Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveJulie Albert — Cross (Part 1)
293 linesCROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Good afternoon, Ms. Albert.
MS. ALBERT: Good afternoon.
MR. YANNETTI: You and I have never met; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: I just wanted to pick up on a question and an answer that Mr. Lally asked you and that you responded to. He had just asked you whether or not a few days later you spoke with a couple of state troopers. Do you recall that question?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And your answer was yes?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You would agree with me that it was more than just a few days later; correct?
MS. ALBERT: I --
MR. YANNETTI: It was February 10th of 2022 that two state troopers came to speak with you and your husband, Chris; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And, so, we’re talking about 13 days later, almost two weeks later; correct?
MS. ALBERT: If that was the date, yes, correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Prior to February 10th, no investigator from this case bothered to talk to you or your husband; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Now, in terms of the two investigators who did come, you know -- you knew one of them quite well; did you not?
MS. ALBERT: I knew them. I wouldn’t say quite well, but I knew them.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And when you say you knew them --
MS. ALBERT: Him. I’m sorry. Him.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And who was it that you knew?
MS. ALBERT: Michael Proctor.
MR. YANNETTI: Michael Proctor was the brother of one of your close friends; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: You’re close friends with Courtney Proctor; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Iam.
MR. YANNETTI: By the way, your maiden name is Daniels; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes, it is.
MR. YANNETTI: And you have a sister, Jill Daniels; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes, I do.
MR. YANNETTI: And you would agree that Jill Daniels is also lifelong best friends with Courtney Proctor; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes, she is.
MR. YANNETTI: And, in terms of your relationship with Courtney Proctor, you socialize with her; do you not?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Do you?
MS. ALBERT: Occasionally, yes.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Go out for drinks with her; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You’ve attended parties with her; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You’ve also provided child care for her children; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Objection. Move to strike.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. I’11 see you at sidebar on this, Mr. Yannetti.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
JUDGE CANNONE: What is the objection?
MR. LALLY: The same objection as with the last witness, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. She has a little more of a connection than her husband. What do you intend to do with this?
MR. YANNETTI: I mean, this is -- it's not only relevant and material. In my view, it's absolutely crucial evidence. I'm trying to attack the integrity of this investigation, the things that the police did not do to prevent the conflict of interest. It goes directly to our Bowden. This is --
JUDGE CANNONE: So what is it that the police didn't do here? I agree with you. You can go to that; but, when I gave you the opportunity the last time, you really didn't go back to that. So what do you want to do about what they didn't do?
MR. YANNETTI: Well, I want to explore just how tied in this family is with the Proctors and then point out that not only did they not point it out to any investigator but Proctor never pointed it out either. They kept this relationship a secret when there was a clear conflict of interest. The only way I can make that argument is if I lay a foundation through this witness as to the extent of their relationship.
JUDGE CANNONE: So what else do you intend to ask? I'm not sure you can make a foundation through this witness, the sister of an investigator.
MR. YANNETTI: You know, again, they haven't called Proctor yet. He will be called either by the Commonwealth or the defense. I don't want to be in a situation where Proctor can just disavow everything.
JUDGE CANNONE: Well, if he does, then you can call the people back.
MR. YANNETTI: If I could have just one moment. Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: Just so it's clear, if Proctor does disavow, totally disavow, you can call the people back, assuming that it's not too collateral and you can build a foundation. We still have a long way to go in testimony.
MR. YANNETTI: Right. I understand. And I hope that becomes mute because the Court is going to allow it now. You had asked me --
JUDGE CANNONE: That's pretty bold, Mr. Yannetti.
MR. YANNETTI: You had asked me, you know, what do I intend to get in. This particular examination is leading up to the fact that we have evidence that this witness is calling Courtney Proctor, who is --
JUDGE CANNONE: And I get all of that.
MR. YANNETTI: Who is calling Michael Proctor, who is calling Courtney Proctor back, who is calling --
JUDGE CANNONE: I know where you are going up when you brought up the child care.
