Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveJennifer McCabe — Direct (Part 1)
1,247 lines(Court in session.)
(Defendant is present with counsel.)
(Jury in.)
(Sidebar commences at 2:14 p.m.:
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. You can start again, please.
MR. BRENNAN: Jennife McCabe is our next witness.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: She's here. During the lunch break, I received an email from the defense, and it outlines a -- perhaps an accusation that at some point, unknown Ms. McCabe had been hostile or threatening to another witness who is a witness listed on our witness list.
JUDGE CANNONE: Who is that witness?
MR. JACKSON: Kolokithas.
MR. BRENNAN: Kolokithas from the Waterfall Bar. If I may, I'll give a copy to the Court what was provided to me during the lunch break.
JUDGE CANNONE: When did the defense receive this information?
MR. JACKSON: Today.
JUDGE CANNONE: There's a date on it, so I'm not sure who the author is.
MR. YANNETTI: It's Attorney Matt Rickman.
JUDGE CANNONE: Who sent it?
MR. YANNETTI: Matthew Rickman. He's an attorney for Karina Kolokithas.
JUDGE CANNONE: Keep this. All right. So this April 14, that's when this allegedly happened, April 14, 2023?
MR. YANNETTI: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Prior to the last trial?
MR. YANNETTI: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Two years ago?
MR. YANNETTI: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So why am I seeing this?
MR. YANNETTI: Because she -- we were not allowed to talk to her prior to the last trial because she was still represented at that time by Attorney Rickman, so we did not have access to her.
JUDGE CANNONE: To who?
MR. YANNETTI: To the witness, to Karina.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. YANNETTI: We still have not talked to her outside of court.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Why am I seeing this? What's the purpose of giving this to me now before Jen McCabe testifies?
MR. BRENNAN: I'm providing it to you because in light of that, I tried to contact her attorney, who I think is her attorney, and he's on trial, and so I wanted the Court to be aware of this.
JUDGE CANNONE: So are you raising a Fifth Amendment issue?
MR. BRENNAN: I am not, but I am trying to proceed in an abundance of caution. I do not see a violating threat. That's really not my determination. I'm the prosecutor, and I think that I'll try to be as objective as I can, but I do think it's important to bring it to the Court's attention. I plan to proceed with Ms. McCabe, but I have not shown that to her. I didn't want to give her any legal advice, and that's why I'm bringing it to the Court's attention.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So this is an argument between two women, maybe a threat two years ago. Does the defense intend to doing anything with this?
MR. JACKSON: I intend to confront Ms. McCabe with it as a potential -- it'll go directly to her bias in the case and a potential threat. She knew Mrs. Kolokithas was a witness in the case when she made the statement. I appreciate Mr. Brennan's caution. It's up to him and his colleagues whether it rises to the level of actual witness intimidation. I think it certainly is intimidating when she's making a statement, a hostile statement, to someone she knows is either a witness or a potential witness in this matter just on the --
MR. BRENNAN: My suggestion, Your Honor, is it's now 2:30. I think I'll be a couple of hours with Ms. McCabe. If the Court allows me to go forward with Ms. McCabe as a witness, I don't think the defense will cross-examining today. If they do, this can wait until tomorrow. It'll allow her to seek independent counsel, and if she decides to invoke any privileges, we could always strike her testimony. I think that's unlikely to happen, but it's not my decision. I hate to waste the day, so if I could --
JUDGE CANNONE: Is there any objection to that?
MR. JACKSON: No. I think that makes sense.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. I would like Ms. McCabe to be given a copy of this now so that she can talk to counsel about it.
MR. BRENNAN: I well. She has not seen it. I did not want to approach her but I will give her a copy.
MR. JACKSON: I'm not super comfortable with that. This is pure impeachment. I think she should be advised that there's a potential.
JUDGE CANNONE: So your objection is noted. I'm going to have this marked for identification. She's got to have counsel advise her about this, so.
MR. JACKSON: You know what? You're exactly right. She can't be advised if she doesn't see it.
JUDGE CANNONE: Exactly.
MR. JACKSON: So I can't have it both ways. Yep, you're right.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So it's marked for identification. Mr. Brennan, I'd ask that when you speak with Ms. McCabe you give her a copy of it.
MR. BRENNAN: I will. And I won't speak about anything else about the trial.
JUDGE CANNONE: Right.
MR. BRENNAN: But I will assume there's a sequestration order, but I will give that to her. I will alert her attorney when we leave court, and I'll advise the Court in the morning.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Thank you.
end of sidebar.)
(Whereupon Exhibit D, was marked for identification.)
JUDGE CANNONE: Do for identification.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you very much. Your Honor, may I call my next witness?
JUDGE CANNONE: Please.
MR. BRENNAN: Commonwealth calls Jennifer McCabe.
JENNIFER MCCABE, sworn
JUDGE CANNONE: Good afternoon. All right, Mr. Brennan, whenever you're ready. Ms. McCabe, I'll ask that you pull the microphone closer to you. Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Go right ahead.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BRENNAN:
MR. BRENNAN: Good afternoon.
MS. MCCABE: Good afternoon.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you please introduce yourself to the jury?
MS. MCCABE: Hi. I'm Jennifer McCabe, M-C-C-A-B-E.
MR. BRENNAN: Ms. McCabe, how old are you?
MS. MCCABE: I'm 49 years old.
MR. BRENNAN: Are you married?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I am married with four daughters.
MR. BRENNAN: Without detailing your children's names, could you tell us a little bit about your family?
MS. MCCABE: Sure. I have four daughters that are 16, 17, 19, and 21. Two are in high school, and two are in college.
MR. BRENNAN: In raising your children, was your family active in local sports?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. All four of my daughters played multiple sports from when they were young to now are playing in college. My husband and I both coached them. My husband coached them from when they were young up through eighth grade in soccer, and I coached them in basketball.
MR. BRENNAN: Without telling me your address, what town are you from?
MS. MCCABE: I'm from Canton.
MR. BRENNAN: How long have you lived in Canton with your family for?
MS. MCCABE: I was born and raised in Canton, and now I'm raising my family there.
MR. BRENNAN: So your family their whole life you've raised them in Canton?
MS. MCCABE: One year, we lived in Stoughton with my daughter.
MR. BRENNAN: Who do you live with now?
MS. MCCABE: I live with my husband and my four daughters.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you briefly give me a little bit more background on your children's school and your participation and the interaction with your children and raising them?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. So I was a teacher, and then once I had children, I stayed at home with them, and basically was just kind of like your typical, I don't know, small-town mom. I was the room parent. I coached them.
MR. JACKSON: Objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: No, I'll allow it, but why don't we move along.
MR. BRENNAN: Yes. A When I coached, I drove the kids back-and-forth on my team, would take them places, et cetera.
MR. BRENNAN: In both with your family and raising your children, did at some point did you meet a gentleman by the name of John O'Keefe?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: She with us meeting John O'Keefe.
MS. MCCABE: Sure. When my third daughter was in kindergarten, she became friends with John's niece, and during that kindergarten school year, unfortunately, (c) 's mother and father both passed away, and John moved in the house and became Mr. Mom.
MR. BRENNAN: When John took over guardianship of the children, did you assist in an active role in helping him?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. (c) and my daughter were very close, so she would come over and play. My daughter would go over there. (c) would come and have sleepovers. A lot of times it would be on Friday nights. I would have (c) and then another individual would have (c) .
