Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveKarina Kolokithas — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross
485 linesWhereupon, KARINA KOLOKITHAS having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Whenever you’re ready, Mr. Lally.
MR. LALLY: Thank you, Your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Good afternoon, ma’am.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Good afternoon.
MR. LALLY: Could you please state your name and spell your last name for the jury?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It’s Karina Kolokithas, K-O-L-O-K-I-T-H-A-S.
MR. LALLY: And where is it that you live, ma’am?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I live in Canton.
MR. LALLY: And how long have you lived in Canton?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We’ve lived in Canton for about 13 years, I’m sorry, 21 years.
MR. LALLY: And, when you say “we,” who, if anyone, do you live in Canton with?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I live with my husband and my two daughters.
MR. LALLY: And what’s your husband’s name?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: His name is Nicholas.
MR. LALLY: And how many daughters do you have?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I have two.
MR. LALLY: And about how old are they?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Eighteen and
MR. LALLY: And do you work, ma’am?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do work.
MR. LALLY: And what do you do for work?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I’m a pharmacist.
MR. LALLY: And your husband works as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He does.
MR. LALLY: And what does he do?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He’s an attorney.
MR. LALLY: Now, if I could turn your attention to January 28th, into January 29th of 2022, do you recall those days?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall what day of the week those were?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was a Friday and a Saturday.
MR. LALLY: And specific to the Friday, did you work that day?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did work that day.
MR. LALLY: And after you left work, where did you go from there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I went to the Canton Junction.
MR. LALLY: And why did you go there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We got a text saying some parents from the varsity team were going to be meeting up there, so I thought it would be a good idea to go and stop by and grab something to eat before the game.
MR. LALLY: And, when you say “varsity team,” which sport was that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It’s basketball.
MR. LALLY: And was that your older daughter or younger daughter that was on that team?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: My older daughter played on that team.
MR. LALLY: So at some point there was a game for the varsity girls’ baseball team?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That’s correct.
MR. LALLY: And where was that game that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: At Canton High.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall who they played that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They played Foxborough.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall when the game was?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: You mean time?
MR. LALLY: Yes.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: 6:30.
MR. LALLY: And, so, you mentioned that you went to the Canton Junction for about an hour or so. About what time did you get to the Canton Junction?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I got there around 6:00. I’m not sure.
MR. LALLY: And following the Canton Junction, where did you go from there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Went to Canton High to watch my daughter play.
MR. LALLY: And within sort of the stands at the Canton High girls’ varsity basketball game were there certain people that you would typically sort of sit with when you watch the game?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We would just sit with whoever we knew. Usually it was the parents of the girls that played on the varsity team.
MR. LALLY: And who are some of those parents that you would sit with?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Some of them were the McCabes, the Fitzgeralds, people like that.
MR. LALLY: And the McCabes, what are their names?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Jen, Jennifer, and Matt McCabe.
MR. LALLY: And how long had you and your family known the McCabes?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I think we’ve known them for about nine years or so.
MR. LALLY: And did they have a daughter on the team as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They did.
MR. LALLY: And so you arrive to the game. As far as your husband was concerned, did you observe him there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He was there already.
MR. LALLY: And where did you go to sit?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I went -- I don’t exactly remember where I went to sit. In the vicinity of my husband and those parents.
MR. LALLY: And following that game, where did you go from there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So after the game we went -- usually at the end of the game we’d go down, talk to the players, congratulate them. And then I told everybody I was going home.
MR. LALLY: And did you in fact go home?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did go home.
MR. LALLY: And after you arrived home, what, if anything, happened then?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I started getting text messages from my husband and he said that some of the parents were going to go to grab something to eat and I should go.
MR. LALLY: And what, if any, hesitation did you have about that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I was tired. I worked all day. Pretty much I was done. So I had already almost started changing out of my clothes and I said I wasn’t going to go.
MR. LALLY: And eventually did you decide to go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: My kids told me to go. They did. They actually -- they said to me you never go out, you don’t do anything, dad is by himself, you should go and just keep him company while he eats dinner. So that’s what I did.
MR. LALLY: And, so, based on that you decided to go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did --
MR. LALLY: Okay. And where --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: -- reluctantly.
