Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveJulie Nagel — Direct/Cross
116 linesP R O C E E D I N G S May 15, 2024
(Court in session at 9:12 a.m.)
(Defendant present. Jury not present.)
COURT CLERK: 22-117, the Commonwealth versus Karen Read. Counsel, would you come to sidebar, please?
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
MR. LALLY: Good morning, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Good morning.
MR. JACKSON: Good morning, Judge.
JUDGE CANNONE: You have to stop being late. Really.
MR. JACKSON: I just want to put very briefly on the record.
JUDGE CANNONE: Why don't you step aside.
MR. YANNETTI: Of courses. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I just wanted to put very briefly on the record with regard to Ms. Kun. We want to interpose an objection just for the record in terms in terms of her testifying before the foundation has been properly laid. I sort of expected it. I knew that she was going to be taken out of order. Mr. Lally let us know that, but I expected --
JUDGE CANNONE: Because of a (c) Is that what it is?
MR. LALLY: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I have no problem with that whatsoever. I just want to make sure that I didn't waive any objection if the later foundation for her testimony is not established. I think it will be.
JUDGE CANNONE: If it's not established, move to strike it.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. That's what I wanted to make sure of. That's all. Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: While we are here, one more thing, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure. Of course. Move aside, Mr. Lally.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Based on the Court's order yesterday, the Commonwealth did review the Professional Rules of Code of Conduct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: The Commonwealth did not find any rule that pertained to the situation or the issue that defense counsel raised. The closest thing would have been Professional Rule of Conduct 3.4(a), discussing an attorney's duty not to obstruct evidence. That's not what the Commonwealth did nor intended to do, and there's no cases citing that rule for any proposition or supposed issue raised by the defense. However, given the Court's broad discretion, the Commonwealth, myself and ADA Lally will abide by the Court's order as it likely falls within the Judge's broad discretion pursuant to Criminal Procedure Rule 21 and sequestration. So myself and ADA Lally will abide by the Court order as I presume defense counsel will, as well.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Unlike all of you, I have never been a prosecutor. All right. Are you still moving for that, Mr. --
MR. JACKSON: Yes, Your Honor. We are. Anybody from the Commonwealth's team, their investigators, their victim advocates, the trial team, themselves. Nobody from the Commonwealth, just like nobody from the defense, their victim advocates, the trial team, themselves, nobody from the Commonwealth, just like nobody from the defense should be engaging a witness who is currently under oath during the breaks, you know, overnight and things of that nature. It's just not done.
JUDGE CANNONE: I think investigators is a little too broad, police not allowed to talk to witnesses.
MR. JACKSON: Not while they are on the stand, not while they are under oath.
JUDGE CANNONE: What do you say?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: There is no rule that suggests that. If that's the Court's order, the Commonwealth would abide by it. However, I feel as if victim witness advocates need to be able to speak to the witnesses. As it came up in this case, you know, our witness was confronted about a conversation they had with a member of the Commonwealth, and their answer was they asked me if I wanted any water. So I think to effectively, you know, move the trial forward, you know, advocates or witness people need to be able to ask people do they know where the bathroom is or you're going to be next up in five minutes. Just normal ability to facilitate the time management of the trial.
MR. JACKSON: To be clear, that's not what I'm objecting to. I'm objecting to any interviews or discussion of the substance of their testimony. Asking where the bathroom is, what time do you need to be here, can I have some water, I have no problem with that.
JUDGE CANNONE: How long your testimony is going to be.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. I mean, you're going to be another hour, I have no problem with that. I just don't think it's appropriate to talk to them about "I'm going to ask you these questions. I expect Mr. Jackson" --
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. I don't think that's proper either. I may be wrong. But I do know sometimes things come up during trial that a police officer has to go out and find a witness or approach a witness or something based on something that's been said. So I don't want to tie the strings of law enforcement. I was concerned you raised it regarding the lawyer, Mr. Lally, and that's what I addressed.
MR. JACKSON: Right.
JUDGE CANNONE: So, Mr. Lally, you're not to flag the witnesses what you're going to examine them on or do redirect on or any other substance of what you're going to do.
MR. LALLY: Understood, Your Honor. Just so the record is clear, that is not what happened in this particular case. I went to tell the witness, this one being Mr. Albert, how much I anticipated he would be left on the stand. He asked me a question as far as are you going to cover this in your direct. And I said "yes." There was no substantive conversation about I'm going to ask you this or Mr. Jackson may ask you that or anything along the lines. But, whatever the Court's ruling is, obviously, the Commonwealth will abide by whatever the Court tells us to do.
