Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveGreg Woodbury — Direct/Cross
520 linesWhereupon, GREG WOODBURY having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified under oath as follows:
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, Mr. Lally. Whenever you're ready.
MR. LALLY: Thank you, Your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Good afternoon, sir.
MR. WOODBURY: Good afternoon.
MR. LALLY: Could you please state your name and spell your last name for the jury?
MR. WOODBURY: Greg Woodbury, W-O-O-D-B-U-R-Y.
MR. LALLY: And what do you do for work, sir?
MR. WOODBURY: I'm a lieutenant paramedic on the Canton Fire Department.
MR. LALLY: And how long have you been a member of the Canton Fire Department?
MR. WOODBURY: About 24 years now.
MR. LALLY: And how long have you had the rank of lieutenant within the Canton Fire Department?
MR. WOODBURY: That's been eight years now.
MR. LALLY: Now, prior to working with the Canton Fire Department, what, if any, other work did you have within that same sort of field?
MR. WOODBURY: Prior to being on Canton Fire, I was an EMT/paramedic in the North Shore area.
MR. LALLY: If you could, with regard to your working as a paramedic and a firefighter, specifically as being a paramedic, what, if any, sort of specialized training did you receive in regard to, or certifications did you receive in regard to, being a paramedic?
MR. WOODBURY: So after I got my EMT, when I went to paramedic school, I went to Northeastern University. It was a one-year full-time program.
MR. LALLY: And, following -- you successfully completed that program; is that correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And is there any sort of continuing educational component or recertification component in regard to your paramedic certification?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. Every two years, paramedics have to recertified. We are required to get so many hours of continuing education to recertify every two years.
MR. LALLY: Now, if I could turn your attention to the date of January 28th, 2022, into January 29th of 2022.
MR. WOODBURY: Uh-huh.
MR. LALLY: Were you working with the Canton Fire Department on that date?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And what kind of shift were you working on that occasion, if you recall?
MR. WOODBURY: It was a 24-hour shift.
MR. LALLY: And a 24-hour shift within the Canton Fire Department is what to what?
MR. WOODBURY: It's 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. the next day.
MR. LALLY: Now, turning your attention to the 29th, at what point do you sort of get up and start to begin your day at the fire station?
MR. WOODBURY: So a normal day -- the beginning of the shift you're talking about?
MR. LALLY: The second day of the shift.
MR. WOODBURY: Okay. So the second part of the shift. Normally, we get up at six with the officers, but I got up a little earlier then because we had the snowstorm coming in. So I had to make sure everything was shoveled. I got up at about maybe five. I checked the apron or the area in front of the station and made sure the walkways were clear.
MR. LALLY: And, when you got up to check that, what, if anything, did you discover?
MR. WOODBURY: It had been snowing. There was blizzard-type conditions coming in. So there was a decent level of snowfall. Let me see. Maybe two, three inches on the ground at that time.
MR. LALLY: And, as far as with reference to that, what, if anything, did you do to --
JUDGE CANNONE: I think we can move quickly through this part. Cleaning the apron --
MR. LALLY: Yes. No, no. I wasn't getting to that, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: As far as that particular day or that shift, how were you assigned within the firehouse?
MR. WOODBURY: I was the lieutenant on Engine 4.
MR. LALLY: And, with respect to that, at some point shortly after 6:00 a.m., did you receive a dispatch to a call?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. We were dispatched to a call fora person in the snow.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And did you respond to that call, sir?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes, I did.
MR. LALLY: And you were assigned to the engine; is that correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And who, if anyone else, was assigned to the engine that day with you on that shift?
MR. WOODBURY: So we had Katie McLaughlin and Frank Walsh were my two engine crew.
MR. LALLY: And, in addition to yourself and your engine, what, if any, other sort of vehicles or apparatus respond to that call?
MR. WOODBURY: Ambulance 1 was responding with us. So that was Tony Flematti, Matt Kelly and Tim Nuttall had also hopped on the ambulance. He was coming in for the shift in the morning. He came in early to beat the storm.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall where the call was in regard to what the address was?
MR. WOODBURY: I don't remember the address offhand, but it was not that far away in the district.
MR. LALLY: And, when you arrived in the engine, when you first arrived on scene, aS you were arriving on scene, what, if anything, did you sort of see upon your arrival?
MR. WOODBURY: So the police were already there. We were approaching the scene. I could see several people off to the side in the yard doing something. So went to investigate that.
MR. LALLY: And, when you say "off to the side," was that to your left, to your right or something else?
MR. WOODBURY: So when I was approaching the street, it was on the left-hand side.
MR. LALLY: And you indicated you see some group of people; is that correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. There was a few people around. I don't remember exactly how many and what they were doing.
MR. LALLY: When you start to make your way over there, what, if any -- when you arrive on scene --
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: -- what is sort of the first thing that you do?
MR. WOODBURY: So we went to evaluate the patient. I believe someone had started CPR prior to us getting there. So we went to continue that.