MR. LALLY: I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to speak over you.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Sorry. Reluctantly, I went.
MR. LALLY: And where is it that you went?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So that’s when I went to C.F. -- I’m sorry. I went to the Waterfall. I’m sorry. I’m a little nervous.
MR. LALLY: And the Waterfall, is that somewhere you had been before?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I had been to the Waterfall before.
MR. LALLY: And where is that located in the town of Canton?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It’s on Washington Street in Canton.
MR. LALLY: And, so, obviously, your husband was already there. You took separate cars; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And about what time is it that you got to the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I got to the Waterfall around 9:30 that night.
MR. LALLY: And where did you park your car in relation to the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I actually found parking right on Washington Street, and I was across the street from the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: And, when you arrived and when you came in, who, if anyone, did you recognize sort of when you first came into the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I walked into the Waterfall and pretty much I didn’t know anybody except for Matt McCabe, Jennifer McCabe and my husband.
MR. LALLY: And, if you could, describe for the jury sort of when you walk in the door the people that you knew as far as your husband and the McCabes. Where were they in relation to -- you walk in the door, where are they?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So you walk in the door. There was a band in front playing. And then they were -- there were high- top tables, and they were at the back of the high-top tables.
MR. LALLY: And if I was standing sort of at the doorway of the Waterfall, the entranceway in, and facing those high-top tables, which side were your husband and the McCabes on from that perspective?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: On the right. I believe the band was playing on the -- if you walked in the door, the band was in like the top part of the -- like on the left and they were on the right.
MR. LALLY: And the band that was playing that night, fair to say it was fairly loud in there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was extremely loud in there, yes.
MR. LALLY: And as far as -- obviously, you’re at a bar. People are drinking; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And what, if anything, did you have to drink that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I drank water that night.
MR. LALLY: And why was that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I typically don’t drink a lot. I suffer from migraines, so one, like, alcoholic beverage sometimes can set me off for days, so I chose water.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as that high-top table that you went to with your husband and the McCabes, were there other people at that table?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: There were other people there.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And did you know or recognize any of those other people at the table?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So it was pretty much all of Jennifer McCabe’s family. I did not know them. Maybe I had seen them around town and stuff like that. But I didn’t know anybody other than my husband and Matt and Jen.
MR. LALLY: So fair to say that you sort of gravitated or stayed towards that end of the table?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct. I talked to them for a bit. And then I think Jen started introducing me to some people and I met some of her family.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as sort of the overall sort of demeanor within the bar that night and within the group that you were at the high-top table with, how would you describe it?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Everybody was happy, having a good time.
MR. LALLY: So no arguments amongst anybody at any time that you saw throughout the entire time you were there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: The whole time I was there, there was no issues at all.
MR. LALLY: Now, at some point later on in the evening who, if anyone else, that you recognized or knew came into the bar?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I believe -- I was actually about to leave, and that’s when Karen and John came in.
MR. LALLY: And, just to be clear, when you say “Karen,” you mean Karen Read; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And, just to be clear, we’re talking about -- do you see Karen Read in the courtroom today?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do.
MR. LALLY: And could you just identify as to where she’s seated or an article of clothing she’s wearing?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She’s sitting right there (Indicating).
MR. LALLY: I’d just ask the record reflect identification.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Now, Mr. O’Keefe, John O’Keefe, how did you know him?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So John, his niece and my younger daughter were friends.
MR. LALLY: Were friends, are friends?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They are friends.
MR. LALLY: And about how long have you known John O’Keefe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: John we’ve probably known for eight years or so.
MR. LALLY: And, if you recall, when was it about that you had met the defendant, Ms. Read?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I met Ms. Read at -- I’m not sure exactly the first -- I think the first time I met her was Jen McCabe’s house.
MR. LALLY: And, if you know, about when was that in reference to this date of January 28th, 2022?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I met her sometime in 2020.
MR. LALLY: So sometime in 2020 at Ms. McCabe’s house?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And how would you describe sort of the nature of your relationship between either yourself and Mr. O’Keefe or yourself and -- who did you know better, Mr. O’Keefe or Ms. Read?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I knew Mr. O’Keefe better. We saw him all the time. My daughter would have play dates with his niece. My husband coached basketball that his niece played on his team. So he was a great guy. We saw him all the time.