MR. YANNETTI: Not just child care.
JUDGE CANNONE: All of that.
MR. YANNETTI: Not just that.
JUDGE CANNONE: What else do you have?
MR. YANNETTI: It's specifically on relevant days to my client's case on February 1st, when she's arrested -- I'm sorry -- February lst, before she is arrested, when she's arrested; February 2nd, when she's arraigned. This witness is acting as a go-between between the lead investigator, Michael Proctor. I'm sorry. Courtney Proctor is operating as a go-between between Michael Proctor and this witness. I need to be able to get into that. We have the records.
JUDGE CANNONE: What was the guestion specifically that you just asked? I thought it was too far afield.
MR. YANNETTI: I asked about the fact that the relationship is so close that she provides child care for Courtney Proctor's children. From there, you know, we get into, you know, the relationship between Michael Proctor, Courtney Proctor, Elizabeth Proctor and how long they go back. I believe I should be able to get into evidence the fact that she was at, you know, Courtney Proctor's wedding. In fact, the Proctors'’ son was in that wedding. I don't understand why that is all not relevant and material. I am trying to establish the relationship between them which then gives context to --
JUDGE CANNONE: You have to keep it neater. You're going too far afield with it. So we will do it on a question and answer.
JURY: Your Honor, [REDACTED] is just asking if they would keep their voices up, including the witness.
JUDGE CANNONE: Thank you very much. So we will do that.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: So, Ms. Albert, you provided child care for Courtney Proctor’s children?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: We need a time frame, Mr. Yannetti.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Have you ever provided child care for Courtney Proctor’s children?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: We need a time frame.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Before January of 2022 did you provide child care for Courtney Proctor’s children?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: When?
MS. ALBERT: 2019. 2019.
MR. YANNETTI: Just that one year?
MS. ALBERT: Yeah. It was pre-COVID. And then when COVID happened and everything shut down I wasn’t helping her any longer.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay.
MS. ALBERT: And then occasionally after I would help just on an as-needed basis --
MR. YANNETTI: Okay.
MS. ALBERT: -- after COVID.
MR. YANNETTI: And during that year of 2019 how often did you watch her children?
MS. ALBERT: Two days a week.
MR. YANNETTI: And she had a boy anda girl?
MS. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: What were their names?
MR. YANNETTI: And [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] were Trooper Proctor's niece and nephew; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: The Proctor family entrusted you with the care of their children; correct?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained as asked.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: You know that Michael Proctor is a state trooper; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You knew that he also was from Canton?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You knew his wife, Elizabeth Proctor?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you were also aware that Courtney Proctor had recommended you to also watch Michael Proctor and Elizabeth Proctor’s children; correct?
MR. LALLY: Objection. Move to strike.
JUDGE CANNONE: That objection is sustained.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: But you go back a long way with Courtney Proctor; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: In fact, you were certainly at her wedding; correct?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Your son was a ring bearer at that wedding?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: So I’1l1 sustain that through this witness.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: You’ve spent time at Michael Proctor’s childhood home; have you not?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You’ve been to the pool at the Proctor’s house; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: May we approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
MR. YANNETTI: Again, in the context of establishing the relationship, that's the Proctors' home. That is Michael Proctor's father, Michael Proctor's mother, Courtney Proctor, Christopher Albert, Colin Albert and Courtney Proctor's husband.
JUDGE CANNONE: What does the Commonwealth say about this?
MR. LALLY: The Commonwealth would object for a number of reasons. Number one, I don't see this witness in there. Two, there is no date or time. Number three --
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Too many people are talking at once. So on authentication grounds, the fact that the witness isn't here. What else?
MR. LALLY: Hearsay as far as anything that's posted on the bottom. I just don't see how it's material.