MR. LALLY: When you say “someone had started CPR prior to you" --
MR. WOODBURY: I don't remember the particular individual that was doing it as we arrived.
MR. LALLY: Okay. My only question, sir, is so it's someone outside of your department, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And do you know if it was one of the police officers or someone else?
MR. WOODBURY: I don't remember.
MR. LALLY: Now, obviously, your dispatched in response to an unresponsive male, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And, at the time that you're arriving on scene, you Say you see sort of a cluster of people. Were you able to see that unresponsive male at that point?
MR. WOODBURY: Not in the vehicle. Not until I exited the vehicle.
MR. LALLY: And, at some point much later and subsequently, did you come to learn the identity of the unresponsive male or the patient that you were involved with?
MR. WOODBURY: Afterwards, they told me. Yes. At the time, I did not know.
MR. LALLY: And what did you learn his name to be subsequently?
MR. WOODBURY: I'm sorry. I'ma little nervous. I'm blanking right now.
MR. LALLY: Was it Mr. John O'Keefe?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. Correct.
MR. LALLY: And, when you first came over to where Mr. O'Keefe was, Mr. O'Keefe was on the ground; is that correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes, he was.
MR. LALLY: And what kind of position was his body in when you first observed it?
MR. WOODBURY: He was lying supine, like on his back. He was parallel to the street, about eight feet away from the snowbank.
MR. LALLY: And, in reference to that as far as the snow was concerned, what, if anything, what, if any, snow did you observe on or around where he was?
MR. WOODBURY: He was covered with snow and there was snow around the area.
MR. LALLY: And so from a treatment of Mr. O'Keefe as a patient, what is sort of the first thing that you did or --
MR. WOODBURY: We started CPR or CCR, sorry, immediately. Someone went to go get a board and get him onto that so we can get him onto the stretcher and move him to the ambulance. And then someone else was trying to get the backstory, trying to figure out the scenario, what we're dealing with.
MR. LALLY: Okay. If I could just stop you for a moment, Sir.
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: You mentioned CCR; is that correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Okay. So what is the difference between CCR versus CPR?
MR. WOODBURY: CPR is cardiopulmonary resuscitation. So that is helping someone breathe. CCR is when we first get to a scene -- they changed the protocols a little while ago. So we don't have to give respirations right away. We can just do compressions. It's a little more effective to get the blood flowing guicker.
MR. LALLY: Thank you, Sir. So your involvement in patient care, sort of what was that during that initial phase when Mr. O'Keefe is supine on the ground? What was your involvement in patient care at that point?
MR. WOODBURY: I was assisting with the CPR and making sure everyone else is doing their best. As lieutenant, I kind of manage the other people and make sure everyone is on target, doing what they're supposed to be doing.
MR. LALLY: And, during that initial time that you're outside in the area where Mr. O'Keefe is on the ground, what, if any, observations did you make as far as injuries to Mr. O'Keefe at that time?
MR. WOODBURY: Outside on the ground, he was covered in snow. So we're really not doing any sort of secondary survey initially. The primary concern is the primary survey, which is airway, breathing, circulation. He was not breathing. He had no pulse. So our primary concern is to get that going.
MR. LALLY: And, at some point, are you able to get him from the ground to the back of the ambulance?
MR. WOODBURY: Yeah. We moved him onto a long board, then moved him from the long board onto the stretcher and brought the stretcher over to the ambulance and loaded him in.
MR. LALLY: You mentioned at some point upon your sort of initial arrival at the patient that different people were tasked with different things, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And someone was tasked with trying to get sort of what you termed a backstory; is that correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And why is that important in this kind of --
MR. WOODBURY: So when you have someone unconscious and unresponsive, you want to know when they were last well, the last breathing, last seen, trying to figure out why someone is on the ground. You know, there are different reasons of why they could be there, trying to figure that out. Normally, people don't lay down in the snow. So I'm trying to evaluate the reason the person was unconscious.
MR. LALLY: And so you're able to get Mr. O'Keefe ontoa stretcher and into the back of the ambulance; correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And fair to say the lighting in the back of the ambulance is better than it was outside?
MR. WOODBURY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And, when you're in the back of the ambulance, are you able to then do or participate in that secondary survey you were talking about?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. We started doing secondary survey after we started getting good compressions going. Someone was working on the intubation. And then the procedure is to strip off the clothes and evaluate the person.
MR. LALLY: And, if you recall, how were the clothes removed?
MR. WOODBURY: I don't recall exactly which method we used. Typically, we cut them off, but I'm not sure if they did that or they just pulled them off.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, do you recall as to Mr. O'Keefe's clothing and sort of what he was wearing when he was found?
MR. WOODBURY: I really wasn't paying attention to it. My primary concern is trying to revive him.
MR. LALLY: Okay. So to that secondary survey as far as once you're in the back of the ambulance, what, if anything, did you observe as far aS injuries on Mr. O'Keefe at that time?
MR. WOODBURY: He had a hematoma, a bruising, of the right eye. It was very prominent. There was some scratches on the right forearm. It was mostly external injuries we noted.