MR. LALLY: And prior to this date of January 28th had you ever been in any kind of social setting out with the defendant, Ms. Read, before?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I had not been.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall approximately what time it was that they came in and you were about to leave?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe it was around 11:00 o’clock.
MR. LALLY: And at some point did they, and, by “they,” I mean Mr. O’Keefe and Ms. Read, did they make their way over to where you were seated at the high-top?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They did. So they walked in and John did his rounds, you know, said hi to everybody, came, you know, gave me hug. And, yeah, they headed towards us, yes.
MR. LALLY: And, when they came over to you, what, if anything, happened then?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: John was really happy. He started talking about and how she had just gotten into Bishop Feehan. He was just very excited. You could tell he was super excited about that.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as Mr. O’Keefe was concerned, what, if anything, do you recall about what he was wearing that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe he was wearing a baseball hat, jeans, sneakers, some kind of top.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, do you recall about sort of a jacket or anything like that with him at any time that you saw him that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I don’t remember a jacket. I remember like some kind of light shirt, like a light hoodie-ish kind of -- I don’t remember a jacket.
MR. LALLY: And, as far as his clothing was concerned, what, if anything, do you recall about the condition of it? Were there any sort of tears or dishevel to --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He looked fine. Nothing about his clothing stood out to me.
MR. LALLY: Okay. Now, as far as what you observed as far interactions between the defendant and Mr. O’Keefe that night, anything out of the ordinary that you observed while you were at the bar?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Say that again?
MR. LALLY: Sure. As far as their interactions between Mr. O’Keefe and the defendant, anything out of the ordinary that you observed between the two of them that evening at the bar?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I saw nothing. I did not see anything.
MR. LALLY: And extending that sort of to the entire group at the high-top table that you were with, anything that you observed sort of out of the realm of the demeanor that you’ve already described at any point in time in the evening?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: No. Everybody was having a great time.
MR. LALLY: Now, with regard to sort of where you were positioned at the high-top table in regard to Mr. O’Keefe, was he closer to your end, or where was he located, if you remember?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I’m not sure. I don’t know where he ended up going. I know that Karen stayed with me. And then I’m not sure where John went, but I know he was talking to other guys probably.
MR. LALLY: So Mr. O’Keefe was moving around a bit, talking to different people?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And Ms. Read was down towards where you were; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And who, if anyone else, was sort of down your end of the table? Who were you talking to when Ms. Read came up?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was Jen McCabe --
MR. LALLY: So --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: -- the three of us.
MR. LALLY: So, when Ms. Read comes and joins, it’s essentially Ms. Read, the defendant, yourself, and Ms. McCabe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And, when Ms. Read first comes up, what, if any, conversation did she have with either yourself or Ms. McCabe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She stated talking to Jen first and then they had conversation and then we started talking.
MR. LALLY: And that first sort of initial conversation between the defendant and Ms. McCabe, did you hear any of that conversation?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did not. It was loud. I don’t know what they were talking about.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as -- obviously, you’re at a bar. People are drinking. What, if anything, did you observe Mr. O’Keefe to be drinking that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe he was drinking beer.
MR. LALLY: And, as far as Ms. Read was concerned, what, if anything, did you observe her to be drinking that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She was drinking something out of a clear glass.
MR. LALLY: So a clear glass with a clear liquid in it?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Okay. Now, as far as through any conversation that you had with either the defendant or Mr. O’Keefe, did you have any understanding of sort of where they came from prior to coming into the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So they had come from across the street.
MR. LALLY: And what is across the street?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: From the bar. So it was C.F. McCarthy’s.
MR. LALLY: And, so, as far as the conversation that you -- at some point in time during the course of the evening you had a conversation with Ms. Read; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We talked for quite a while.
MR. LALLY: And during that time that you were talking for quite a while, as far as was that strictly sort of the two of you, or was Ms. McCabe involved in those conversations as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Ms. McCabe was involved with those conversations.
MR. LALLY: Okay. So just to --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was the three of us.