MR. BRENNAN: Had you known John O'Keefe well before he took over guardianship of the children?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: During the time when he was the guardian of the children, did your relationship, not just with his niece and nephew, with him grow any closer?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, we became very good friends.
MR. BRENNAN: How close of friends did you become over the years?
MS. MCCABE: Well, throughout the years, obviously, when they were younger, you know, we talked more, you know, just about the logistics of CCD pickup, drop-off, basketball, sports, but then he would also call me, you know, you know, as the girls got older all the girl drama, or, you know, the hormones and things like that. He would also come over, you know, and hang out and have a beer and, you know, just talk about whatever new -- was new in his life or going on, or, you know, just the day and day out struggles of his, you know, life, and raising the kids now, and figuring it all out with -- you know, work and family and all that.
MR. BRENNAN: Leading into January 28th of 2022, so the jury understands, how close is your friendship with John O'Keefe at that time?
MS. MCCABE: He was a very good friend of mine that I knew I could call for anything.
MR. BRENNAN: I want you to take us forward to January 28, 2022. Do you remember that day?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember it well?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Take us to the early morning hours of January 28, 2022. You learn that maybe weather or a storm is coming?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us more a little bit about that.
MS. MCCABE: We also the report that there was going to be a big storm, a nor'easter, so we all knew that basically all the Saturday activities were going to be canceled.
MR. BRENNAN: Did that includes sports?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was and is the sporting events of the children a big part of your life?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, back then I had, you know, two in high school that played three sports, and they played club sports as well, and then the two middle school played club sports and town sports. So most of our weekends were taken up by kind of running from one sporting event to the next.
MR. BRENNAN: When you learned about the weather and the change in schedule, did it change your plans for that day?
MS. MCCABE: No, not particularly. I had a -- my day was pretty set out. I had my niece, and then I had sporting events. It was kind of my plans for the next day that obviously got changed.
MR. BRENNAN: Take us through the afternoon of the 28th, what's happening?
MS. MCCABE: Well, I had had my niece for the weekend. She was picked up. My oldest was on the hockey team, and she was having a team dinner at the house, so I picked up pizza, got desserts, set it up for them, and then I left with my daughters and my husband Matt, and we met some of the parents from the high school basketball team at a local pub to grab a bite and a drink before the basketball game because my other daughter played on the high school girls basketball team.
MR. BRENNAN: What time was the basketball game set for that night?
MS. MCCABE: I believe it was 6:00 or 6:30.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you and your family go to the game?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, we did.
MR. BRENNAN: After the game, what happened?
MS. MCCABE: After the game, I drove my daughter home. My sister Nicole sent me a text and said that she was going to be at the Waterfall, and it was my nephew's birthday. He was going to meet up and did I want to come by for a drink.
MR. BRENNAN: What is your nephew's name?
MS. MCCABE: Brian. Brian, Junior.
MR. BRENNAN: It was his birthday that night?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it was.
MR. BRENNAN: When you received the call to meet with friends and family at the Waterfall, do you remember what time that plan was made?
MS. MCCABE: I don't. My sister sent me a text at some point letting me know she was going to be there so I'm not -- I don't know what time.
MR. BRENNAN: After the game and after some time, did you go to the Waterfall to meet your friends and family?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Describe very briefly, what's the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: It's just a local town bar.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember about what time you got to the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: About 9 o'clock.
MR. BRENNAN: When you got there, was there anybody there that you knew?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Now take us inside the Waterfall. When you get there, who do you see?
MS. MCCABE: I walk in, and I see Julie and Chris Albert, my niece Caitlin, my sister Nicole, and my niece's boyfriend Tristan.
MR. BRENNAN: You said you saw Julie and Nicole Albert in the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you related to either of them?
MS. MCCABE: Nicole is my sister.
MR. BRENNAN: So Brian Sr. would be your brother-in-law?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Also you mentioned there was a niece?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, Caitlin.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that Brian and Nicole's daughter?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You mentioned a name Tristan. What's his relationship between -- to Brian Albert's niece?
MS. MCCABE: He's now her fiancé.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there anybody else I missed?
MS. MCCABE: That's all who was there. I'm not sure if Nick Kolokithas was already in there when I got there, of he arrived right after and then his wife joined us.
MR. BRENNAN: So when you're in the bar and you see your friends, what do you do next?
MS. MCCABE: I immediately just, you know, join them and sit down.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you eating, drinking?
MS. MCCABE: I know I ordered a beer. They had appetizers on the table. I'm not sure whether I had any or not.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you drinking alcohol that night?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: As you're spending time with your family, did the night grow?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you stay at the table where everybody was eating, or did you move inside the bar?
MS. MCCABE: We were pretty much right around the table.
MR. BRENNAN: Did anybody new join you or join the group at some point?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, a little while later Brian Albert and Brian Higgins joined us at the Waterfall.
MR. BRENNAN: So when you first got there, was Brian Albert already there? A No, he wasn't.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that your Brian brother-in-law Brian Albert?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And you said Mr. Higgins. Did you know Mr. Higgins?
MS. MCCABE: I had met him a few times when he was out with Brian.
MR. BRENNAN: You had met him a few times before that night?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you friendly with him?
MS. MCCABE: He was a friend of Brian's.
MR. BRENNAN: Was he your friend?
MS. MCCABE: No, he was Brian's friend.
MR. BRENNAN: You knew who he was?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: So when Mr. Albert and Mr. Higgins joined the group later, did they come directly to you or did they stay somewhere else inside the bar?
MS. MCCABE: No, they came over to our table I believe.
MR. BRENNAN: How long were you in the Waterfall for that night?
MS. MCCABE: Approximately nine to a little -- around midnight-ish.
MR. BRENNAN: About three hours?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you have an estimate how many drinks you had, alcoholic drinks, you might have had?
MS. MCCABE: I don't. I don't know. Maybe two, three.
MR. BRENNAN: Throughout the night, were you feeling any effects of the alcohol?
MS. MCCABE: Not that I recall, no.
MR. BRENNAN: When the group was together, you mentioned a number of people joined. Were you joined by other people later?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You were joined by later?
MS. MCCABE: John O'Keefe and Karen Read.
MR. BRENNAN: And you talked about your relationship with John O'Keefe?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, earlier, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you make plans with him or did he just show up?
MS. MCCABE: I believe he had started the conversation about the night with Chris Albert.
MR. BRENNAN: Chris Albert is a different Albert than Brian Albert?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: What is the relationship between them?
MS. MCCABE: Brian Albert and Chris Albert are brothers.
MR. BRENNAN: Was Chris Albert there when Mr. Higgins and Brian Albert arrived?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Actually, Chris -- did I miss him? Because Chris was there with Julie. Did I -- I'm not sure if I said that when I was naming everyone at the table. I apologize.
MR. BRENNAN: You may have.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: So when you first got there, he was at the table --
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: -- with your sister?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, he was.
MR. BRENNAN: When moments before John O'Keefe arrived with the defendant, what was the mood in the group?
MS. MCCABE: Cheerful, good mood. Everybody was just out having a drink. We all knew the storm was coming tomorrow, and you know, just a typical, average night.
MR. BRENNAN: Celebratory?
MS. MCCABE: Yeah.
MR. BRENNAN: You said you were going to see Brian Albert, Jr.?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: It was his birthday. Was Brian Albert, Jr. at the Waterfall when you got there?