JUDGE CANNONE: My understanding has always been when a witness is on the stand, you can't discuss anything of any substance with that witness.
MR. LALLY: I understand.
JUDGE CANNONE: And that's what I always thought and that's what I believe. We will leave it at that.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
JUDGE CANNONE: Good morning. Would you bring the jurors in?
(Whereupon, the jury is escorted into the courtroom and seated in the jury box.)
COURT CLERK: 22-117, Commonwealth versus Karen Read.
JUDGE CANNONE: Good morning, again, counsel. Good morning, Ms. Read. Good morning, jurors. We appreciate you being ready. We have just been delayed. I have to ask you those three questions. Were you all able to follow the instruction to refrain from discussing this case? Everyone said "yes" or nodded affirmatively. Did you also follow the instruction to refrain from doing any independent research or investigation into this case? Everyone said "yes" or nodded affirmatively. Did anyone happen to see, hear or read anything about this case? Everyone said "no" or shook their head. Thank you. May we have Ms. Nagel, please?
Whereupon, JULIANA NAGEL, Resuming having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified under oath as follows:
JUDGE CANNONE: Thank you. Mr. Lally?
MR. LALLY: Yes, Your Honor. CONTINUED REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Good morning, Ms. Nagel.
MS. NAGEL: Good morning.
MR. LALLY: Just a few questions for you. In regard to the interview or the conversation that you had with Trooper Proctor, were there any other troopers present during the course of that interview or conversation?
MS. NAGEL: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Do you recall who that trooper was?
MS. NAGEL: I can't recall his name, no.
MR. LALLY: Now, if I could turn your attention back to January 29th in the early morning when you were leaving the house on Fairview. You indicated that you saw a dark object in an area of the front lawn; is that correct?
MS. NAGEL: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, you had been through the house at 34 Fairview on several different occasions prior to this date, correct?
MS. NAGEL: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Had you ever been over in that area of that front lawn? Was that an area that was used that you observed by the homeowners or anyone there?
MS. NAGEL: Not really, no.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, do you recall about the lighting in that particular area of the yard?
MS. NAGEL: I mean, it was dark out. But, with the snow, you could see a little bit of the glare.
MR. LALLY: Do you recall any sort of streetlights or anything like that in that area?
MS. NAGEL: I can't recall. No.
MR. LALLY: Now, you see this object which you described as approximately five to six feet long; is that right?
MS. NAGEL: Yes. Correct.
MR. LALLY: In the area of the flagpole; is that correct?
MS. NAGEL: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And, at the time that you saw it, were you expecting or anticipating something over in that area of the yard?
MS. NAGEL: No.
MR. LALLY: And, when you were driving past it, is that the first time that you saw it?
MS. NAGEL: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, if you had realized or had recognized that dark object five to six feet long in the area near the flagpole, had you realized that was a body, what would you have done?
MR. YANNETTI: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MS. NAGEL: I would have, you know, called 911 if I thought it was an actual body and told everybody else in the car, as well.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: And your testimony again was that you put sort of two and two together the following day, correct?
MS. NAGEL: Yes.
MR. LALLY: I have nothing further, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: So if you realized it was a body, you would have called 911, correct?
MS. NAGEL: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And that's because you would have realized that was very important information, correct?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MS. NAGEL: I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question?
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: If you realized it was a body, you would have realized that was very important information, correct?
MS. NAGEL: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And your testimony today is that you realized it was a body the very next day, correct?
MS. NAGEL: The next day after, I had a conversation, yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You didn't call 911 at that point, correct?
MS. NAGEL: I did not, no.
MR. YANNETTI: Did you call the police business line?
MS. NAGEL: I did not, no.
MR. YANNETTI: Did you speak to any police?
MS. NAGEL: No.
MR. YANNETTI: Right. And you would agree with me, Ms. Nagel, that object became five or six feet long yesterday for the first time?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Ask the question differently.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: The first time you mentioned to anybody that that object was five to six feet long was yesterday to this jury, two and a half years after you supposedly saw it, correct?
MS. NAGEL: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Nothing further.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, Ms. Nagel. You are all set. Thank you very much.
MS. NAGEL: Thank you.
(Whereupon, the witness is excused.)
JUDGE CANNONE: Next witness, please, Mr. Lally.
MR. LALLY: Yes, Your Honor. The Commonwealth calls Ms. Teri Kun to the stand.
JUDGE CANNONE: While she is coming in, can I see counsel just about this witness, please? Mr. Jackson, Mr. Yannetti, Ms. Little?
MR. YANNETTI: I'm sorry.