Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveKatie McLaughlin — Cross
758 linesCROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Good morning, Ms. McLaughlin.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Good morning.
MR. JACKSON: You responded to the call of an unresponsive male in the snow at 34 Fairview. That was the address that you recall, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: The house you just looked at, that is, in fact, 34 Fairview, right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: As Mr. O'Keefe was being transported by ambulance, you were instructed by Firefighter Flematti to get information about the victim from Karen Read, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: He wasn't being transported by the ambulance at that time. He was on the stretcher. And Tony, who was at the head of the stretcher, asked me to get information from Ms. Read about the patient. But he wasn't being transported in the ambulance at that time.
MR. JACKSON: Who is Tony?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Firefighter Flematti.
MR. JACKSON: Got it. When you did, in -- did you follow those directives?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I did.
MR. JACKSON: When you finally approached Ms. Read in order to get that medical history as best you could, what did the scene look like? Who was with you or around you?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: So they started to move the stretcher towards the ambulance. Ms. Read was sort of -- I guess I would describe it as moving around the scene. So she was moving, kind of going in circles. So I was really just focused on her, trying to get her to converse with me and get those questions. So I wasn't really noticing anything else at that point. I was more just trying to contact her, just moving around.
MR. JACKSON: What were you wearing at that time?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: T had my like winter fire jacket on.
MR. JACKSON: What color is it?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: It's yellow and red.
MR. JACKSON: Bright yellow for safety purposes?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: When you began your actual questioning, once everybody sort of stood still and you began your questioning of Ms. Read, you were standing in one spot and Ms. Read was standing to your right; is that right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, the questioning started. As I said, she was moving around the scene. So the questioning was ongoing as she was moving around to different locations. I don't know exactly how many of the questions I got out during the time that she was moving around. At one point, we did come to a stop. And, at that point, she was to my right.
MR. JACKSON: That's the point I want to focus your attention on if I could. When you came to a stop, that's the point in which you recall the statement being made that you attribute to my client?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And, in that group, who was there? I want to make sure I understand this exactly.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: So there was Ms. Read to my right. There was a Civilian woman to my left. There was a police officer who was not directly across from me but I would say maybe diagonal to me, closer to Ms. Read.
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor, I am holding a photograph that has been shown to the Commonwealth. May I approach briefly?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: I show you, Ms. McLaughlin, a still photograph. I'm going to ask you to take a quick look at that photograph and look up after you've studied it for a second and tell me if you recognize the people that are in that photograph.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I recognize people.
MR. JACKSON: May I publish, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: Is this a new exhibit or are you moving to introduce it?
MR. JACKSON: I'm moving to introduce it. It has not been introduced as yet.
JUDGE CANNONE: So go ahead and have the witness adopt it.
MR. JACKSON: Sure.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Do you see the person closest to the frame, closest to the camera?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: In what appears to be a yellow-and-red jacket?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Who is that?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: That would be me.
MR. JACKSON: Who is to your right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: It appears to be Ms. Read.
MR. JACKSON: And to your left?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: A civilian woman.
MR. JACKSON: And across, as you said, kind of diagonal, closer to Ms. Read is?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: A police officer.
MR. JACKSON: Do you know that officer's name, by the way?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know his name.
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor, with that, I'd ask that that be marked as next in order.
JUDGE CANNONE: Is there any objection?
MR. LALLY: No objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: So we are going to remark these exhibits today because of the problems that I indicated at sidebar. How do you want to do this? Folks, it's my responsibility to make sure that the record is intact. You've heard Nos. 1, 3, 309, 247. We need to straighten this out to make sure it is appropriate for you. You know what? Madam Court Reporter, just mark it as the next exhibit number, whatever in the 100s that is, and we will take care of this later today. We don't want to waste your time, folks, while we do this. It's very important that we do it.
COURT REPORTER: This will be Exhibit 381.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So was there any objection to that from the Commonwealth?
MR. LALLY: No.
(Whereupon, photograph was entered and marked Exhibit No. 381 in Evidence.)
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Your Honor. May I?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Ms. McLaughlin, this is the time or the scene that you've told us about when you heard the statement that you contributed to my client, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I'm sorry. Say that again?
MR. JACKSON: Sure. This is a moment in time, captures a moment in time when you're standing there. To your right is Karen Read, as you've described. To your left is a civilian female which you've described, and across from you is an officer which you've also described?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So this would be the time or close in time to the time that you heard the statement that you attributed to Ms. Read, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: The first time you ever made that official report or an official report to law enforcement regarding that statement was January 30th, 2022, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, yes and no. The statement was made in front of the police officer. So that would technically be the first time that that statement was made to a police officer in my presence. And then, yes, I testified to it on January 30th.
MR. JACKSON: You said it on January 30th. You weren't testifying under oath, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Is that correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: My question was really -- and I appreciate you clarifying. My question was really the first time you actually told this statement to any law enforcement was on January 30th?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: We can take that down.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: That was when you met with Trooper Michael Proctor, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Obviously, that was very close in time to the event. It was the next day; is that right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: The events were close --
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: The 29th. Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Say it again?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: So it would be the next day.