MS. MCCABE: No, he was not.
MR. BRENNAN: Was Brian Albert, Jr. there any time when you were at the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: No, he was not.
MR. BRENNAN: Without relating a conversation with some other person, did you have an understanding of where Brian Albert, Jr. was?
MS. MCCABE: He was at home.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you historically or typically see Brian Albert, Jr., your nephew, on his birthday?
MS. MCCABE: Yeah, typically, we always, you know, get together. We try to and do a cake for whoever's birthday it is, and then whatever, you know, aunts or cousins are around come over.
MR. BRENNAN: When John O'Keefe arrived at the Waterfall with the defendant, do you have a general estimate or guess -- not guess -- but a general estimate of what time they arrived?
MS. MCCABE: Approximately 11:00.
MR. BRENNAN: When they first arrived, did you see them?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Where did you see them coming from?
MS. MCCABE: I saw them walk in.
MR. BRENNAN: When they walked in, did you react in any way?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I was happy to see them.
MR. BRENNAN: Why were you happy to see them?
MS. MCCABE: Because I loved John, and I liked Karen.
MR. BRENNAN: So you were happy to see John?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, very.
MR. BRENNAN: You were happy to see the defendant?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember your first interaction with either John or the defendant that night inside the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: I believe John walked over to where I was, you know, kind of to my end of the table, and maybe Karen had walked to the other end of the table. But I would assume I probably hugged both of them when I saw them.
MR. BRENNAN: I'm going to ask you not to assume. If you don't know, that's okay.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: You said that you had known the defendant as well?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember how long she had been dating John O'Keefe up to that point?
MS. MCCABE: I know I met her in July of 2020?
MR. BRENNAN: Had you had a chance to spend time or interact with her over that time before that night at the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I had.
MR. BRENNAN: And share with us some of the moments or some of the reasons that you would interact?
MS. MCCABE: The first time I met Karen, John had reached out. We would do pool days with him and his niece and his nephew. So he had told me he was dating a new girl, and he wanted to bring her over. (c) (c) , so he thought that that would be something we could, you know, we would talk and bond over. I said, yeah, great, bring her over. So her and John and (c) and (c) came over. We had a pool day. I liked Ms. Read immediately. I thought we hit it off. It was really great, you know, talking to someone my age that also had ( , because a lot of -- I didn't know a lot of people who have it. So it was really nice to have somebody to relate to. Then moving forward, we would see them, you know, if it was my daughter's birthday party, when it was time for pickup, you know, they would come in, have a couple of drinks. Same thing for, like, a Halloween party, after basketball games.
MR. BRENNAN: So you spent time both with John and Ms. Read?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you spend time with the defendant separately without John around?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you become friendly with her?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And were you friendly that night?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: After John and the defendant entered the bar and you greet; did you interact or spend time with Ms. Read at the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: And speaking of the defendant, do you recognize her here in the courtroom?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you kindly point to her and describe an article of clothing she's wearing?
MS. MCCABE: She's sitting right over there with a black shirt or blue.
MR. BRENNAN: Is she between Attorney Jackson and Attorney Yannetti?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, she is.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were at the Waterfall that night, do you remember who you were speaking to or where you were spending your time?
MS. MCCABE: As to earlier in the night or after?
MR. BRENNAN: I'm sorry. After Mr. O'Keefe and the defendant arrived.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Ms. Read came over and spoke to me because I had seen her the Saturday before, and she had told me how she had started a new medication and it was giving her some awful side effects, and I said I'm shocked they put you on that, et cetera.
MR. BRENNAN: Let me not ask you about conversations you had.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: But about the moment that you were in. Did you spend time with Ms. Read that night?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Inevitably, did you drink more alcohol as the night went on?
MS. MCCABE: I believe I had, like I said earlier, a couple of drinks, two three, I'm not sure.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever have a shot of alcohol?
MS. MCCABE: I do not believe I had the shot, no.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see the party, the group of friends and family doing a shot?
MS. MCCABE: I was in the bathroom and walked out, and they were doing or had just done a shot.
MR. BRENNAN: With the Court's permission, I'd like to display parts of Exhibit 22 which has already been introduced into evidence, which is video surveillance footage from the Waterfall.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: No objection.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd like to start at 10:54:20, please.
(Video played.)
MR. BRENNAN: If you could stop for one second.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you recognize what's in that video?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And what is that?
MS. MCCABE: That is the Waterfall.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: Kindly proceed.
(Video played.)
MR. BRENNAN: If you could stop.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you see the two people entering from the left?
MS. MCCABE: I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know who they are?
MS. MCCABE: I believe that is Ms. Read and John O'Keefe.
MR. BRENNAN: Ms. Gilman, is there any way to enlarge the top of the video where the other people are close to the table or bar?
VIDEO PLAYBACK: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: Looking at this video, can you tell or identify anybody under that time stamp, and if you can't, that's okay, but if you can, can you tell us what you see?
MS. MCCABE: I think the guy right there -- well, where she just was is Brian Higgins.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: If you go move up a little bit, Ms. Gilman.
MS. MCCABE: I believe that's my husband Matt.
MR. BRENNAN: On the right?
MS. MCCABE: On the right. And I think that's me on the left.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: And if you can go down the table to the left, Ms. Gilman?
MR. BRENNAN: Do you recognize who that might be from the clothing?
MS. MCCABE: I'd have to take a guess --
MR. BRENNAN: Don't guess.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: Just say if you don't. Anybody else at the table more to the left that you recognize?
MS. MCCABE: Not from this picture.
MR. BRENNAN: Ms. Gilman, could you highlight where Ms. McCabe thinks that she is in that video with that circle you just had and play the video?
(Video played.)
MR. BRENNAN: If you could stop.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that you clapping, Ms. McCabe?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is.
MR. BRENNAN: Why are you clapping?
MS. MCCABE: Because I was happy to see them.
MR. BRENNAN: Both of them?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you continue, please.
(Video played.)
MR. BRENNAN: And who is that person walking right to left hugging people?
MS. MCCABE: That is John O'Keefe.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you continue, please, Ms. Gilman?
(Video played.)
MR. BRENNAN: Are you interacting with anybody?
MS. MCCABE: I can't see where I am.
MR. BRENNAN: If you could stop the video, please. Could you move ahead to 11:26:50, please?
COURT REPORTER: 11:26 what?
MR. BRENNAN: 11:26:15.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that your group still at the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is.
MR. BRENNAN: If you could stop there, Ms. Gilman. If we could hone in or circle where you were previously where we saw Ms. McCabe?
MR. BRENNAN: I know it's a bit blurry, if you can, and if you can't, please let me know. Can you see whether you're in that area?
MS. MCCABE: I believe I am, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you put the circle down just a little bit, Ms. Gilman? Now, if you could play from 11:26:50 to 11:27, please. We're a little bit ahead right now.
(Video played.)
MR. BRENNAN: Who are you hugging there?
MS. MCCABE: I believe that's Ms. Read.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: One more, Ms. Gilman. I'm going to ask you to forward to 11:46. Could you pause, Ms. Gilman? Could you circle that same area where Ms. McCabe was last describing?
MR. BRENNAN: Can you make anything out in this video?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it looks like they're all, you know, toasting or doing a cheer before they do a shot.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you see whether or not the defendant is in that part of the video?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it looks like she is in front of the man in the plaid coat.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you participating with the drinking at this moment?