MR. LALLY: The three of you were talking together?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Uh-hmm.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And with respect -- with respect to the defendant’s relationship with Mr. O’Keefe, what, if anything, did she say about that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So she started by saying how much she admired him, how much -- like how much he did for the children, just how she looked up to him for that. She started with that. Well, she started talking about my kids first and then she started talking about John.
MR. LALLY: So she spoke about your kids --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: About my daughter, yeah.
MR. LALLY: -- a little bit of a glowing fashion; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She did. She always had a way of like saying -- I don’t know. She seemed to love my younger daughter. And she said that she really liked her, my daughter’s relationship with John’s niece. So she first started with that conversation. And then she went on talking about John and his relationship.
MR. LALLY: And then after she talked a little bit about that, what, if anything else, did she talk about?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So she started talking about how much he sacrifices, how he like unconditionally puts all his time and effort into the kids, how she admired him for that, and how she also wished that some of the family members would step up and help out a little bit more because he took all the burden on himself.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything else, did she say about that in relation to sort of their relationship?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Just that she wished they had a little bit more time to, you know, go out, go on dates, go on vacation. But she did mention that they had planned a trip or something like that that she was excited about.
MR. LALLY: Now, about what time would you say it was that you left from the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I think everything started wrapping up around midnight.
MR. LALLY: And prior to that what, if any, discussion did you hear or were you a part of as far anybody talking about where to go next?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I think everybody was having a really good time. So there was conversation first of all where could people go, and there was talk about maybe going across the street to the pizza place.
MR. LALLY: And what pizza place is across the street?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: There’s a pizza place called D&E Pizza. And the owner happens to be there that night, so I think someone brought it up or there was some conversation amongst the group like, hey, let’s go there and he said no.
MR. LALLY: And what, if any -- what, if anything, did you hear the defendant, Ms. Read, say in reference to going to D&E?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She just seemed like willing to go.
MR. LALLY: Was that something that she mentioned once or more than once?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe she mentioned it more than once, but I don’t remember like at this moment.
MR. LALLY: Is your memory exhausted as to that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Could you rephrase that?
MR. LALLY: Is your memory exhausted as to that particular point?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe it was more than once. Is that your question?
MR. LALLY: That’s my question.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Okay. Now, other than that, what, if any other, discussion was there as far as where people were wanting to go or intending to go after the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So after that was kind of, you know, put to rest, then I think there was discussion about -- well, Jen probably brought -- I think Jen McCabe brought up let’s go to my sister’s house.
MR. LALLY: And is that somewhere that you or your husband, to your knowledge, had ever been to before?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We had never been to her house before, no.
MR. LALLY: And was that something that was sort of a private invitation or was that sort of open to the group at the table?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I think it was said out loud, like, hey, anybody wants to go, we can go to my sister’s on Fairview. I wasn’t specifically invited myself. I just think it was put out there.
MR. LALLY: And did either yourself or your husband take anyone up on that invitation? Did you go to Fairview after the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We did not go. I actually said to him there’s no way we’re going anywhere, we’re going home.
MR. LALLY: And, just to be clear, by “him,” you mean your husband?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: My husband, yes.
MR. LALLY: And around the time of midnight or so when you were leaving, who, if anyone, did you sort of walk out with initially?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I believe -- let me think. It was -- again, it was always Jen, myself and Karen. So we got up. And Karen went over to John, something like that. He like put his arm around her. I don’t know if they had a conversation. They talked. It seemed like they were like quite lovey-dovey at that point. And then that’s when Jennifer McCabe went up to Karen and said, “You’re coming with me.” And she like grabbed her. Like she put her arm around her and she said in front of me, she’s like, “You’re coming with me. You’re coming with me.”
MR. LALLY: And, just to be clear, like sort of how she said that, was that in sort of a forceful way or --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: No. Like joking around. Like, hey, you know, you come with me, we’re going -- you know, Karen said where we going, and Jen said it doesn’t matter, it will be a surprise. It was like something like that.
MR. LALLY: And did the three of you sort of walk towards the door to the parking lot together?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And where was your husband at this point?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He was behind. He was with Matt McCabe. They were helping the band like clean up and get their stuff together. It was the three of us in the front, meaning the women.