MR. JACKSON: Right. The 29th, 30th?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: The events were fresh in your mind at that time?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You obviously knew about the importance of that interview? You knew that it deal with a police officer who had passed?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I knew it was important to talk to the police about what I heard.
MR. JACKSON: And you wanted to be accurate?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You wanted to be as detailed as you possibly could?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you understand that memories, obviously, they get a little worse with time, not better with time, right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: The closer in time you are to the event, the fresher your memory is going to be about the details of that event. You would agree with that, right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: sure.
MR. JACKSON: You told Trooper Proctor the day after the event on January 30th that the statement that you attribute to my client was actually made to the female, not to you, in response to your questioning? That's what you told Trooper Proctor, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't have those notes in front of me. So I don't know that I can tell you if that's correct. But the statement was made in response to my question. However, Ms. Read was looking at the civilian woman as she said that.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Does it refresh your recollection that what you told --
JUDGE CANNONE: Show her a document.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at the highlighted portion of that report and look up when you're finished.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: May I?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Does that refresh your recollection about what you told Trooper Proctor on January 30th?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you told Trooper Proctor (as read), "Karen then turned to her friend and stated" --
JUDGE CANNONE: Hold on. I'll see you at sidebar.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
JUDGE CANNONE: How long is the statement? Does she need it in front of her?
MR. JACKSON: No. It's one sentence, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Go ahead.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
MR. JACKSON: May I, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: In fact, what you told Trooper Proctor was (as read), "Karen then turned to her friend and stated, 'I hit him. I hit him. I hit him. I hit him,'" end quote. Correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Is that yes?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, if you're saying that's in quotation marks in that thing, yes.
MR. JACKSON: That's what's in the report.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: You don't have to agree with me. I'm asking yes-or-no questions, not okay.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Thank you. So, in fact, what you told Trooper Proctor was that Karen Read looked at the female to your left and said four times, I hit him. I hit him. I hit him. I hit him. Correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And have you since learned the name or identity of the female that was standing to your left?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: You're aware that the female that was standing to your left reported the exact same statement?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Are you aware that the female standing to your left reported that exact same statement as could I have hit him, did I hit him, did I hit him?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No. I'm not aware of that.
MR. JACKSON: You then went back to the ambulance after you heard that statement, what you believed you heard my client state?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You opened the ambulance door, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That was the back door?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: The side door.
MR. JACKSON: The side door. And there were two officers -- I'm sorry -- two firefighter/paramedics in that ambulance at the time, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I believe there were more than two at that time.
MR. JACKSON: Two of them included Firefighter Nuttall and Firefighter Flematti?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And, at that point, you told them what you believed you had just heard?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: So I went into the back of the ambulance. I said, this is his name. This is his date of birth. She says he doesn't have any medical history or allergies, doesn't take daily medications. And then I said, she's saying, I hit him. And Firefighter Nuttall motioned to his face and said something --
MR. JACKSON: Objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Ask another question.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: So the answer to my question is, yes, you told in front of Flematti and Nuttall the phrase "I hit him"?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Did you write that in any report?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't write a report in this scenario. My job --
MR. JACKSON: So the answer is no?
JUDGE CANNONE: Let her finish the answer, please.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: So there are two people that will write reports in my department on a call, one being the lead paramedic and the other being the officer who is on scene. So those are the people that write reports. And I was neither of those. So I did not write that in the report. That's correct.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: So let me ask the guestion again. You didn't write it in any report?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't write it in any note?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't document that statement in any way whatsoever, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Other than my interview with Proctor and my subsequent testimony.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't document that statement in any way, yourself, did you?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Since January 30th and that conversation that we just talked about with Trooper Proctor, your statement has evolved; is that right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know how to answer that.
MR. JACKSON: Well, you testified yesterday to something quite different --
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Not quite different.
MR. JACKSON: -- than what you stated to Trooper Proctor, didn't you?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Respectfully, I think my testimony has been pretty consistent.
MR. JACKSON: You testified to something yesterday quite different in context than what you told Trooper Proctor; isn't that right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know that that's right.
MR. JACKSON: Well, you told Trooper Proctor that Karen Read looked at a female standing to your left and said, I hit him. I hit him. I hit him. I hit him. Right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Yesterday, you told these jurors that Karen Read said, I hit him, and an officer said, you what? And she repeated, I hit him. And the officer immediately turned and went to find another sergeant. Is that right or no? Yes or no.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No. There was more to that testimony.
MR. JACKSON: That's not what you said yesterday?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I think I said more than what you just repeated.
MR. JACKSON: Is what I said consistent with what you said yesterday? There were a lot of things that you said more of. I'm asking is that the sum and substance of what you told these jurors yesterday?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So you would agree that from that time until yesterday, your story has evolved; it's changed?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Would I agree with that?