MR. LALLY: Now, in addition -- so as far as people on scene, there were a number of different firefighters from your department?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And you mentioned the police were on scene when you arrived; is that correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Okay. So beyond the police and fire, what, if any, other individuals did you observe at some point when you were on scene?
MR. WOODBURY: There was some other civilians there. I really wasn't paying attention to them.
MR. LALLY: Now, with reference to that backstory that you were talking about, at any point in time, either outside of the ambulance or inside of the ambulance, who, if anyone, was tasked by you or anyone else to try and obtain that backstory?
MR. WOODBURY: I think Katie McLaughlin was the one that obtained the backstory.
MR. LALLY: And, if you know, was there any other conversation that you were present for between any of your other firefighters and any of those civilians?
MR. WOODBURY: That was primarily when she related to us the information that she'd obtained. We were trying to figure out the scenario of why he was found unconscious and unresponsive.
MR. LALLY: Let me ask you this: So as far as arrival at the patient when he's on the ground, who gets there first? You and the other individuals in the engine or the firefighters in the ambulance?
MR. WOODBURY: We both responded from the same station at the same time. The engine is in the front, the ambulance usually in the rear. So I believe we pulled over and the ambulance pulled over at the same time as us. I believe C5 went, as well, which is the captain. He was also responding with us.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as the person that Firefighter McLaughlin spoke to, what, if anything, did you know about that person at that time?
MR. WOODBURY: At that time, I knew nothing. I knew that it was someone who had been with him. And she relayed the information of what she had heard to us.
MR. LALLY: And the information that Firefighter McLaughlin, without reference to what it was, but the information that Firefighter McLaughlin was able to obtain, did she communicate that to you and the other firefighters in the ambulance?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. She came into the ambulance and told us what she had heard.
MR. LALLY: As far as the information that Firefighter McLaughlin provided, did that comport with what you were observing as far as injuries to Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. YANNETTI: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. You can lay a foundation.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as, again, the injuries that you observed to Mr. O'Keefe in the back of the ambulance were what?
MR. WOODBURY: It was the bruising of the right eye and the scratches on the forearm.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, did Firefighter McLaughlin indicate to you had been told to her?
MR. WOODBURY: That someone said she had hit him, and he was last seen --
MR. YANNETTI: Objection. Move to strike.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. That will be stricken.
MR. LALLY: May we approach, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
MR. LALLY: So it's hearsay but it's not for the truth of the matter asserted, Your Honor, but the state of mind of this witness as far as his treatment and diagnosis as far as receiving the information not in conformity with what he's observing on the patient and then seeking more information.
JUDGE CANNONE: So you have to lay a foundation for that.
MR. LALLY: I think I did as far as what his observations were.
JUDGE CANNONE: Not sufficient.
MR. LALLY: If I don't have the statement, I can't ask him if it comports with what he's observed.
JUDGE CANNONE: What do you say, Mr. Yannetti?
MR. YANNETTI: Well, first of all, I have a question on the relevance of his state of mind as it pertains to the issues in this trial and -- you know, I think it's just a back-door way to get in some type of hearsay corroboration of Ms. McLaughlin's testimony.
MR. LALLY: Corroboration? The jury has already heard from Ms. McLaughlin as to what the statements were. We've also already heard those statements as related by two other witnesses separately.
JUDGE CANNONE: So what is it exactly? It's a good time for our lunch break. What is it exactly that you want to ask him?
MR. LALLY: I want to ask him what he was told as far as what Firefighter McLaughlin learned from this person.
JUDGE CANNONE: And why do you say that's not hearsay?
MR. LALLY: Again, the follow-up question that I'd like to ask about is whether or not that explained to him what the injuries were that he observed, were purportedly what he was observing.
JUDGE CANNONE: For what purpose, though?
MR. LALLY: Again, I think it goes to his treatment in relation to Mr. O'Keefe and how that was handled.
JUDGE CANNONE: What do you say, Mr. Yannetti?
MR. YANNETTI: Well, I say that, you know, we haven't received any notice that this witness would be offered as an expert witness. I think there has been a lack of foundation in terms of his qualification to give an opinion of the status of the injuries and whether they comport with what he's viewing. He's not an expert pathologist or he hasn't been qualified in any way. So I would object on that basis, as well.
JUDGE CANNONE: Isn't this what you all put in through another paramedic, that I did tell Mr. Jackson he needed to lay a different foundation? All right. We will take a lunch recess. When we come back, you can argue it to me.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
JUDGE CANNONE: Jurors, we always try and check and make sure that your lunch is here before we take a break. I'm told that it is. So we will take a lunch break. We'll see everybody here ready to start right at 2:00 o'clock.
(Whereupon, the jury is escorted from the courtroom and the luncheon recess is taken.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
(Court resumes.)
(Defendant present. Jury present.)
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Let's get the lieutenant back up here.
COURT CLERK: Sir, I remind you, you're still under oath.