MS. MCCABE: I don't see myself in the video. I don't believe I was.
MR. BRENNAN: But you were drinking separately that night, weren't you?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I was drinking beer.
MR. BRENNAN: If you could continue, please.
(Video played.)
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: shortly after the shot, was there conversation about leaving the Waterfall as a group?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, there was.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there any discussion about where the group should go?
MS. MCCABE: At first, Ms. Read was asking if we could go up the street to D&E.
MR. BRENNAN: What D&E?
MS. MCCABE: D&E is a sub shop that's owned by Chris Albert.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it open that late at night?
MS. MCCABE: No, it wasn't.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you in the past gone to that pizza shop after hours to eat?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, we had.
MR. BRENNAN: And tell us what the defendant was saying?
MS. MCCABE: She just kept asking, "Can we go up to D&E? Can we go up to D&E?" She wanted just to go up, and, you know, Chris makes food and then just we were going to go all -- she wanted us all just to go up there and eat and hang out.
MR. BRENNAN: That wasn't an uncommon occurrence for the group to sometimes go to that pizza shop after hours, was it?
MS. MCCABE: Nope.
MR. BRENNAN: Did the group decide to go to the pizza shop?
MS. MCCABE: They decided they weren't going to go.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there a different plan made?
MS. MCCABE: Before Brian Albert left, he said to the group, "Hey, you know, I'm going to go back home and have a beer with Brian, Jr. if anybody wants to come by."
MR. BRENNAN: When you received the invitation to the group to go back to Brian Albert's house, did you decide whether you were going to go home or go back to your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I decided I was going to go to my sister's house.
MR. BRENNAN: Without saying what was said, was there any discussion in the group among the participants about going back to your sister or Brian Albert's house?
MS. MCCABE: Everybody seemed to want to go back.
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll sustain that.
MR. BRENNAN: Did anybody object to going back?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you been to your sister's house before?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Many times?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know the address of where your sister lives?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And so after that conversation, did you stay at the Waterfall for a little bit or did you leave immediately?
MS. MCCABE: Probably left maybe after maybe five, ten minutes.
MR. BRENNAN: Without saying what was said, did you have a chance to speak to John O'Keefe?
MS. MCCABE: I did, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And you spoke to him inside the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have a chance to speak to the defendant?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And was your plan to go back to your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Before you left, did you have any understanding whether or not Mr. O'Keefe and the defendant were going to join you?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it. Did you have an understanding regarding that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And what was your understanding?
MS. MCCABE: They were --
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to allow it. A They were coming.
MR. BRENNAN: Who else was going to go back to your nephew and your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: Brian Higgins and my niece Caitlin.
MR. BRENNAN: A little after 12:00, did you leave the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember that night leaving?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Before you left, did you talk to anybody in particular?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, Ms. Read and then Mr. O'Keefe.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you speak to them inside the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: I walked out with Ms. Read, and we spoke at the doorway and then John joined us.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you invite Ms. Read to come with you?
MS. MCCABE: I did, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did she decline?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And who did you go to your sister's house with, who drove?
MS. MCCABE: I drove, and I went with my husband Matt.
MR. BRENNAN: Anybody else?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember what time it was that you were speaking to Ms. Read about going to your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: After midnight.
MR. BRENNAN: If I could have Exhibit 22 again. Ms. Gilman, if you could take us to 12:10:36.
(Video played.)
MR. BRENNAN: If you could stop it there, please.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have a chance to talk to Mr. O'Keefe and the defendant outside of the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you know specifically what time you left the Waterfall?
MS. MCCABE: It was after midnight.
MR. BRENNAN: When you left the Waterfall with your husband, you said you were driving. Did you stop anywhere along the way before you got to your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us what you see when you get to your sister's house. What are the weather conditions like as you're driving there?
MS. MCCABE: It's to snow to the point where it's starting to, like, accumulate, it was on your car, it's just, you know, getting on the street.
MR. BRENNAN: Is it light; is it heavy?
MS. MCCABE: It's light at this point.
MR. BRENNAN: How long does it take to get from the Waterfall to your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: Five to eight minutes depending on lights and weather, et cetera.
MR. BRENNAN: When you first get to your sister's house, while you're still in the car, describe what you see?
MS. MCCABE: My wipers are on. I'm just looking out the window and it's snowing. It's dark.
MR. BRENNAN: Anybody in the driveway, any cars in the driveway that you see?
MS. MCCABE: Oh, when I pull up to my sister's?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes.
MS. MCCABE: As I pulled down the street, I take a left into the driveway, and there is a Jeep that's parked on the street, and there's maybe a couple of cars in my sister's driveway.
MR. BRENNAN: What do you do when you arrived at your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: I go in the house.
MR. BRENNAN: Now, there are a couple of doors at your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Is there a front door?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Is there a side door?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Which one is closest to the driveway?
MS. MCCABE: The side door.
MR. BRENNAN: Which door do you go in when you get to your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: The front door.
MR. BRENNAN: Was anybody with you when you went in?
MS. MCCABE: My husband Matt.
MR. BRENNAN: You walked in together?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us the first person you remember meeting?
MS. MCCABE: When I went in the house?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes.
MS. MCCABE: Probably my niece was at the table, and then I saw my nephew Brian.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there anybody else that you saw at the table?
MS. MCCABE: Julie Nagel and Sarah Levinson.
MR. BRENNAN: When you walk in the front door of the house, what table is this? Is this a living room table, a kitchen table?
MS. MCCABE: Oh, you walk in, and then you go to the right, and it's into the kitchen, and there's a table there.
MR. BRENNAN: Is the kitchen separate from the living room or is it open?
MS. MCCABE: It's open, but they're separate.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you see the kitchen table when you walk in the door if you turn and look right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And when you go into the kitchen, you said there was a woman by the name of Julie Nagel?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And then another woman Sarah?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You know her last name?
MS. MCCABE: Levinson.
MR. BRENNAN: Julie Nagel, did you know here when you walked in the house that night?
MS. MCCABE: I had met her a few times.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you spent time with her, were you friends with her?
MS. MCCABE: No, I just had met her a few times and she had watched my dog for me when my nephew couldn't.
MR. BRENNAN: When you would go away, would your nephew be responsible to watch your dog?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you understand that Julie Nagel had watched your dog a couple of times?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you ever socialized with her before that night?
MS. MCCABE: I may have seen her at a graduation party, but never beyond that.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you friends with her at that point?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Friendly enough that she watched your dogs?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, through my nephew. He just said, "My friend's going to do it," and I trusted his judgment.
MR. BRENNAN: And there was another woman by the name of Sarah. Did you know her before you saw her that night?
MS. MCCABE: I knew of her. If I were to see her, I'd say hi, but that's the extent of it.
MR. BRENNAN: How did you know of her?
MS. MCCABE: Just from being in the town, going to different sporting activities, and just being around.
MR. BRENNAN: You said your nephew Brian was there as well in the kitchen?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: This was his birthday?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: How old was he?
MS. MCCABE: I think he was turning 23.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there anybody else in the house when you and your husband first got there?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, my sister and my Brian Albert and Brian Higgins.
MR. BRENNAN: So Mr. Higgins, Brian Albert, and your sister were there before you?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Where was everybody when you first came in?
MS. MCCABE: My niece Caitlin, Sarah Levinson, Julie Nagel, and Brian, Junior were all at the kitchen table. My sister was over, I think cleaning the counters, and Brian and Brian were off in that TV room that you can see from the kitchen because there's a wide opening.