MR. YANNETTI: It's authenticated because she's going to say that is a fair and accurate representation of the house and she's going to say that's a fair and accurate representation of my husband; my best friend, Courtney Proctor; her husband; that's my son and those are the Proctors. That's the authentication right there.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. So we are going to mark this for identification.
(Whereupon, photograph of Proctor pool was entered and marked as Exhibit “V” for Identification.)
COURT REPORTER: "V" for Identification.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. The objection is sustained. This is not coming in. It will be kept for identification. That's my ruling, Mr. Yannetti. We've got about 10 minutes. You won't finish with her, right?
MR. YANNETTI: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. So let's go from there for about 10 minutes.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: How many times have you been to the Proctor’s pool?
MS. ALBERT: I’d say maybe a dozen.
MR. YANNETTI: And you’ve certainly taken your children there as well?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Colin has been to the Proctor’s pool?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you’ve seen Michael Proctor’s mother and father at that pool; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You’ve seen Courtney Proctor and her husband at that pool; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You are very close with Courtney Proctor; correct?
MS. ALBERT: I don’t -- how would you define “very”?
MR. YANNETTI: Well, I guess I’d ask you to define “very close.” Do you deny that are very close with Courtney Proctor?
MS. ALBERT: No.
MR. LALLY: Objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: No. Go ahead. Next question. You got your answer.
MR. YANNETTI: I didn’t hear the answer.
JUDGE CANNONE: Go ahead. Repeat that.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Do you deny that are very close with Courtney Proctor?
MS. ALBERT: No.
MR. LALLY: Okay. You talk regularly; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. LALLY: You text each other; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. LALLY: You also talk by phone?
MS. ALBERT: Very rarely.
MR. LALLY: Is it fair to -- did you say very rarely you talk to Courtney Proctor by phone?
MS. ALBERT: Usually it’s text.
MR. LALLY: But do you stand by that testimony that you talk to Courtney Proctor very rarely by phone --
JUDGE CANNONE: Do you have a time frame? Do you mean now or do you mean then?
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Let me ask you this. Between February Ist of 2022 and September 6th of 2022 did you only speak rarely with Courtney Proctor?
MS. ALBERT: I don’t recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Were you uSing Courtney Proctor as an intermediary to communicate with Michael Proctor about this case?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I’11 allow it.
MS. ALBERT: No, I was not.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Are you aware that between February lst of 2022 and September 6th of 2022 you and Courtney Proctor spoke by phone 67 times?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Are you aware of that?
MS. ALBERT: No, I don’t know the exact count.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Do you deny that you spoke 67 times?
MS. ALBERT: I don’t deny it, but I don’t -- I don’t recall the exact amount of times.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So you don’t deny that you spoke 67 times. Do you still want to maintain your testimony that you only talked very rarely with Courtney Proctor during that time period?
MS. ALBERT: I just don’t remember the exact amount of times.
MR. YANNETTI: Well, you know that my client, Karen Read, was arrested in connection with this case on February 1st of 2022; do you not?
MS. ALBERT: I do.
MR. YANNETTI: You spoke to Courtney Proctor that date for 12 minutes by phone; correct?
MS. ALBERT: I don’t recall exactly. I don’t remember exactly.
MR. YANNETTI: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Well, before I approach, your memory is exhausted as to whether you spoke to Courtney Proctor that day and, if so, how long the two of you spoke?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: If I may?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: I’m showing you a document with a number of --
JUDGE CANNONE: Just show it to her.
MR. YANNETTI: Right. No. I just want to point out which one that I’m pointing out. I was just going to say a number of lines.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: The third line down, if you would take a look at that specific date and time and see if that refreshes your memory about whether and how long you spoke to Courtney Proctor on February 1st of 2022.
JUDGE CANNONE: Can you see that or do you need glasses?
MS. ALBERT: No. I can see it.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: I do have a pair of readers that I need as well, if you need to borrow them.
MS. ALBERT: Yes. If I could?
MR. YANNETTI: Of course.