MR. JACKSON: No?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know that I agree with that.
MR. JACKSON: You think the story that you told Trooper Proctor is exactly the same story --
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying.
MR. JACKSON: So has your story evolved?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Okay. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Ms. McCabe, who is Caitlin Albert?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I went to high school with somebody named Caitlin Albert.
MR. JACKSON: With somebody named Caitlin Albert?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I went to high school with somebody named Caitlin Albert.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So do you know Caitlin Albert?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I do.
MR. JACKSON: Are you friends with Caitlin Albert?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I would say more acquaintances, not close friends.
MR. JACKSON: How do you describe an acquaintance?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I would say that we have mutual friends. So we might see each other occasionally because of mutual friends. But we don't have a one-on-one friendship or hang out regularly.
MR. JACKSON: Who is her dad?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
JUDGE CANNONE: The objection is sustained.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Do you know who her family is?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: May we approach, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
JUDGE CANNONE: What is the objection?
MR. LALLY: Relevance.
JUDGE CANNONE: How do you respond to that?
MR. JACKSON: This witness has a deep friendship with Caitlin Albert. She knows the Albert family. We have photographs of her traveling with Caitlin Albert, going to the beach with Caitlin Albert, going --
JUDGE CANNONE: How old are those photographs?
MR. JACKSON: I'd say probably -- they are adults. She's only mid-20s or so. I won't ask her her age, but they can't be more than a couple of years old, two or three years old, I would guess. They have social media accounts with their friends. They tag each other. They vacation together. They drink together. They socialize together. She is diminishing the relationship between Caitlin Albert and her knowledge of the Albert family. I think she knows the Albert family. I know she knows the Albert family, and she knew where -- the import of 34 Fairview Road. I don't believe it's the first time she's ever been to 34 Fairview.
JUDGE CANNONE: So you can focus on that. The other is too extreme. It's not relevant and it's certainly not probative.
MR. JACKSON: That she knows the family or --
JUDGE CANNONE: The house. You say it's relevant to the house, her being at the house, and she knows the family and she's been to the house. You can do that, social media, traveling together. Is Caitlin Albert going to testify?
MR. LALLY: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: She was just one of the people at the house that night?
MR. LALLY: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: She was also at the Waterfall bar that night.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. It's not probative. If any relevance, there's a little bit of a stretch, too. But I'll let you get into that she knows her and she's been to that home before.
MR. JACKSON: Just so we don't have to approach sidebar again, I've got photographs of them together. May I mark those?
JUDGE CANNONE: You can mark them for identification.
MR. JACKSON: And show them to her?
JUDGE CANNONE: No.
MR. LALLY: Your Honor, for the record, I have never seen any of this. I don't even know what counsel is talking about as far as photographs and social media.
MR. JACKSON: But because it's impeachment.
JUDGE CANNONE: But if you knew you were going to use it, you have an obligation --
MR. JACKSON: I didn't know.
JUDGE CANNONE: Hold on.
(Whereupon, there was a pause in the sidebar conference.)
JUDGE CANNONE: Jurors, we are going to send you out. Mr. Court Officer, 10 minutes.
COURT OFFICER: Yes.
(Whereupon, the jurors are escorted from the courtroom. )
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference continued as follows:)
JUDGE CANNONE: Show them the photographs, and we'll have a short voir dire. We'll come back out in five minutes.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
JUDGE CANNONE: Ms. McLaughlin, I am going to step out for a minute. Show them what you have and let a court officer know when you're ready.
(Whereupon, there was a brief recess taken.)
(Court resumes.)
(Defendant present. Jury not present.)
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So, Mr. Jackson, let's mark for identification the items that you told us about at sidebar.
MR. JACKSON: The first one would be a -- do you want me to describe them for the record, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: No. So they are not to be put up on the screen.
MR. JACKSON: These are four items. One of them --
JUDGE CANNONE: Don't describe them. I need to see them. So let's bring them up and mark them for identification, Madam Clerk. Then we will give them back. But I need these marked for identification, and I need to see them. So we will mark them first.
(Whereupon, photographs were entered and marked Exhibits "H" through and including "K" for Identification.)
COURT REPORTER: That will believe "H" through "K" for Identification.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So we have four pieces of paper marked for identification that appear -- you got these off of social media sites, Mr. Jackson?
MR. JACKSON: That's correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. When did you get these?
MR. JACKSON: I couldn't tell you the exact date, but it's been -- we've roughly had them for between six months anda year.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Commonwealth, you've not seen these before?
MR. LALLY: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So we will talk about Rule 14 in a little bit. But we will bring the witness in. You can ask her questions, Mr. Jackson, about her vacation that you mentioned, her -- the drinking that you talked about, the relationship with Ms. Albert. I've forgotten her first name already.
MR. JACKSON: Caitlin.