MR. BRENNAN: If you walk in the front door, would I look left or right to see the TV room?
MS. MCCABE: You'd look right to the kitchen, and then through the kitchen is the TV room, but you could look and almost -- you know, when you walk in, you can see because it's open.
MR. BRENNAN: Is the TV room in anyway have a relationship with that side door?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it does.
MR. BRENNAN: And if you were to walk in the side door, would you be walking into the TV room?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you saw your nephew Brian Junior and his friends, are his friends about the same age as him?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Were they drinking?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there music?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And when you went in, did you spend time with the group?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I sat down and started talking to them.
MR. BRENNAN: And when you were speaking to them, did you have any drinks that night?
MS. MCCABE: I believe they gave me -- they brought me over a White Claw, but I didn't have more than a sip of it. I really wasn't -- I was at that point where I just didn't want another drink.
MR. BRENNAN: As you were in the kitchen, were you expecting anybody else?
MS. MCCABE: We had mentioned it to Karen and John, and I had actually just spoken to John, so I was expecting them.
MR. BRENNAN: So when you saw John O'Keefe in the Waterfall, that wasn't the last time you had spoken to him?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: You had spoken to him, was it on the ride to your niece's -- I mean your sister's?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you call him or did he call you?
MS. MCCABE: He texted me, and I believe asked something like where to, and since I was driving, I called him.
MR. BRENNAN: When you called him, what did you tell him? What did you guys say?
MS. MCCABE: I just said they lived 34 Fairview Road off of Chapman.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know if John O'Keefe had ever been to the Albert home before?
MS. MCCABE: I don't believe he had.
MR. BRENNAN: In that conversation, how long did that conversation take?
MS. MCCABE: It was quick.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there any other conversation that you had with him other than that one conversation?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. He called me back, and he was trying to find it.
MR. BRENNAN: Trying to find the address?
MS. MCCABE: Trying to find the house on Fairview.
MR. BRENNAN: Did he ask you for help trying to find the address?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure his exact words, but, yes, he needed help, and so I just said -- I told him just go down the street, go by (c) 's house. It's at the bottom of the street.
MR. BRENNAN: So you used (c) 's house as a point of designation to try to guide him to get him to your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us who (c) was to John?
MS. MCCABE: (c) is my daughter and John's niece friend. So they're all -- so (c) is friends with my daughter, John's niece.
MR. BRENNAN: And was there any relationship between (c) 's mother and John that you knew of?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MR. JACKSON: May we approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
(Sidebar commences:
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor, this is being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. It's hearsay. The only way she would have any personal knowledge is John O'Keefe and somebody else.
JUDGE CANNONE: What do you say?
MR. BRENNAN: It's motive evidence. It shows what precipitated the argument that was reported by the first responder. I have other evidence supporting the fact that the defendant in fact hear the conversation. I have a number of clips from different media interviews where the defendant acknowledges that that's what the conversation was about. I plan to play those clips after Jen McCabe's testimony.
MR. JACKSON: I have no issue with my client's own statements. It's admissible. This is not the witness to get in front of. She would have absolutely no knowledge of the relationship between (c) and John, if it weren't for hearsay.
JUDGE CANNONE: Do we know that? Do we know that she has no --
MR. JACKSON: I have no evidence that she --
JUDGE CANNONE: -- understanding of the relationship?
MR. JACKSON: I have no evidence otherwise. Otherwise, she would testify to, I'm assuming, she would have testified last time that they spent time with John and (c) 's mother.
JUDGE CANNONE: So I don't not know that, that's why I'm asking.
MR. BRENNAN: That statement clips where the defendant acknowledges that that phone call was about (c) and (c) 's mother, so she herself -- she herself confirms the fact that she knows about that conversation prior to. And so this isn't offered for the truth. It's to give context to the statement.
JUDGE CANNONE: Do you want an instruction if I let it in?
MR. JACKSON: I don't want you to let it in. It's hearsay, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: I understand that. I don't know. Let's see if he can build a foundation as to how she knows that.
MR. BRENNAN: I can play the clips now, but I would preface to the Court, the goal was to play them after the witness testimony.
MR. JACKSON: And the clips are of my client reiterating what her testimony was at the last trial, not specific -- I don't believe. I don't have a memory of it.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yeah, I don't remember what the testimony is you're talking about. What's the clip?
MR. JACKSON: I'm not sure, but my memory, and I could be wrong, but my memory is any reference that my client made in any interview was to the testimony that came in about hearing or not hearing a conversation in the cab of the car concerning passing (c) 's house and what Ms. McCabe interpreted that to mean; in other words, that there was a relationship between her and -- between (c) 's mother and John, and it would have made -- the implication is it would have made Karen jealous. Again, if it's admissible, I don't have any problem dealing with it, but this is hearsay and it's not admissible through this witness I believe.
JUDGE CANNONE: So build a foundation for that.
MR. BRENNAN: I will. Ms. McCabe will not say she knows whether or not the defendant was listening to the conversation. However, the defendant's statements/admissions make clear that she was, and so that is the foundation. If I wait until after Ms. McCabe testifies, it would have no context. And so this is not hearsay. It's providing context to the defendant's admissions.
MR. JACKSON: It is hearsay. It's offered for the truth of the matter asserted that there was a relationship between -- Mr. Brennan just acknowledged I'm using this as motive evidence. The only way it's motive evidence is if it's offered for the truth that John and (c) 's mother had a relationship. His question to Ms. McCabe, if I could just flush out the record, is tell me about the relationship between John and (c) 's mother. I don't believe she has any information about that relationship unless it's built on hearsay, unless she was in the room, at the wedding, in the bedroom with them together, things of that nature, and I don't believe she has that kind of personal knowledge. I think it's just --
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So that's what I'm saying: I don't know. So you can build a foundation that we now or she'll still be on the stand tomorrow. You can see it and then get back to it.
MR. BRENNAN: Well, substantive statements of the defendant can be admitted any time.
JUDGE CANNONE: Right.
MR. BRENNAN: I know the preference is to do it after a witness, but if we're going to have an evidentiary issue at this point, I can play her statements right now. I could ask Ms. McCabe what she knew the relationship between (c) 's mom and John was, and then I can play the defendant's statements.
MR. JACKSON: That's the point, Your Honor, is the -- it's the predicate question that I've got a problem with. What do you believe the relationship was between (c) 's mom and John?
JUDGE CANNONE: I understand and I'm just saying, I don't know if she has an independent basis.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. We can --
JUDGE CANNONE: So that's why I'm saying you can wait until later in your testimony. We can do this outside the presence of the jury, and see if she has an understanding of the relationship.
MR. JACKSON: And I'm happy to take an offer of proof as well. If he wants to, you know, finish up another area and at the end of the day, give me an offer proof. I don't know what she's going to say.
JUDGE CANNONE: That's why I don't want to do it in front of the jury.
MR. JACKSON: Right.
JUDGE CANNONE: So move along. We'll come back to it.
MR. BRENNAN: We can come back.
end of sidebar.)
MR. BRENNAN: May I?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: That second phone good conversation you had with John, you know about what time that was?
MS. MCCABE: I don't. It would be after 12:15, but before 12:30, approximately, between there.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you still driving when you had that conversation?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And at some point, you told us you arrived at your sister's home and went in?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd like to move forward now to when you were inside the house. Tell us generally, when you first got there and saw everybody, what were you doing?