MR. WOODBURY: Okay.
JUDGE CANNONE: Go right ahead, Mr. Lally.
MR. LALLY: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: So Lieutenant Woodbury, turning your attention back to the treatment of Mr. O'Keefe in the back of the ambulance, okay?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: With respect to that, you testified that you don't recall sort of specifically anything as far as clothing for Mr. O'Keefe; is that correct?
MR. WOODBURY: I was not paying attention to the clothing.
MR. LALLY: And so to that point, what were you paying attention to at that point?
MR. WOODBURY: Primarily, the big issue was doing the CCR and then the CPR. We're trying to resuscitate the person as best we can. We know with a hypothermic patient, it's very difficult. It's a longer treatment protocol than a typical cardiac arrest, because we have to do the CPR for an extended period of time. We have to get the patient warmed up. So the clothing is just quickly removed versus examined or looked at. And the focus was on getting compressions done. Someone was trying to intubate, getting a line started. So that's what we are mainly focused on.
MR. LALLY: And, as far as treatment is concerned, what, if any, sort of interplay or intersection is there between a cardiac arrest and a hypothermic patient?
MR. WOODBURY: When someone is hypothermic and in cardiac arrest, we can't declare them dead or passed on until they've been warmed up. A lot of times with hypothermic patients, they can appear to be dead when they're still actually alive. So there have been instances where people have woken up in morgues that were hypothermic when their body warmed up a little bit. So we have to be very cautious, very careful about, you know, treating them as much as we can, as carefully as we can. You can't shake them too much. You can't move them too much. So it's getting the blood circulating and then starting ventilating after a few minutes.
MR. LALLY: Turning back to the CCR, the chest compressions, that you were talking about, what, if any, sort of, based on your training and experience, what, if any, sort of protocols are -- well, let me ask you this: Were you doing chest compressions throughout the entirety of this interaction with the patient, Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. WOODBURY: No. Chest compressions, most people do them about two minutes. After two minutes -- it's very tiring to do chest compressions. So we swap off every few minutes. So a different person will come in and do the compressions. They'll do it for a little while and go to a different task. Someone else will come in and do compressions.
MR. LALLY: And is that sort of the protocol that you followed in this instance with regard to Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. Yes. We were rotating the compressions.
MR. LALLY: And the ambulance at some point leaves the scene and goes to a hospital; is that correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And do you know what hospital Mr. O'Keefe was transported to?
MR. WOODBURY: Good Samaritan Medical Center.
MR. LALLY: And did you go along for that ambulance ride?
MR. WOODBURY: No, I did not.
MR. LALLY: Where did you go from there?
MR. WOODBURY: So as the lieutenant on the engine, I stayed with the engine. I detailed my two other engine personnel to the ambulance. So they went with the two engine personnel, the two regular people on the ambulance, as well as an additional person. Tim Nuttall was the extra person for that one.
MR. LALLY: So you take the engine and go where?
MR. WOODBURY: I went back to the station.
MR. LALLY: And at some point shortly after that, are you called back to the roadway of Fairview Road?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: In the same general area of Fairview Road?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. Same address.
MR. LALLY: And how is it that you get from the station back to Fairview?
MR. WOODBURY: So we had struck a box to cover the personnel that we had detailed. That means we send out a page, looking for additional people to come in. We had Sam Poch come in. So he was my engine driver, and I was in the lieutenant's seat. We responded back in Engine 4.
MR. LALLY: And the ambulance that had been there on Fairview Road with you previously was at Good Samaritan still, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. A call like that takes an extended period of time, even at the hospital to assist them there. So we had to get an ambulance from Station 2.
MR. LALLY: And, if you know, who was on that ambulance from Station 2?
MR. WOODBURY: That was Jason Becker and Dan Whitley.
MR. LALLY: Now, with reference to this particular call, what, if anything, was this second dispatch with regard to?
MR. WOODBURY: So this call was for a Section 12, which is someone having a psychological issue.
MR. LALLY: And do you know who that Section 12 was in regard to?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. For Karen Read.
MR. LALLY: And, at some point, you go back to the scene along with the engine and the second ambulance from Station 2?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. So the engine got there first, the ambulance coming from another station. So it was a couple extra minutes before they got there.
MR. LALLY: And, when you arrived, who, if anyone else, is sort of on scene on Fairview Road at that point?
MR. WOODBURY: The police were still on scene. They had never left. So it was me, Sam Poch and the police. So I went up and tried to get the backstory of why we're doing a Section 12 and what was going on.
MR. LALLY: And, when you first arrive, without regard to what was said to you, but who, if anyone, do you speak with to sort of try to gain this information or backstory?
MR. WOODBURY: When I got onto the scene, I talked to the police that was there.
JUDGE CANNONE: Who did you talk to? Police officer?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. The police officer. Yes. I'm sorry.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: And do you recall specifically who that police officer was that you spoke to?
MR. WOODBURY: I really did not pay attention to the individual officer.