JUDGE CANNONE: Caitlin, and about the house. So you can ask her questions about that. You can show her these exhibits or these marked for identification if you need to. You may have trouble actually getting those into evidence, but I'm going to let you find out. You can ask her to identify them, how long ago they were and things like that.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: Could we bring in Ms. McLaughlin, please.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. And, Commonwealth, you just saw these today?
MR. LALLY: Yes, I did.
JUDGE CANNONE: And you objected at sidebar that these come in?
MR. LALLY: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Jackson, here is the last one. So, Ms. McLaughlin, Mr. Jackson is going to be allowed to ask you questions outside of the presence of the jury. And you're still under oath and you have to answer truthfully. Okay?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Okay. KATIE MC LAUGHLIN, Resuming VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Ms. McLaughlin, just briefly as a predicate, when you stepped out, I just want to make sure we are very clear, did you have a conversation with anybody from the Commonwealth between the time you walked out of court and just now?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Just about if I needed a drink of water or to use the restroom.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. But nothing about the substance of your testimony?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Ms. McCabe, I asked you before we broke if you know who Caitlin Albert is.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You said that you went to high school with somebody by that name, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You, in fact, know that person as a friend, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I know her.
MR. JACKSON: She is more than an acquaintance?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I would say she's an acquaintance. She is not a close friend.
MR. JACKSON: Is she in a group of friends of yours?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: We have mutual friends.
MR. JACKSON: How long have you known her?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Probably since high school.
MR. JACKSON: And I don't want to ask your age. I wouldn't do that. How long of a span of years have you known her?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Since high school. So maybe 10.
MR. JACKSON: And you know her family generally?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't.
MR. JACKSON: You don't know anything about her family?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: TI don't know her family.
MR. JACKSON: Had you ever been to her house?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Not that I recall being there.
MR. JACKSON: Not that you recall or you haven't? It's two different things.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't recall ever being there.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So you might have been there. You just don't recall?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't recall ever being there.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. If I were to ask you if you have ever been to her house, yes or no, you cannot answer that because you don't know? You cannot recall, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I would say -- I mean, I would lean towards no. I have no recollection of ever being at her house.
MR. JACKSON: Are you friends with her on social media?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: I am just going to leave all four of these up here. I know what they look like. Can you do me a favor and take a look at the first document. What does that document appear to be?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: It says, "Caitlin's friends."
MR. JACKSON: What does it look like that's a printout of?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I'm sorry?
MR. JACKSON: What does that look like it's a printout of? Does that look like it's Facebook or one of the social medial apps?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah. I don't know exactly. Some social media.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Under "Caitlin's friends," do you see your handle, for lack of a better phrase?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I do.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Is that you?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Can you look at the next photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: (Witness complies.)
MR. JACKSON: Before we talk about that next photograph, which is --
MR. JACKSON: I should go in order for the record, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: The first one was "H."
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Before we talk about "I," which is the next photograph, how long have you been social media friends, quote, "friends" with Caitlin Albert?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: More than five years?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Probably.
MR. JACKSON: More than eight years?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: The second photograph or the second document appears to be a photograph. It's "I"; is that right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see yourself in that photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I do.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see Caitlin in that photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I do.
MR. JACKSON: When was that photograph taken?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I have no idea.
MR. JACKSON: Where was that photograph taken?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: You have no idea how long ago that was?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't.
MR. JACKSON: What was the event that is depicted in that photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: Is that local or was that on a trip somewhere?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know. Probably local if it's a beach. I've never been away like to a beach on a vacation with all of these people. So probably local.
MR. JACKSON: And, when we say "local," let's talk about local. I don't mean -- we may have different definitions. Where would that be? What beach? I'm not that familiar with the location.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: Maybe down the Cape?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Possibly.
MR. JACKSON: Do you recognize some of the other folks in that photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I do.
MR. JACKSON: As a matter of fact, there's a lot of people in that photograph, right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: There's a lot of people in it.
MR. JACKSON: Did you take a trip with all those people at some point in the past?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Take a trip?
MR. JACKSON: To the beach.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Did I go to the beach at some point with these people? Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. When did you go to the beach with all these folks?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know. I don't know when this picture is from. It seems old to me.
MR. JACKSON: Well, you can see yourself?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm sorry. Did you says it seems old to you?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah, to me. This isn't like recent to me.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: How old do you think that photograph is?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know. It could be around high school. I'm not sure.
JUDGE CANNONE: And I know Mr. Jackson didn't want to ask you how old you are. When did you get out of high school?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: 2014.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: So could that have been around 2014?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: It could be.
MR. JACKSON: So you've known Caitlin for at least that long?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And, when I say "travel" I mean travel outside of Canton. You've gone places with her, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You've posed for photographs with her?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: With other folks?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: It looks like socializing and partying, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: It looks like socializing.
MR. JACKSON: Like a small vacation?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I've never been on vacation with a big group of people like this.
MR. JACKSON: What would you call that if that's not like a mini-vacation?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: A day at the beach.