MS. MCCABE: I just sat down at the table. I started talking to them. We listening to music. A typical night.
MR. BRENNAN: Anything standout as far as music or interaction with the group?
MS. MCCABE: No, we were just laughing, telling stories. You know, at one point, I'm not sure if -- at some point, my other nephew had been over my house and had shown me this phone on his phone, and I was -- it was a family inside joke. The video, it was a music video from a long time ago, and so I was telling my other niece and nephew, "Oh, my gosh. You have to see this video. It's hysterical," and then we started playing it and watching it.
MR. BRENNAN: What was the video?
MS. MCCABE: "It's Raining Men."
MR. BRENNAN: Did that got a lot of playtime during that get- together?
MS. MCCABE: Well, I have one sister who sometimes has a little too much to drink, takes out an umbrella and will dance. So it's a family joke.
MR. BRENNAN: While you were at your sister's house, what area of the house were you spending time in?
MS. MCCABE: I was in the kitchen.
MR. BRENNAN: What was the mood of everybody in the house as far as you remember?
MS. MCCABE: Everybody was in a great mood.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there any fighting?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Any arguing?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Any violence?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it a celebratory mood?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: As you were in the house, were you waiting for anybody else that you expect to come?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I was expecting John and Karen to come.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point when you in the kitchen -- let me ask you a little background. As you were in the kitchen of that house, can you see outside from the kitchen area?
MS. MCCABE: They had blinds or something down, but if the blinds were up, you could see out.
MR. BRENNAN: Were the blinds up?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: At any point, were you able to see outside from inside the house?
MS. MCCABE: From the front door, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Is the front door, is it glass?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point when you were with everybody in the celebration, did you have a chance to look outside?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And when you looked outside, what did you see?
MS. MCCABE: I saw a dark SUV out front.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you know who's SUV that was?
MS. MCCABE: I believed it was Karen's.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you see who was in it?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: At that point of night, what does the weather look like from the front door?
MS. MCCABE: It's dark and it's snowing, and I could see, you know, brake lights.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see if that SUV moved at all?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't see the SUV actually move, but I saw it in a few different locations.
MR. BRENNAN: How many times did you look out?
MS. MCCABE: I can't give you an exact number of how many times I looked out. I can tell you I saw the vehicle first straight out from the front door, then I saw it up at the flagpole, and then I saw it further up from the flagpole.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you studying the car at all?
MS. MCCABE: No, it was quick glances.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have any reason to study it?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: What were you expecting was going to happen?
MS. MCCABE: I was expecting John and Karen to come into the house.
MR. BRENNAN: Did they ever make it in the house?
MS. MCCABE: No, they did not.
MR. BRENNAN: As you were waiting, were you doing anything else in addition to waiting for them to come in?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. So I was sitting at the table. Someone made mention of a car out front, so I got up, went to the door, looked out, and then I would go back and go back to the table, and where we were just all laughing, talking, playing music, you know, just hanging out not really thinking much about anything.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever reach out to John when you thought the car out front was the defendant's car with John it, did you ever reach out to him?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: How did you reach out to him?
MS. MCCABE: I texted him.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know if there was a phone call that was made to you before 12:30, seven second phone call?
MS. MCCABE: From John?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes.
MS. MCCABE: I don't.
MR. BRENNAN: You mentioned you had spoken to him about directions. Is that the last time you heard his voice?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When the car was out front, did you exchange text messages or were you simply texting him?
MS. MCCABE: I was texting him.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember what you were texting him?
MS. MCCABE: The first time I said, "Here."
MR. BRENNAN: What do you mean by here?
MS. MCCABE: Like, here, question mark, because that's when I saw the car.
MR. BRENNAN: You were wondering whether that was him?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you send any other text messages that you can remember?
MS. MCCABE: After I saw the car move locations, when I saw it go up to the flagpole, I said pull behind me.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you remember any other communications you had with him? Was he texting you anything?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did he ever text you again that night?
MS. MCCABE: He never texted me again.
MR. BRENNAN: Never called again?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you continue to text him over the next 15, 20 minutes?
MS. MCCABE: I did, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And so at some point, did you realize that John O'Keefe and the defendant weren't coming anymore?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, when the car was gone.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever go about side through the storm down to the flagpole to speak to them?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Why not?
MS. MCCABE: Why would I?
MR. BRENNAN: I'm just asking.
MS. MCCABE: I had no reason to.
MR. BRENNAN: So when you were in the house at some point, did you notice that that car was gone?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you marking the time or keeping track of it?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: After you didn't see the defendant's car anymore, did you stay?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: How long do you think you stayed for at the house?
MS. MCCABE: I stayed until around 1:30, 1:45-ish.
MR. BRENNAN: Did anybody else come in the house up until 1:45?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did people leave at certain times?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, people did leave.
MR. BRENNAN: Who was the first to leave?
MS. MCCABE: Brian Higgins.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember about what time he left?
MS. MCCABE: I don't.
MR. BRENNAN: And after Mr. Higgins left, do you know who left?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure -- I believe it was us, and then my niece Caitlin was also, like, at the door. It was kind of in a row. Brian left and then a little bit later, I think it was, myself, Matt, Julie, and Sarah left, but Caitlin was at the door. I believe she was waiting for her ride.
MR. BRENNAN: How much long after Mr. Higgins left did you leave?
MS. MCCABE: Maybe a half -- I honestly can't say. I think he was there for a while I was there. So maybe he left anywhere from 15 -- approximately 15, 20 minutes before I did or maybe a little more.
MR. BRENNAN: You had mentioned that you left the Waterfall after midnight?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And you had phone calls with Mr. O'Keefe along the way?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know that there are phone records with your text messages and phone calls in them?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you know whether your phone records reflect the time of your phone calls with Mr. O'Keefe?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And your text messages?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were texting Mr. O'Keefe, when the Lexus or the car was in front of the house, was Mr. Higgins still there?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: What are some the things that everybody did along that night before you left? What happened in there?
MS. MCCABE: What happened inside the house? Nothing. We basically just sat around the table, talked, laughed, listen to music, chitchatted.
MR. BRENNAN: Celebratory?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there ever, ever any fighting?
MS. MCCABE: No, none at all.
MR. BRENNAN: Any arguing?
MS. MCCABE: None at all.
MR. BRENNAN: Any physical interaction?
MS. MCCABE: No, none.
MR. BRENNAN: When you decided to leave that night, you say around 1:45-ish?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you left around 1:45, was there any events that happened that night that would cause you unrest or excitement or your heartbeat to raise?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: When you decided to leave, you and your husband, where were going to go?
MS. MCCABE: We were dropping off Julie Nagel and Sarah Levinson and then we were going home.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you planned on dropping them off earlier in the night?
MS. MCCABE: No. When we got there, Julie's brother had pulled up to pick them up and she --
MR. BRENNAN: I don't want to ask what was said because you weren't there. A Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did you come to an understanding that you would give them a ride home?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you offer?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Who was going to drive home between you and your husband?
MS. MCCABE: Matt drove home.
MR. BRENNAN: When you left, I want you describe as you step out into the driveway or the walkway, was it the front door or side door if you remember?
MS. MCCABE: I walked out the front door.
MR. BRENNAN: Is the weather like it was when you first got there?