MR. LALLY: And, at some point, you have a conversation, and what, if any, conversation do you have with the patient in this case, the defendant, Ms. Read?
MR. WOODBURY: So it was -- when we identified Karen Read as the patient, the ambulance arrived shortly after. We started talking to her and trying to get her into the ambulance to talk to her further.
MR. LALLY: And, just to be clear, for the record, when you say "Ms. Read," do you see her in the courtroom today?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. She's right over there.
MR. LALLY: I'd just ask the record reflect identification of the defendant by the witness.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Now, with respect to the defendant, Ms. Read, where is she sort of when you first make contact with her on scene when you come back?
MR. WOODBURY: In the general vicinity of where the police cars are.
MR. LALLY: And what is sort of the purpose of this initial conversation that you're having with Ms. Read?
MR. WOODBURY: For a Section 12, that's when someone has made threats to harm themselves or others. So I just had to judge her mental ability at the time and see if she was a theat to us and how much of a threat she was to herself.
MR. LALLY: So just a quick evaluation to see how her behavior was.
MR. LALLY: And what, if any, observations did you make of her during your quick conversation?
MR. WOODBURY: She appeared very distraught, very upset, you know, initially, just trying to explain the situation to her about going to the hospital with the Section 12. And she was resistant to that.
MR. LALLY: So when you say she was resistant to that, what, if anything, did she say or do to communicate --
MR. WOODBURY: Well, she did not want to go --
MR. YANNETTI: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Hold on. You cannot talk over each other.
MR. WOODBURY: I'm sorry.
JUDGE CANNONE: The objection is overruled.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Please go ahead, sir.
MR. WOODBURY: So what was the question again, please?
MR. LALLY: So what, if anything, did -- when you say she was resistant, what, if anything, did she communicate to you or observations did you make in regard to that?
MR. WOODBURY: She did not want to go to the hospital, and she didn't think she needed any assistance.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, are you sort of -- you mentioned you were explaining sort of the process to her. What, if anything, are you saying in that explanation?
MR. WOODBURY: Well, once a Section 12 gets written -- it's written by the police. Once it's written, we are reguired to transport to the hospital. Section 12 means that they believe you're a threat to yourself or others. So you have to get evaluated at the hospital by the hospital staff there to see how mentally stable you are.
MR. LALLY: Now, at this time of this conversation, what, if anything, did you know as far as a relationship between Ms. Read and the prior patient, Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. WOODBURY: I know they had a relationship. I wasn't sure if they were married or engaged or what their status was. But I knew she did have a strong relationship with him.
MR. LALLY: And, in reference to Mr. O'Keefe during your conversation with Ms. Read, what, if anything, was she asking or saying in reference to Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. WOODBURY: She kept repeating, is he dead, is he dead. She seemed very concerned about that. We were trying to explain to her that we cannot declare him dead. He's being evaluated. He's being treated. They're trying to treat him the best they can.
MR. LALLY: And, as far as when she's stating these things to you, as far as sort of tonality of her voice while she's saying these things to you, can you describe that?
MR. WOODBURY: She was very up and down. It was a repetitive conversation with her. She was obviously experiencing a lot of different emotions. Her emotional state was all over the place.
MR. LALLY: And, as far as this sort of second time that you're on scene, about how long a period of time are we talking about?
MR. WOODBURY: That was about 15 or 20 minutes.
MR. LALLY: And, as far as your conversation with Ms. Read, where did she go? Did you stay with her sort of the entire time that she was on scene that second time or --
MR. WOODBURY: Because she was resistant, we were trying to get her to voluntarily go. If someone voluntarily goes, even with the section written, they are released a lot guicker. So we are trying to convince her to go, be willing to go with us versus being forced. If at some point we have to actually force her to go against her will, then it's going to be a much longer hospital stay. So our main goal with staying on the scene so long was to try to get her willingly to go. It just makes her experience much better.
MR. LALLY: Just to be clear, when you say "we," who specifically are you referring to?
MR. WOODBURY: It was me, Dan Whitley and Jason Becker were the ones talking to her in the back of the ambulance.
MR. LALLY: And, when you clear or when you leave the scene, where is Ms. Read at that point?
MR. WOODBURY: So the ambulance transported her to Good Samaritan. We also detailed Sam Poch as the driver.
MR. LALLY: So the gentleman who had driven or the firefighter who had driven your engine to the scene then drives the ambulance away?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: Would you say his name again, please?
MR. WOODBURY: Sam Poch.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sam what?
MR. WOODBURY: Sam Poch.
JUDGE CANNONE: Spell it, please, his last name?
MR. WOODBURY: P-O-C-H is the last name.
MR. LALLY: Thank you, sir. I have no further questions, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Mr. Yannetti?
MR. YANNETTI: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Good afternoon, sir.
MR. WOODBURY: Good afternoon.
MR. YANNETTI: Mr. Woodbury, you and I have never met or spoken, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: No.
MR. YANNETTI: I know you said you were nervous. So I'm going to try and make this fairly brief, sir.
MR. WOODBURY: Okay. Thank you.