MR. LALLY: And at the initial time when you’re walking out, you and Ms. McCabe and the defendant, where is Mr. O’Keefe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: A little bit behind us. I’m not sure.
MR. LALLY: So not directly with your group but --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He was not with us, no.
MR. LALLY: Now, at some point you get outside of the Waterfall; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That’s correct.
MR. LALLY: And at some point when you’re outside of the Waterfall do you see Mr. O’Keefe at that point?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did. All of a sudden, it was weird, I see Karen with John and I was like, oh, that’s weird, I thought she was going with Jen. And that’s just what made me notice it. It was the whole like Jen wanting Karen to go with her and then all of a sudden I see Karen with John. I just thought it -- you know, it was just like oh. So it made me notice it.
MR. LALLY: And, so, you proceed to your car, I’m presuming, on Washington Street; correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And, if you recall, which direction was your car facing? Like down towards the Waterfall or away from the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was away from the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: And who, if anyone else, did you observe walking in the direction of Washington Street at the same time as yourself?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That’s when I saw Karen and John walking.
MR. LALLY: And they were walking in that direction as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And did you see them approach or get near to some sort of vehicle?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It looked like they got -- they were walking towards a black SUV of some sort.
MR. LALLY: And had you seen either the defendant or Mr. O’Keefe in relation to a dark or a black SUV prior to that day?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I had, yes.
MR. LALLY: And whose car did you believe it was?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believed -- I thought it was Karen’s car.
MR. LALLY: And which side of that vehicle did you observe Karen walking towards?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She was walking to the driver’s side. But, again, I was more concerned about crossing Washington Street and there was a little bit of snow at that point, so I didn’t see -- like I saw them walking in that direction, like her going to the driver’s side and John going to the other side, but I didn’t see anything after that.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And were they on the same side of the street as you or the opposite side?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They were facing the opposite direction.
MR. LALLY: So they were -- you were facing away from the Waterfall, they were facing towards the Waterfall; is that right?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They were just -- like we were in different directions. So I was -- it’s hard to explain. But they were facing -- like we were -- yes, I was facing up and they were facing --
MR. LALLY: Okay. And different sides of the street; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And then you got in your car and you left; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And around that time that you left, I think you alluded to it, but when you got to your car what was the weather like at that point?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It had just started snowing. You could see the street still.
MR. LALLY: So you could still sort of see the blacktop through whatever snow was on the ground?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: Your Honor, with the Court’s permission, I’d just like to publish what’s been marked as Exhibit 53, just a couple of portions on the screen with this witness.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. LALLY: And, Ms. Gilman, if I could, I’d ask first for the second video from Channel 3. And again if I could ask for approximately 10:59. And if you could just pause it there.
(Whereupon, the video was played and paused.)
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: So, Ms. Kolokithas, do you recognize what’s up on the screen?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And what do you recognize it to be?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That’s the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: And is this a video that you’ve seen on a prior occasion?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, before you, ma’am, there should be a laser point. If there’s any need for either myself or another attorney, all I would ask you to do is just sort of press that button it and direct it at the screen.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Okay.
MR. LALLY: Okay?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yup.
MR. LALLY: So, from this video, first of all, as far as the people in the video, do you recognize anybody in the video?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It’s really hard to see, but it’s -- do you want me to point?
MR. LALLY: If you recognize anyone, I would ask you to draw the jury’s attention to that person and explain who that is.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I’m sorry. That, I believe, is my husband, maybe. I’m not sure.
JUDGE CANNONE: If you don’t know or it’s hard to tell or you don’t know the people --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I’m not sure.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It’s hard to tell.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Ms. Kolokithas, just from up on this video, do you recognize sort of the table that you were at or around on the evening of January 28th?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes. The high-top, yes.
MR. LALLY: And if you could just direct the jury’s attention to, generally speaking, which side of the table that you spent your time talking to Ms. McCabe and the defendant?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So, like, if we’re pointing to here, I’d be on that side, like the left side of the table, if you want to call it the left side.
MR. LALLY: And the area where the band was, if you could?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: The band is here (Indicating). Like what I meant the left, the front.
MR. LALLY: And, if you know, the front door area, sort of where is that located?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So it’s like right there (Indicating).