MS. MCCABE: No, it's picked up.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us what you mean by it's picked up?
MS. MCCABE: So as I walk out, you kind of go -- the walkway is to the left. So I walked down the stops, I go to the left. The snow was coming. It was cold. The wind was picking up. So I kind of just, like, curled up and ran into my car quick to get in.
MR. BRENNAN: What part of the car did you get in?
MS. MCCABE: Front passenger.
MR. BRENNAN: Who was driving?
MS. MCCABE: Matt.
MR. BRENNAN: And where were the other two people?
MS. MCCABE: Sarah and Julie were in the back seat.
MR. BRENNAN: Who was in what spot?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not exactly sure.
MR. BRENNAN: So both of the young women were in the backseat?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there any conversation when you got into the car?
MS. MCCABE: We got in the car, and they were teasing me.
MR. BRENNAN: Why were they teasing you?
MS. MCCABE: Because I had, like, bread and maybe peanut butter in my car.
MR. BRENNAN: What did you have bread and peanut butter in your car?
MS. MCCABE: I had had my niece for the week, and I was taking -- I was driver her, like, to all my kids' sporting events. So we'd go from, like, one game to another game to a practice. So sometimes instead of always giving her McDonald's or Dunkin' Donuts, I'd try to throw her a peanut butter sandwich.
MR. BRENNAN: And they were making fun of you?
MS. MCCABE: Yeah.
MR. BRENNAN: As the car backs out of the driveway, tell us what you're doing?
MS. MCCABE: I'm talking to the girls (demonstrating).
MR. BRENNAN: You just moved your head.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Does that mean anything?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. So I kind of -- they were both sitting behind me, so I was, like, turning, and, you know, chatting and talking.
MR. BRENNAN: After your husband pulls out the driveway, did you start to drive home?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: If the house is on my right as you're driving, are you in the passenger seat closest to the house or furthest away?
MS. MCCABE: Passenger seat closest.
MR. BRENNAN: So you're driving. If you look at a picture of the house, you would be driving from right to left?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: So as you start to drive or your husband starts to drive the car, what direction are you looking in, if you remember?
MS. MCCABE: The backseat.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you drive by the front of the house, do you know?
MS. MCCABE: We pulled out of the driveway and went up Chapman.
MR. BRENNAN: And did your husband and you pass by the front of the house?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you pass by the flagpole?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you looking at the flagpole?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: And how dark was it at that point?
MS. MCCABE: It was dark.
MR. BRENNAN: Snow?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: As you're passing the flagpole, do you hear or see anything remarkable?
MS. MCCABE: No, I'm not really paying attention. I'm just chatting to the girls, and Matt's just focusing on driving.
MR. BRENNAN: When you're talking to the girls and they're making fun of you, what's the mood in the car?
MS. MCCABE: We're all laughing and joking.
MR. BRENNAN: Where do you go next?
MS. MCCABE: We drive Julie Nagel.
MR. BRENNAN: After you drop off Ms. Nagel, where do you go?
MS. MCCABE: We drop off the Sarah Levinson.
MR. BRENNAN: Is the weather constant?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: After you drop off the young woman in separate spots, where do you go?
MS. MCCABE: We went home.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you tell us when you get home, what happens next?
MS. MCCABE: We go in the house. I go up to bed. Matt makes himself a snack, and then joins me upstairs.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you have a telephone?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: An iPhone?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you go to bed, do you stay up at all?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you use your iPhone?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I do.
MR. BRENNAN: What were you doing?
MS. MCCABE: I texted a few people, and then I did a couple of Google searches.
MR. BRENNAN: What were the searches for?
MS. MCCABE: One, my daughter had played in a basketball game earlier in the night, and it was a very good game, so I went and I read the report on it. And then my other daughter had an offer to play on a basketball team. So we had to make a decision about whether or not we were going to accept the spot, so I was just looking up that basketball club.
MR. BRENNAN: Other than those regular searches that one would do, was there anything remarkable about what you were searching at 2:27 in that time frame?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: After you were looking at websites for your child's sports, what did you do?
MS. MCCABE: I put my phone down and went to sleep.
MR. BRENNAN: And up to that point, had there been any discord or fighting or arguments in your world?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Peaceful night?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you go to sleep, Ms. McCabe?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you sleep through the night?
MS. MCCABE: I typically get up to go to the bathroom, so I could have gotten up possibly to go to the bathroom.
MR. BRENNAN: Did anything remarkable happen in the early morning hours of January 29, 2022, that changed that peaceful mood into something else?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: I want you to share with the jury the first thing that happens that changes everything.
MS. MCCABE: At 4:53, my phone rings, and I look at my caller ID. I look at the phone and it's (c) , John's niece.
MR. BRENNAN: Who is (c) ?
MS. MCCABE: John's niece. And I say, hello, and she said, yeah -- well, basically she related to me that --
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Next question.
MR. BRENNAN: When you pick up the phone, could you hear a voice on the other end?
MS. MCCABE: I heard a voice and a lot of screaming.
MR. BRENNAN: And the voice you heard, was that (c) John's niece?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And the screaming, was it a man or a woman screaming?
MS. MCCABE: It was a woman.
MR. BRENNAN: How loud was that person screaming?
MS. MCCABE: Very loud.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you make out anything that person was saying as they were screaming?
MS. MCCABE: My name was screamed a lot, and then the other individual ended up getting on the phone with me.
MR. BRENNAN: And who was that person that was screaming in the background?
MS. MCCABE: Ms. Read.
MR. BRENNAN: How long was she screaming for while you were speaking to your niece before you spoke to her?
MS. MCCABE: The entire time I was speaking to (c) , she was screaming.
MR. BRENNAN: Describe her demeanor?
MS. MCCABE: Ms. Read's?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes. "Jen, Jen," and then she's weeping that John didn't come home. She left him at the Waterfall. She was hysterical. It was very hard to follow what she was saying.
MR. BRENNAN: How long did that first call last for?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure how long. Possibly a few minutes, but it was loud enough and long enough that my husband shot up in bed thinking one of my kids had come in the room screaming.
MR. BRENNAN: Without saying what your niece said, can you describe your niece's demeanor when you first spoke to her -- I mean John's niece's demeanor?
MS. MCCABE: I would say (c) sound concerned, uneasy.
MR. BRENNAN: During that phone call, other than the screaming and the screaming of your name, did the defendant give you any information other than she had dropped John off at the Waterfall? A They had gotten into a fight. She had left him there, and he didn't come home.
MR. BRENNAN: When you woke up, were you in a sleep when you were woken up?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I was sound asleep.
MR. BRENNAN: What was your mental state like when you first woke up and got that call?
MS. MCCABE: Well, I had been up late. (c) , so I was definitely a big groggy when I first woke up. So immediately, I just wanted to help her. She was hysterical. (c) was upset. So I went into that kind of mom mode of what can I do, how can I help. So I immediately was, like, thinking, okay, well if you left him at the Waterfall, let me think how -- who was still there, or, you know, how can I help you, how can we find John.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you have a plan when you ended that first call?
MS. MCCABE: I did. I knew Chris Albert had still been at the Waterfall when I left, so I thought if Karen and John had gotten into a fight, maybe Chris had walked out of the bar and they had -- Chris lived local to the bar, thought maybe he -- they walked back to Chris's together.
MR. BRENNAN: So what did you do?