MR. YANNETTI: I just have a couple of areas that I'd like to go over. So with regard to your interaction with Karen Read and what you actually heard from her mouth, that's sort of where I want to concentrate as opposed to anything that anybody else may have said to you about what they believed she might have said. Okay?
MR. WOODBURY: Okay.
MR. YANNETTI: And it seems to me that your main interaction with her was not when the initial call came in to respond to, you know, a man who was unresponsive in the snow. It was after you went back to the station in the engine and then came back to the scene for the purposes of the Section 12 as you described it. Would that be fair to say?
MR. WOODBURY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And, when you came back to the scene for the Section 12, it's also fair to say that the Section 12 issue was your focus, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: You had an order in hand, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: The police had it, and they gave it to us when we got there.
MR. YANNETTI: Right. Okay. So you got an order in hand once you got there?
MR. WOODBURY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Which is what you expected to happen, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And your focus at that point is, okay -- and I don't want to be, you know, too flip, but we can do this the easy way or the hard way. Is that a fair characterization?
MR. WOODBURY: That is one way to put it.
MR. YANNETTI: And you wanted to do it the easy way?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you wanted to persuade Karen Read that she should want to do it the easy way, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And, after some conversation back and forth where she was initially resistant, she eventually agreed, yes, I'll -- not to put words in your mouth or hers, but to the effect of, yes, we'll do this the easy way, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: We did get her to agree to transport.
MR. YANNETTI: And, with regard to her state of mind, I believe you had testified that she appeared to be very distraught?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes. Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Going through a lot of emotions?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Grief stricken?
MR. WOODBURY: That's one of them, yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Hysterical at times?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Raising her voice at times?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Crying at times?
MR. WOODBURY: I didn't see any actual tears, but --
MR. YANNETTI: That type of --
MR. WOODBURY: -- that type of emotional display.
MR. YANNETTI: All right. So in terms of the only commentary that you heard with regard to her feelings or questions regarding John O'Keefe, it was the statements that you heard repetitively over and over and over again, is he dead, is he dead, is he dead, is he dead?
MR. WOODBURY: That was some of the things she was saying, yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Your Honor, may we approach Sidebar briefly?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
MR. YANNETTI: My next and final line of cross-examination will be with regard to the injuries to his arm that this witness testified about. And the reason I'm approaching sidebar is I would like to show him the autopsy photo that the Court has previously seen, which depicts the injuries that he's described. Given the sensitive nature of it, I didn't want to display that in open court without getting the Court's permission first.
JUDGE CANNONE: What does the Commonwealth say?
MR. LALLY: As far as that photograph, I would anticipate something along --
JUDGE CANNONE: Speak up.
MR. LALLY: I'm sorry. I would anticipate something along the same lines that I would be seeking to introduce at a later time.
JUDGE CANNONE: Is this what he saw, though, in that short time in the ambulance?
MR. LALLY: That, I don't know.
MR. YANNETTI: Well, he saw those injuries. Whether they had more blood on them or not --
JUDGE CANNONE: These are obviously going to come into evidence.
MR. YANNETTI: They are.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm just not sure this is the right witness.
MR. YANNETTI: Well, I want to explore that, Judge. And, if I fail to lay a foundation, I will mark them for I.D. But I want to show it to him to see if he will identify it.
JUDGE CANNONE: Why do you need three?
MR. YANNETTI: I don't.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. I am going to mark one for identification now. If he adopts it, you can put it in through him.
MR. YANNETTI: Great.
JUDGE CANNONE: If he doesn't adopt it, you can't --
MR. YANNETTI: I understand.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Jackson, please come back.
MR. YANNETTI: What is the letter for I.D.?
COURT REPORTER: That will be "N" for I.D.
JUDGE CANNONE: Thank you. Do you intend to put it up on the screen afterwards?
MR. YANNETTI: I would, yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So get him to adopt it.
MR. YANNETTI: Yes.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Lieutenant Woodbury, on your direct examination, you testified a bit. I don't want to block the jury here. I'm sorry. You testified a bit about the injuries that you observed on John O'Keefe when you first arrived at the scene, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You testified about the swollen eye?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you also testified about the scratch marks that you saw on his forearm, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: I'd like to show you -- I'm going to approach in a minute to show you what has been marked "M" for Identification. And, when I hand it to you, please keep it to yourself and look at it and then look up at me when you're done. Okay?
MR. WOODBURY: (Witness complies.)
MR. YANNETTI: Having reviewed "M" for Identification, do you recognize what that depicts?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: What does it depict?
MR. WOODBURY: That is Mr. O'Keefe's right arm.
MR. YANNETTI: All right. Does that photograph appear to be a fair and accurate representation of the scratch marks that you observed on January 29th of 2022, sir?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: I would offer that, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: That will be our next exhibit. We'll have to maybe renumber. Counsel, before you leave today, we have to figure out how to keep everything straight.
MR. YANNETTI: Understood.
(Whereupon, photograph of arm was entered and marked Exhibit "M" for Identification.)