MR. LALLY: And, Ms. Gilman, if you could just run this video from 10:59 to 11:00 p.m.?
(Whereupon, the video was played.)
MR. LALLY: Thank you, Ms. Gilman. Ms. Gilman, if you could take that down? With the court’s permission, I would ask for from the same Channel 3 the sixth video. And, Ms. Gilman, if I could direct you to 12:09 and 50 seconds? Thank you. If you could just pause it right there.
(Whereupon, the video was played and paused.)
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Again, Ms. Kolokithas, you recognize what’s up on the screen as just later on in the evening at the Waterfall; is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct, yes.
MR. LALLY: And is this towards the end of the evening?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, it is.
MR. LALLY: And fair to say that the lights have been turned up so it’s a little easier --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So now I can recognize a few more people.
MR. LALLY: And, so, from what you can see up on the screen now, if you could, using that laser pointer, just direct the jury’s attention to anybody that you recognize.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Okay. So that’s me right there (Indicating) and then my husband is right there (Indicating), Nicholas. And I don’t know if that’s Matt, Jen. I can’t tell because of the barcode up there.
MR. LALLY: The date and timestamp?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yeah. I can’t see who that is.
MR. LALLY: And, Ms. Gilman, if you could play it from this point -- A Oh, I see John, too.
MR. LALLY: Oh, I’m sorry. Please go ahead.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: And I see John. John’s right there
(Indicating).
MR. LALLY: Thank you.
MR. LALLY: Ms. Gilman, if you could play it from this point till 12:11 and four seconds?
(Whereupon, the video was played.)
MR. LALLY: Ms. Gilman, if you could pause it right there?
(Whereupon, the video was paused.)
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as --
MR. LALLY: Just for the record, we’re at 12:10:38.
MR. LALLY: -- do you see sort of three individuals going towards the front entrance?
MR. LALLY: You just have to say --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And with respect -- with that laser pointer, if you could just identify for the jury who, if anyone, you recognize from that group?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Okay. So that’s Jennifer McCabe, that’s me, and that’s Karen (Indicating).
MR. LALLY: And, so, you’re walking sort of towards the exit at the same time; correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Ms. Gilman, if you could?
(Whereupon, the video was played.)
MR. LALLY: If you could pause that, Ms. Gilman?
(Whereupon, the video was paused.)
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Now, there’s another individual sort of making their way to the doorway. Do you recognize that person?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes. That’s John.
MR. LALLY: So that’s John O’Keefe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: John O’Keefe, yes.
MR. LALLY: Exiting from the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Ms. Gilman, if you could just play the last few seconds?
(Whereupon, the video was played.)
MR. LALLY: Thank you. Now, Ms. Gilman, if I could ask you from the same exhibit but from Channel 1 and the third video down on Channel 1, if I could ask you to fast forward to about 12:11? And essentially what I’m going to ask, Ms. Gilman, is if you could play this from 12:11 and zero until 12:11 and 25 seconds. I’m sorry. First if I could ask you just to pause it for one second. I know it’s an awful time to pause it.
(Whereupon, the video was played and paused.)
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: But before the flag moved in front of the camera, do you recognize what’s depicted up there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Can you repeat the question?
MR. LALLY: What’s in this video generally, without what’s blocking the camera right now, do you recognize what’s --
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It’s the exit.
MR. LALLY: Okay. So that’s the exit to the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Ms. Gilman, if you could?
(Whereupon, the video was played.)
MR. LALLY: And if you could pause right there?
(Whereupon, the video was paused.)
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: The individual sort of down towards the bottom of the frame, do you recognize who that is?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It’s Karen and John.
MR. LALLY: So that would be the point in time when you say they sort of linked up at the front door and then walked towards Washington Street?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That’s correct.
MR. LALLY: And, if you could, just with reference to the screen that we’re looking at here, Exhibit 53, where is Washington Street where you had parked and where you observed Mr. O’Keefe and Ms. Read walking to?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I’m trying to think of the buildings. That’s the back parking lot like where you see the cars, and you have to take a left.
MR. LALLY: So directly in front of where Mr. O’Keefe and Ms. Read are standing is the back parking lot and then to the left is Washington Street?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yeah, I think you have to walk that way and then you’ll hit Washington Street.