MR. JACKSON: A day at the beach. Okay. So maybe a day- vay, day vacation?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Let's look at the next photograph, "J."
MR. JACKSON: May I approach, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I need to remind myself which one that is.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Okay. That photograph looks a little older, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: They both look old to me. I don't know when they're from.
MR. JACKSON: I'm going to ask you the same questions about that. These aren't trick guestions. I don't want to waste your time. What is that from?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't remember specifically what or where this is.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see yourself in that photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I do.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see Caitlin in the photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I do.
MR. JACKSON: You're all posing for the camera, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What is the location?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: No idea?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't.
MR. JACKSON: This is yet another socializing event with Caitlin that you can't recall?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know where this is exactly.
MR. JACKSON: Is that because -- I'm sorry. I didn't mean to step on your words. Go ahead.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know where this is exactly.
MR. JACKSON: So you've had so many socializing events with Caitlin and other folks that you can't pinpoint this one aS opposed to any of the others that you've had?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No. I'm saying I can't -- these photos are old. I don't know. I don't remember where these were or the circumstances around them. That's what I'm saying.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see how you're dressed in that photo?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see the other friends that are there with you?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: How many people would you estimate are in that photo?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you want me to count how many people?
MR. JACKSON: I don't have the photo in front of me. So Just give me -- is it more than five?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Twelve-ish.
MR. JACKSON: Twelve people. Okay. Do you recognize those dozen people?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I do.
MR. JACKSON: Did you go on a day trip with those dozen people?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah, possibly.
MR. JACKSON: When?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know. I'm sorry.
MR. JACKSON: Where?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know. I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: How many times have you gone on day trips with those dozen people?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: How about turning back to Photograph "I." How many times have you gone on day trips and socialized with those number of people, which looks like probably double that, 20 or 25 people?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: That's a big group of friends of yours that includes Caitlin Albert, right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: A big group of mutual friends.
MR. JACKSON: So it's not just that she's a mutual friend. She's a friend; isn't that right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: As I said before, I would consider myself more of an acquaintance. We have mutual friends. I wouldn't consider her a close friend. But -- yeah. That would be my answer.
MR. JACKSON: But you basically grew up with her, went to high school with her and have all the same --
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I didn't grow up with her. I went to high school with her.
MR. JACKSON: When I say "grow up with her," I mean, you grew up in the same town as her, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Grew up in the same town.
MR. JACKSON: Went to the same high school as she did?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Socialized with the same friends as she did?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Went on day trips with her?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And apparently have all the same friend group, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know that we have all the same friend group. These are people that we are both friends with.
MR. JACKSON: But you don't consider her anything more than Just an acquaintance?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I think I described it to you.
MR. JACKSON: The answer to my question is you don't consider her to be anything more than an acquaintance?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I would consider her to be a close friend.
MR. JACKSON: Now, let's take a look at the last photograph. Describe what's in that photograph.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: There's -- it's a picture of me. Caitlin is in it and there seems to be other people in it, as well.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: May I see the photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: (Witness complies.)
MR. JACKSON: You can take it. Sorry. That is a close-up photograph of who?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Caitlin and I'm also in it.
MR. JACKSON: And you're doing what in the photograph as it relates to Caitlin?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: It seems like I'm kind of kneeling down next to her.
MR. JACKSON: Touching her?
JUDGE CANNONE: Can I see that for just a minute, please? I'm sorry. Can you show me you?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: That's me.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: So just for the record -- may I approach one more time, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: You are sort of just behind Caitlin in that photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Caitlin is the one drinking the beer?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You've got your right arm around her?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You both appear to be wearing swimwear?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Bathing suits?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you're giving some sort of a sign with your left hand?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No, I'm not.
MR. JACKSON: Is that somebody else's hand that I saw? Maybe that is Caitlin's.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: I'm sorry. I don't have the photograph in front of me. I don't have it committed to memory. It looks like that's a photograph that you and Caitlin posed for together, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: It seems like it's a closeup of a bigger -- like a picture. It seems to be zoomed in on a group of people.
MR. JACKSON: Which was posted on social media?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Is that right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Are you telling me that?
MR. JACKSON: I'm asking you that. Have you ever seen that posted on social media?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't recall seeing this picture. But, if it was on social media, then okay.
MR. JACKSON: How long ago was that picture taken?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: Who took the picture?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: Where were you when the photograph was taken?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Probably at a beach, if we're wearing bathing suits.
MR. JACKSON: Probably at a beach or at a beach?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I can't see a beach in the picture. Wearing bathing suits, it could be at a beach.
MR. JACKSON: All right. Do you recognize the bathing suit that you're wearing in the photograph?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: You literally don't even recognize your own outfit?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: So that doesn't help define where you were and when that photograph was taken?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Do any of these photographs remind you that you've been to Caitlin's house at some point in your friendship with her?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Has Caitlin ever been to your house?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Not that I -- not to my recollection.