(Whereupon, photograph, previously marked "M" for Identification, was entered and marked Exhibit No. 382 in Evidence.)
COURT REPORTER: That will be Exhibit 382 for now.
MR. YANNETTI: And, with the Court's permission, Your Honor, may I have that published on the screen for the jury?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Now, on direct examination, Lieutenant -- hang on -- I mean, if I could have a moment. I'm going to try to get out of your way so everybody can see. With regard to the injuries that you've described on direct examination, Lieutenant, I believe you had mainly concentrated --
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm sorry. Please take this down for a minute. I need to see counsel at sidebar. Jurors, feel free to stand up and stretch.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
JUDGE CANNONE: What I hadn't noticed quite as clearly is the body shows up tremendously on the screen, and we've got a photographer over there aiming his camera at it.
MR. YANNETTI: I see.
JUDGE CANNONE: You've got your I.T. guy. Can you block that out?
MR. JACKSON: Yes. We'll do that right now. Can we have 30 seconds?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. So we can take the photo --
MR. JACKSON: It's electronic.
JUDGE CANNONE: I understand that, but just so you know exactly where, just the arm.
MR. YANNETTI: Just show that to him. Just show him what needs to be cropped off.
(Whereupon the sidebar conference concluded.)
JUDGE CANNONE: Jurors, feel free to stretch if you want.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Yannetti, are you all set to put it back up on the screen? Do you have any other questions that you can move on to, Mr. Yannetti?
MR. YANNETTI: Well, I want to refer to the photo when I ask them. I don't have many questions left, but I did want to use the photo.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. This is the only area of inquiry?
MR. YANNETTI: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Jurors, why don't we take a five- minute recess.
(Whereupon, the jury is escorted from the courtroom for a brief recess.)
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll see counsel at sidebar and make use of this time, please.
(Whereupon, there is a sidebar conference as follows:
JUDGE CANNONE: So when you get cropped if we could also print a copy of that and exchange it for --
MR. YANNETTI: Definitely. Yeah.
JUDGE CANNONE: -- what's been produced?
MR. YANNETTI: We wanted to print it --
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. YANNETTI: We wanted to print it so that you could see it before we put it up there.
JUDGE CANNONE: That's great. And then we will Swap the exhibits.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. That makes sense. Yes?
MR. LALLY: Your Honor, while we are here, I'm sorry, just with reference to what the Court had said once before as far as Exhibit 160, so Ms. Gilman was able to print out a redacted copy --
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. LALLY: -- of both run reports for Mr. O'Keefe and for Ms. Read.
JUDGE CANNONE: Oh. Is Ms. Read's going into evidence now?
MR. LALLY: With the next witness, probably.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. LALLY: So I just wanted to give counsel an opportunity to look at them and the Court, obviously, before I did that.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. That's great. So we'll Swap another exhibit later. We are going to need some time today. I need you to let us know what exhibits you have referred to by number during the course of your questioning because it really does not make sense to have 308, 309 when they should be 18, 19 and 20. So I will allow counsel in further questioning to say what was previously marked Exhibit 308 and is now Exhibit 17, to do it that way.
MR. LALLY: Okay.
JUDGE CANNONE: But, if you've already -- we will wait until the end of today. So if you already intend to refer to the prior exhibits by their numbers, we will do that for today.
MR. LALLY: Okay.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay? All right? So why don't we -- oh, is he ready? Okay. Why don't you go over there. All right. So we are going to replace --
COURT CLERK: Actually, wasn't it introduce as 382?
MR. YANNETTI: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: And then it's coming in, but it's "M" and then 382.
COURT CLERK: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Gotcha.
JUDGE CANNONE: So we are replacing what's previously been marked for identification "M" and 362 with what I have in my hand. And everyone is in agreement with that?
MR. LALLY: Yes, Your Honor.
MR. YANNETTI: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: It's 382.
MR. LALLY: It's 382.
JUDGE CANNONE: That's what I said, didn't I?
MR. YANNETTI: No. You said 362.
JUDGE CANNONE: Oh, I'm sorry. 382. All right. So this can go back up on the board. Do you all need a couple of minutes?
MR. JACKSON: We're ready.
JUDGE CANNONE: Paul, did we disrupt that trial for this?
COURT OFFICER: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So why don't we bring them right back? All right. So everyone is in agreement with that?
MR. LALLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: Why don't we deal with Mr. Lally's. We will replace the John O'Keefe report -- I don't remember the number -- later today. But, for now, this Ms. Read report, by agreement, will go into evidence as is?
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. So we will replace this later. We are going to have to spend a few minutes doing that anyway.
MR. JACKSON: Okay.
COURT CLERK: And, for the record, Your Honor, it was Exhibit 160.
JUDGE CANNONE: The O'Keefe report, Jim?
COURT CLERK: It was marked "G" for Identification.
JUDGE CANNONE: Nancy, do you want to change this too? "G" for I.D. and 160 is now being replaced with new "G" for I.D. and 160. Everyone is in agreement with that?