MS. ALBERT: Thank you.
MR. YANNETTI: And I just got these and it’s like --
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Yannetti, just bring the glasses up.
MR. YANNETTI: It took me while to figure them out, but anyway --
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: It’s the third line down.
MS. ALBERT: Third Line down. Yes, I see it. I just -- I don’t -- I don’t recall this. It’s a long time ago. Thank you.
MR. YANNETTI: And you say that having seen this record does not refresh your memory that you spoke to Courtney Proctor for --
JUDGE CANNONE: It does not refresh her memory. That’s where you have to leave it.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Did Courtney Proctor tell you the day of my client’s arrest on February lst that she had been discussing the case with her brother that day?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Did you speak to Courtney Proctor that day in any fashion?
MS. ALBERT: What day exactly?
MR. YANNETTI: The day of my client’s arrest, on February lst of 2022.
MS. ALBERT: That was on the sheet you just gave me?
MR. YANNETTI: It was.
MS. ALBERT: Well, I did obviously if it was on that sheet.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And when you talked to her did she tell you that she had discussed the case with her brother?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: Were you notified that Karen was going to be arrested?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: What did you discuss?
MS. ALBERT: I don’t recall.
MR. YANNETTI: The next day, February 2nd of 2022, was the day that my client was arraigned back in Stoughton District Court. Do you recall that?
MS. ALBERT: Yes, I do.
MR. YANNETTI: You spoke to Courtney Proctor three times that day before my client’s publicly-televised arraignment at 9:00 a.m.; did you not?
MS. ALBERT: Again, I don’t remember.
MR. YANNETTI: After the arraignment you spoke to her again for 27 minutes, beginning at 10:58 a.m.; did you not?
MS. ALBERT: I don’t recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So your testimony is -- well, strike that. My client’s arrest was pretty big news in Massachusetts; wasn’t it?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
BY MR. YANNETTI:
MR. YANNETTI: You were aware that my client had been arrested; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes. I had seen it on the news.
MR. YANNETTI: You were aware that she was being arraigned the very next day; were you not?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: This case involved your family; did it not?
MS. ALBERT: How do you mean it?
MR. YANNETTI: Well, you knew that John O’Keefe was found dead on your brother-in-law Brian Albert’s lawn; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: So, necessarily, your family was involved in this case; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Somewhat, yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you knew that ultimately you’d probably be talked to by investigators from this case; correct?
MS. ALBERT: IT assumed so, yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Right. It didn’t happen for 13 days, but ultimately they did come; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: So this case had to have been pretty big news within the Albert family; was it not?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You were discussing it with your husband; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You were discussing it with your other relatives; correct?
MS. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You were discussing it with your friends; correct?
MS. ALBERT: I don’t know about my friends, but --
MR. YANNETTI: So is it your testimony that with all of this going on you confined your discussions about this just to your specific family members?
MS. ALBERT: Not necessarily.
MR. YANNETTI: No. I mean, clearly, you would have talked to Courtney Proctor about this; correct?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. So, folks, why don’t we end here. Ms. Albert, you’ll have to be back tomorrow. And, jurors, the three cautions. Please do not discuss this case with anyone. Don’t do any independent research or investigation into the case. If you happen to see, hear or read anything about the case, please disregard it and let us know. All right. I’11 see counsel at sidebar while the jurors leave. Thank you very much. T’1ll see you in the morning.
(Whereupon, the jury was escorted from the courtroom at 12:30 p.m.)
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
JUDGE CANNONE: So the issue that you wanted to talk to me about, how long will that take us?
MR. YANNETTI: Five or 10 minutes, probably.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So we were going to Switch to FTR. So you can back up and do whatever you need to do. Okay? So we will be done with the court reporter's version. What you're going to talk to me about is like a security issue?
MR. YANNETTI: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: So it's not the record of this case. We will switch. We are done.
(Whereupon, the remainder of the session was recorded on FTR only.)