MR. JACKSON: When was the last time that you talked to Caitlin?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't remember exactly. It's probably been a few years.
MR. JACKSON: When was the last time you went to an event, a socializing event with Caitlin?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Again, I don't remember exactly.
MR. JACKSON: Did you talk to Caitlin at any point at or around, on or around, January 29th, 2022?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: When was the last time you had talked to Caitlin before January 29, 2022?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: Could it have been a day before, a week before, a month before?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No. I don't talk to her. Like I said, we are not close friends. So it's like pretty infrequent that we would interact. So I don't know when the last time before that.
MR. JACKSON: What about texting or Snapchatting or communicating in that way?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Could it have been a week before the 29th?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't think so.
MR. JACKSON: You don't think so or you know so?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't think so.
MR. JACKSON: What about after the 29th, after you responded to 34 Fairview? Did you ever have any communication with her?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Not that I can recall.
MR. JACKSON: So is that something that you think you might remember if you responded to a house of her father where there is a police officer dead or dying on the yard, on the lawn, 30 feet from the front door, you might have had a conversation with Caitlin?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I've never had a conversation with Caitlin about that call or this case.
MR. JACKSON: Did you ever contact any of your other friends about the fact that you responded to Caitlin's parents house?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Were you ever asked about this relationship that you had with Caitlin Albert, this friendship that you had with Caitlin Albert at or near the time of the 29th of January?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did you ever disclose to anybody that you had a relationship with Caitlin Albert at or around the time of this event?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: When you went to 34 Fairview, you knew that that was the Albert family home, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: When did you learn that it was the -- you now know that?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I know that now.
MR. JACKSON: When did you find that out?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know. I don't recall. It was some point after, but I don't know when.
MR. JACKSON: Could it have been the next day?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: You and Firefighter Flematti and Firefighter Nuttall were all discussing this case pretty intently after this event, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: It's not that often in the little town of Canton that a police officer is found dead or dying on another police officer's lawn; wouldn't you agree with that?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: We responded to a medical call. So the conversation after the fact was at the hospital, debriefing a call, going over what happened, what we used for equipment, what we need. And just like that was the extent of the conversation.
MR. JACKSON: Would you agree that this case, given its notoriety, is discussed at the fire station almost daily?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know when I'm not there, but it does get brought up.
MR. JACKSON: And, obviously, the fact that the house belongs or belonged at the time to the Albert family is part of that discussion?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know. Like I said, it gets brought up, but it's -- I just avoid it. I don't engage in the conversations.
MR. JACKSON: It was certainly enough of a subject matter that you learned, according to you, after the 29th that that house belonged to Brian Albert, Nicole Albert, the parents of your friend Caitlin Albert, right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, at that point, it was on the news consistently. So I don't know where like that information was introduced.
MR. JACKSON: But it was pretty early on after the 29th?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't recall when it was known that that was the case.
MR. JACKSON: And you didn't learn that that was the Albert family home last week?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: You've known it going on two anda half years?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know exactly when I learned that that was the house.
MR. JACKSON: I realize you don't know exactly, Ms. McLaughlin. I'm not asking you the day you learned. I'm asking you, you've known this basically through the lifespan of this case?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: At some point after, I learned it.
MR. JACKSON: Right. I'm just trying to figure out about how long after. A week after? A month after?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: But it was more toward January 29th than it was yesterday, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: May I just have a moment, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: One other -- just a couple of brief questions. Do you know any of Caitlin's siblings?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: You don't know Brian Albert, Jr.?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Do you know of any of her extended family that might be a little closer in age to you like Colin Albert?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Have you ever met any of them?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Not that I recall.
MR. JACKSON: Not that you recall or no?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't remember meeting any of them.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Your Honor, that's all I have.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Mr. Lally, any questions?
MR. LALLY: Sure. Just a few, Your Honor.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: So, Ms. McLaughlin, you're not friends with Caitlin Albert, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I'm sorry?
MR. LALLY: You're not friends with Caitlin Albert; is that correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I would say she's an acquaintance, not a close friend.
MR. LALLY: Now, you were shown some photographs of you in a fairly large group with Caitlin Albert, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Okay. You don't know when those were, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know when exactly.
MR. LALLY: You don't know where you were when those were taken, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No, not exactly. They seem old.
MR. LALLY: Just to back up, you knew her in high school but you weren't friends in high school, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I would categorize our relationship as always being just acquaintances. I knew her. We had some mutual friends, but we were never close friends. We don't have a one-on-one relationship.
MR. LALLY: And, as far as high school versus post-high school, would you see her more so during high school, the high school years or after you graduated high school?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, probably more in high school, just being there every day. Then afterwards, yeah. It was only here and there, like I said, like mutual friends. So maybe events with mutual friends, I might run into her.