MR. LALLY: Ms. Gilman, if you could play it through to the 25 seconds?
(Whereupon, the video was played.)
MR. LALLY: If you could pause that?
(Whereupon, the video was paused.)
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Do you see an individual in the parking lot area?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do.
MR. LALLY: And do you recognize who that person is?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe it’s Jennifer.
MR. LALLY: By that you mean, I’m sorry, Ms. McCabe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Ms. McCabe.
MR. LALLY: And, Ms. Gilman, if you’d go to the last two seconds?
(Whereupon, the video was played.)
MR. LALLY: Thank you. Ms. Gilman, you can take that down, please. May I have one moment, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: I have no further questions for this witness, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Cross-examination.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Hi, Ms. Kolokithas.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Hello.
MR. JACKSON: You and I have never met?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We have not.
MR. JACKSON: We’ve never had a conversation?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Never.
MR. JACKSON: We’ve certainly never interviewed together?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Never.
MR. JACKSON: So this is our first time speaking?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I want to direct your attention to part of your testimony on direct examination with your questioning by Mr. Lally. You indicated that before Ms. Read and Mr. O’Keefe left the bar Ms. Read had been making some statements about Mr. O’Keefe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Okay. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Is that right?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated that she said that she admired him?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That she looked up to Mr. O’Keefe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: She always had a way of complementing him?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That he took so much responsibility on as it pertained to the children?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And that she did wish that they had more time together?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: They had planned a trip together?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And she was excited about that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And she indicated that John was excited about that as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Just before leaving the bar, you indicated that Jennifer McCabe said to Ms. Read, “You’re coming with me”; correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: She didn’t say you and John come with me; correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: No.
MR. JACKSON: That was directed just to Ms. Read?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You’re familiar with the town of Canton generally?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You know that the distance between the Waterfall Bar and 34 Fairview would be maybe a five, six, seven minute drive?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Probably would.
MR. JACKSON: So just after these statements were made, if they went to 34 Fairview, five minutes later, seven minutes later they’d be sitting in front of 34 Fairview; correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. That’s all I have.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Anything?
MR. LALLY: Just very briefly.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: So, Ms. Kolokithas, with reference to your relationship with John O’Keefe, as far as what you were relaying was what the defendant had said to you at the bar that night; correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And fair to say you didn’t have any conversation with Mr. O’Keefe with reference to relationship or trips or anything like that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Not that night.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And, as far as your relationship with Mr. O’Keefe, did you have any sort of discussions at any point in time about sort of his relationship with Ms. Read or anything going on in that relationship?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He didn’t tell me personal things, no.
MR. LALLY: You just didn’t have that type of relationship; correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And this time out on January 28th, that was the first time that you had been out socially with the defendant, Ms. Read; correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And, so, as far as what went on behind sort of closed doors at their home or anything like that, you didn’t know anything about that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did not know.
MR. LALLY: Nothing further.
MR. JACKSON: I have one question, Your Honor, if I may?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: But what you did observe between the two of them that night, to use your words, they were lovey- dovey?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They were.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Ms. Kolokithas, you are all set.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor.
(Whereupon, the witness is excused.)
JUDGE CANNONE: So it’s quarter of. Why don’t I see counsel for just a minute. Jurors, feel free to stand up and stretch.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
JUDGE CANNONE: So your next witness is?
MR. LALLY: Christopher Albert.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Do you want to start or do you want to break?
MR. YANNETTI: It's up to Mr. Lally, but I always like the extra preparation time.
JUDGE CANNONE: It's been a long day for the jurors. Okay.
MR. LALLY: I'm fine either way.
JUDGE CANNONE: Do you have any objection?
MR. YANNETTI: No objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. LALLY: That's fine.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So, jurors, I’m told that we covered a lot of ground today and it makes sense to let you go a little early and we’ll start fresh tomorrow morning. Okay. So please do not discuss this case with anyone. Don’t do any independent research or investigation into the case. If you happen to see, hear or read anything about the case, please disregard it and let us know. So we’ll see you tomorrow morning. Thank you.
(Whereupon, the Court adjourns at 3:45 p.m.)