MR. LALLY: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Are you in agreement with that?
MR. YANNETTI: I'm sorry. I was in conference with my co-counsel.
JUDGE CANNONE: Changing the exhibits now with the new exhibits.
MR. YANNETTI: Yes. Yes. I would like to take the other exhibit back in case -- I'm not going to publish that but if I wanted to ask the witness a question about that.
JUDGE CANNONE: What exhibit?
MR. YANNETTI: The one that we are replacing. The one that was "M" for Identification originally.
MR. LALLY: Mr. Yannetti, what she was asking you about was the run report, not the photograph.
JUDGE CANNONE: Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. No. We are fine with that. Sorry.
COURT CLERK: I do have a question. "M" has been replaced.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
COURT CLERK: So what is this? This is the original. So is that also going to be marked for identification?
COURT REPORTER: I'm missing a lot of this. Hold on.
JUDGE CANNONE: We need to mark what we are replacing for identification.
COURT REPORTER: That would be "N" for Identification.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. "N," as in Nancy?
COURT REPORTER: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: So 160 that was previously "G" but now has been replaced.
COURT REPORTER: And that sticker will go right over the "G."
JUDGE CANNONE: Thank you.
(Whereupon, Exhibits 160 and Exhibit "G" were remarked.)
JUDGE CANNONE: And then the photograph that was replaced, this that replaced the old one -- where is the old one?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: It's right here.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. So we need to mark that.
COURT CLERK: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So this will be --
COURT OFFICER: All rise for the jury.
(Whereupon, the jury was enters the courtroom and is seated in the jury box.)
JUDGE CANNONE: -- "O" for Identification. All right. Thank you.
MR. YANNETTI: Thank you.
(Whereupon, photograph of arm, Exhibit No. 382 was replaced with a redacted copy in Evidence.)
(Whereupon, photograph of arm, previously marked Exhibit "M," was replaced with a redacted copy in Evidence.)
(Whereupon, unredacted report previously remarked Exhibit No. 160 was entered and marked Exhibit "N" for Identification.)
(Whereupon, redacted version previously marked Exhibit No. 160 in Evidence was remarked.)
(Whereupon, redacted version previously marked Exhibit "G" for Identification was remarked.)
(Whereupon, unredacted Exhibit "M" for Identification and Exhibit No. 382 in Evidence was marked Exhibit "O" for Identification.)
(Court resumes.)
(Defendant present. Jury present.)
JUDGE CANNONE: Jurors, I can assure you we are in really good shape. It's an organizational Situation that I have to deal with. So we've been dealing with that. We appreciate your patience, and we are in good shape. Mr. Yannetti, if you need the exhibit, it's here.
MR. YANNETTI: Terrific. May I have it published again on the screen, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Now, Lieutenant, with regard to the injuries that you observed, did you notice any lividity on the body when you were looking at John O'Keefe?
MR. WOODBURY: Being hypothermic, he was very pale overall. So the skin wasn't pinked yet. So it's hard to really judge the rest of the skin until it's warmed up and much later into the scene.
MR. YANNETTI: You are familiar with the term "lividity," though?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Can you just explain that for the jury?
MR. WOODBURY: That's like bruising.
MR. YANNETTI: Bruising?
MR. WOODBURY: So the pooling of blood in the lower sections. So for like a cardiac arrest patient, when they have lividity, it looks like bruising on the underside where all the blood has pooled.
MR. YANNETTI: Right.
MR. WOODBURY: We didn't really notice that.
MR. YANNETTI: But it's not actually bruising from an injury. It's just the blood being drawn down by gravity?
MR. WOODBURY: It's the same thing. Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: One at a time, please.
MR. WOODBURY: Sorry. Yes. So it appears like bruising. And bruising is basically pooling of blood under the skin. So lividity is just gravity-fed pooling of blood under the skin. It usually happens in the section of the body that is lowest.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: I see. Okay. Now, with regard to the scratches that you've testified about and that you now observe on Exhibit 382, I believe -- and you'll correct me if I am wrong. But I believe your testimony on direct examination was that you observed them in the forearm area, correct?
MR. WOODBURY: It was the right like forearm to arm. Like right up here. Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. I guess that's my point.
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: It wasn't just on the --
MR. WOODBURY: Not just. It was the arm area. Mostly what I noticed was forearm, but there was some around there.
MR. YANNETTI: So it wasn't just below the elbow?
MR. WOODBURY: No. It was not just below the elbow.
MR. YANNETTI: There was some above the elbow, as well?
MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: That's consistent with Exhibit 382?
MR. WOODBURY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: If I may just have a moment, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: No further questions.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Lally, anything further?
MR. LALLY: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Lieutenant, thank you very much, sir. You're all set.
MR. WOODBURY: Thank you.
(Whereupon the witness is excused.)
JUDGE CANNONE: Your next witness, Mr. Lally?
MR. LALLY: Yes, Your Honor. The Commonwealth would call Mr. Daniel Whitley to the stand.