MR. LALLY: To be clear, and I think you made reference to it, but that last photograph that's marked as "K," that seems to be a cropped or sort of zoomed in of a larger photo; is that right?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as each of those photos you were shown, you're present in a photo with Caitlin Albert in a much larger group, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Okay. Have you ever hung out or socialized with Caitlin Albert outside of the letting of a large group?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. LALLY: You've never been to her house before that date of January 29th that you know of, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And she's never been to your house that you know of, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as social media is concerned as far as a friends list, and without sort of doing it, I'm sort of putting that in air quotes, how many friends would you say you have on social media in total?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know. Maybe over 500. I don't know.
MR. LALLY: And of those 500 people, how many of those 500 people would you consider actual friends?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Much, much less than that. Less than 10.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Why don't we wrap this up, Mr. Lally.
MR. LALLY: Sure.
BY MR. LALLY:
MR. LALLY: Just when it comes to that day that you responded, you're working with the fire department. You responded to a call on January 29th to a home or, as you say, somewhere on the side of the road. Did you have any idea whose house that was that was adjacent to where the treatment was concerned with regard to your patient, Mr. O'Keefe?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. LALLY: I have nothing further.
(Whereupon, the voir dire concluded.)
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So there has been -- there was an objection that this was in violation of Rule 14 to admit these exhibits, Mr. Lally. That's what you said, correct?
MR. LALLY: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: I agree. So the exhibits don't come in. But, based on this voir dire and the answers, I'm going to give you some leeway on exactly what -- the relationship, the socialization and the extent of it, friends on social media, those areas. You didn't quite get everything that you mentioned at sidebar. So that's not coming in.
MR. JACKSON: I want to make sure I stay within the parameters.
JUDGE CANNONE: So why don't you come over here then.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
JUDGE CANNONE: So you had said they'd been out drinking together and all of that, one person was holding a beer at a beach in a cropped photo. She's not at a barroom or anything.
MR. JACKSON: No. I didn't suggest that they were in a barroom. That was what I was referring to, that they -- you know, I'm assuming that if Caitlin was drinking, she was drinking too.
JUDGE CANNONE: You didn't get it from them. So you can't do that.
MR. JACKSON: I'd forgotten to -- and I should do it here at sidebar. I had forgotten to actually refer to the third photograph -- is it "J," "K"?
MR. YANNETTI: No. "J."
JUDGE CANNONE: May I have those please, those photographs?
MR. JACKSON: I think it's -- no. It's this one. That one. I forgot to mention that this was "K," that it's been marked.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. They look like young girls in bathing suits.
MR. JACKSON: I do want to make a record that I disagree with the Commonwealth in terms of the Rule 14 objection. The reason that we disagree, this is pure impeachment, as the Court well knows. This is not something that we are going to use in the case in chief. Indeed, I was never -- and I can show the Commonwealth and I can show the Court. My order of proof in terms of my outline I literally do not bring up photos unless, dot, dot, dot, she denied the relationship or she was trying to distance herself from the relationship. I think that's obviously some level of deceit on her part. She knew that there was a relationship. I can prove that there was a relationship with these photos. The level of the relationship is up to the jurors to decide. But she said -- her first answer, Your Honor, was I said, who is Caitlin Albert? And I just left it open for her to say, she's a friend of mine. She's an acquaintance. We went to high school together and I've known her for 10 years. And she said none of that. What she said is, there was a girl in high school with that name. And that's a lie. And that is why we are -- and now she's changing that story. Because I am about to impeach her with those photographs, I don't think that that's a violation of Rule 14. This is pure impeachment.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Lally?
MR. LALLY: What I'd say is I don't think that that is a lie. I think that's exactly what was borne on her testimony in voir dire. The last thing I would say just to flag for the Court is this is a witness who has been harassed by Mr. Kearney (phonetic spelling) on this specific --
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Who?
MR. LALLY: Mr. Kearney, on the specific issue. So if we are going down this road as far as impeachment is concerned, I intend to get into that.
JUDGE CANNONE: Come to sidebar before you do. So I find that it is a violation of Rule 14. So these photographs won't come in. We will keep them handy in case you need to refresh her recollection. They are not to be shown on the screen.
MR. JACKSON: Understood.
JUDGE CANNONE: I expect that the press will not see these photographs.
MR. JACKSON: No, no, no. Of course not.
JUDGE CANNONE: Of course not? They've seen all sorts of things. I was told this morning that one of these photographs has already been circulating today.
MR. JACKSON: Not from us. Not from us.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm just saying but when you said "of course not," I have to be concerned about these things.
MR. JACKSON: I understand. I just don't want the Court to cast a dispersion on us that we were out there, leaking stuff. We were not.
JUDGE CANNONE: No, I'm not saying that.
MR. JACKSON: We don't play those games. Am [I allowed to refer to the photo, just not show them? In other words, what is this a photo of? Does it appear to you to be a photo taken with Caitlin?
JUDGE CANNONE: No. You can talk to her about her relationship. I think she will tell you she was at a beach.
MR. JACKSON: Okay.
JUDGE CANNONE: You can talk; and, if she doesn't, you can show her.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I just want to make sure I'm clear. I don't want to overstep. Can I ask have you ever been photographed socializing with anyone.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I think I'll get the answer and then I won't have to show it. Okay.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Let's bring the jurors in.
(Whereupon, the jury is escorted into the courtroom and seated in the jury box.)
JUDGE CANNONE: So, jurors, from time to time, there are things that I need to discuss with the lawyers, as you saw. We try and do it as quickly as we can. It's in an effort to make sure that what you see and hear in this case is appropriate for you to see and hear. So sometimes we spend a little time now that will save us a lot of time later. So we do appreciate your patience.
MR. JACKSON: May I, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. CONTINUED CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: Ms. McLaughlin, thank you for your patience. When we last left off, I was asking you about your relationship with Caitlin Albert. Do you recall that?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I want to ask you a few more questions about that. You and Caitlin Albert have known each other for how long?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Since high school.
MR. JACKSON: Which is? Give me a span of time.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: So probably about 10 years.
MR. JACKSON: You have traveled with Caitlin Albert and friends. When I say "traveled," I don't mean to exotic locations. I mean day trips, et cetera?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You have a group of mutual friends together, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: We have mutual friends, correct.
MR. JACKSON: Those mutual friends have gone on day trips with you and Caitlin Albert involved?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: On more than one occasion, as a matter of fact?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: On many occasions, as a matter of fact?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Many? I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: More than five?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: More than 10?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: You've seen photographs of you with Caitlin Albert on some of these day trips, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You've seen at least three of those photographs?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You're friends with Caitlin Albert on social media?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Other than the three photographs that you've seen and we've just talked about, there have been other events that you've been out with Caitlin Albert that weren't necessarily photographed or we don't have those photographs, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Probably.
MR. JACKSON: You know that Caitlin Albert is the same Caitlin Albert that is the daughter of Brian and Nicole Albert as you sit here?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. As I sit here today, yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you know that Caitlin Albert also has Siblings, right? Albert, Jr., correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: As I sit here today, yes. I know that.
MR. JACKSON: And you also know as you sit here today that 34 Fairview was at the time of January 29th, 2022 the Albert home, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I know that as of today.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated -- well, let me rephrase that. When you showed up at 34 Fairview that morning, did you recognize that address or recognize the home as that of being Caitlin Albert's?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: You have since learned that that was Caitlin Albert's home?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I know that now.
MR. JACKSON: Right. And you gave your original statement to Trooper Proctor the next day?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And, from that day to this day -- or let's take yesterday. From that day to yesterday, you learned that 34 Fairview was the Canton Albert family home, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: You're asking if I know from --
MR. JACKSON: Between those two dates.
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Between the time that you spoke with Trooper Proctor in this report until yesterday when you testified, you now know that that's the Albert home?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you also indicated that between that report that you gave to Trooper Proctor, the statement that you gave to Trooper Proctor, and yesterday's testimony, your statement has evolved. You've already admitted that. Correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't think I agreed with you on that.
MR. JACKSON: It's changed? It's different?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I've always testified to -- like I feel as though my testimony has been consistent.
MR. JACKSON: I appreciate how you might feel. I'm just interested in the actual facts. You didn't tell Trooper Proctor anything about this officer questioning my client, correct?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to see counsel at Sidebar.
(Whereupon, there was a sidebar conference as follows:)
JUDGE CANNONE: So are you objecting to the argumentative nature that the question began with?
MR. JACKSON: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. You can't do that with all the evolving -- the Commonwealth didn't object until now. But, now that they have objected, the argumentative nature of some of these questions, the objection is sustained. But you changed it into impeaching her with a prior statement, correct? Okay. So if there's continued objections about the argumentative nature, it will be sustained. lft it's strict impeachment, you have to ask the question again.
MR. JACKSON: I'll rephrase it.
(Whereupon, the sidebar conference concluded.)
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: You agree, Ms. McLaughlin, that the statement that you gave to Trooper Proctor is not the same as the statement that you gave to these jurors yesterday?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: May I have just a moment, Your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
BY MR. JACKSON:
MR. JACKSON: A couple of other questions. When you did make this statement to Trooper Proctor, your visit to Canton P.D. was coordinated by another officer to put you and Trooper Proctor together for the interview, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't recall that.
MR. JACKSON: Do you recall being contacted by a completely different officer to say, hey, Trooper Proctor wants to talk to you. Come on into Canton P.D. He wants to have an interview?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't remember exactly how the interview was set up.
MR. JACKSON: So that was my next question. You may have just told me this. Do you have any recollection who set that interview up?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't.
MR. JACKSON: Does the name Kevin Albert sound familiar?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Do you know Kevin Albert?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Do you know him to be a police officer at Canton P.D.?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. JACKSON: Do you know him to be the brother of Brian Albert?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: No.
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: The objection is sustained.
MR. JACKSON: That's all I have, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Mr. Lally, anything further?
MR. LALLY: Yes.