MS. MCCABE: So I called Chris Albert's wife Julie.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you speak to her?
MS. MCCABE: No, she never answered.
MR. BRENNAN: After you had a moment to make a phone call and think about things, did your head become any more clearer?
MS. MCCABE: It did, and I was, you know, reminded by my husband that we had seen Karen and John's car outside of Fairview.
MR. BRENNAN: When he reminded you, did you independently remember the text messages that you sent to John earlier that evening?
MS. MCCABE: Immediately. I was like, oh my God, you're right.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you remember that you had seen what you believed to be the defendant's car in front out of the house near the flagpole?
MR. JACKSON: Objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Watch the form.
MR. BRENNAN: What did you remember? What came to mind after you spoke to your husband about your memory from earlier that evening?
MS. MCCABE: The minute he said it, I remember seeing the SUV and then all the text -- the text messages that I had had and the phone conversation with John.
MR. BRENNAN: So after the defendant spoke to you and said she had left the defendant at the Waterfall, and you had time to think about your memory, did you react or do anything with that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I believe I called (c) back.
MR. BRENNAN: Why did you call (c) ?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't have Ms. Read's phone number.
MR. BRENNAN: When you called (c) back, did you speak to anybody?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I believe (c) and then Ms. Read.
MR. BRENNAN: When you first spoke to (c) , could you hear anything other than (c) ?
MS. MCCABE: The screaming.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it any different or was it similar to the first time you spoke by phone?
MS. MCCABE: Similar to the first time.
MR. BRENNAN: Regarding the demeanor and intensity, had it change at all?
MS. MCCABE: Not at all.
MR. BRENNAN: You mentioned the first time that you had that phone call the defendant was screaming your name?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: "Jen, Jen," was she saying your name in the second call or was it just general screaming?
MS. MCCABE: My name and then when she got on the phone, I had told her, "Karen, I saw you guys outside of my sister's house," and then she told me she didn't remember being there, and then she went on to -- she started saying, "Could I have hit him? Did I hit him?" And then she just was just all over the place. Like screaming my name, screaming so many different things, she was hard to follow or understand.
MR. BRENNAN: When she was saying to you, "Did I hit him? Could I have hit him," was that before or after you informed her that you had seen her out front of your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: It was after I told her that. She also informed me that she had cracked her taillight.
MR. BRENNAN: In that conversation she told you that?
MS. MCCABE: In one of the conversations I had with her in my bedroom, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you told her that you had seen her out front, and she had said that she didn't remember that night, was that before or after she was saying, "Did I hit him? Could I have hit him?"
MS. MCCABE: Can you repeat the question? Sorry.
MR. BRENNAN: When she was telling you about that she didn't remember that night, is that before or after you had told her about seeing her car?
MS. MCCABE: When I said I saw you -- her at Fairview, then her response was she didn't even remember going there.
MR. BRENNAN: Did she ever deny that she came to Mr. O'Keefe's house -- I mean, to your sister's house?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: When she told you or said to you, "Did I hit him," or, "Could have I hit him," or something like that, did you have any idea what she was talking about?
MS. MCCABE: No, I didn't pay attention to it.
MR. BRENNAN: When she told you that she had cracked her taillight the night before, did that have any significance at that time to you? A No.
MR. BRENNAN: So in telling you these different things, did you ever piece them together at that time?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: What was your primary motivation at that point?
MS. MCCABE: I just wanted to help her because she was hysterical. (c) was very upset, so I wanted to help her, and I wanted to find John.
MR. BRENNAN: So after she told you these things about whether she could have hit her and the light and not remembering, did the conversation end or did it progress?
MS. MCCABE: At some point, we -- I was then going into, like, okay, well if she brought him there and left him there, where was he because he never came in the house, and she doesn't know where he is, so now where could he be? So I started thinking there was another gentleman that was supposed to meet us out at the bar who John was friends with. So I thought, okay, well, in my head I'm thinking maybe they got into a fight. John got out of the car, and he connected with this guy because he was at a party on the street over.
MR. BRENNAN: What was the person's name?
MS. MCCABE: His name is Tom Beatty.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you call him?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you get a chance to speak to him that night?
MS. MCCABE: That morning?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes.
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you call around anywhere else?
MS. MCCABE: I believe I called my sister. I called John. I called Tom Beatty. I called his daughter.
MR. BRENNAN: You called John O'Keefe's phone?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did he answer?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did it go right to voicemail?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you text anybody?
MS. MCCABE: I honestly don't remember if I texted. I primarily think I was just trying to call as many people as I could and try to figure out what happened.
MR. BRENNAN: So you had two conversations at this point with the defendant while you were still home?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there any further -- was there any further phone calls that you had before you did something?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure if she -- I know I went downstairs to make coffee because my plan was to go with my husband. I said, "Come on. Let's just go off to Tom Beatty's. Let's see. Maybe John's there. He passed out on the couch." I'm not sure if Karen called me again or not. It's a little foggy because there was so many calls and everything.
MR. BRENNAN: And so that morning when you were receiving calls, did something happen?
MS. MCCABE: Karen showed up at my house.
MR. BRENNAN: How did you know Karen showed up at your house?
MS. MCCABE: I could hear her screaming out front.
MR. BRENNAN: And about what time was this?
MS. MCCABE: Approximately 5:20, 5:30. I can't be sure.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you worried for John at this point?
MS. MCCABE: Not particularly, no.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you screaming?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Now, at this point, this moment when you could hear her outside your house yelling in the early morning hours, did you know a person by the name of Kerri Roberts?
MS. MCCABE: I knew of her. I met her once.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you friends with her at that time?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you socialized with her at that time?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you ever seen her before with John?
MS. MCCABE: Once.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell me about that.
MS. MCCABE: Years earlier, as I said, earlier I used to take (c) on Friday nights, and Kerri was the one who would take (c) on Friday nights. So we would each have the kids, and to thank us, one day John told us how he had -- he got a discount at Reebok, and to get our kids shoe sizes and he was going to buy us all speakers just as a way to say thank you for helping. So we all went to the store together and then John took Kerri and myself to the Hillside for lunch.
MR. BRENNAN: How many years before this moment was that?
MS. MCCABE: Oh, gosh. Well, I think that's when my daughter was in kindergarten or first grade, and at this point she was in eighth grade, so like seven years.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you ever spent any time with Kerri Robert before this morning?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you friends at that point?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: How would you consider your relationship with Ms. Roberts on that morning before Ms. Read arrived to your home?
MS. MCCABE: I met her once and that was the extent of it. I didn't -- I wouldn't say I knew her at all beyond that one time I went out with her.
MR. BRENNAN: I want you to take us back out when you first hear the defendant in your driveway yelling. When you hear that, did hear have any words or is it generally yelling?
MS. MCCABE: So I hear yelling. So I go to -- I was downstairs making coffee. I go to my front door and I open it, and she's screaming, "Jen, Jen." She's screaming that three times and then she was saying, "We have to go to Fairview." You know, a lot of the, "Could I have hit him? Did I hit him?" Just she was on repeat.
MR. BRENNAN: What did you do?
MS. MCCABE: My husband came running down the hall, and was, like, tell her to shut up. She's going to wake up the neighbors. And then I said I'm just going to go with her. I'm going to go look for John, and then he yelled down saying something like, you can't be driving around in this weather, you know, with a broken taillight.
MR. BRENNAN: When you saw the defendant at your front door, had the weather changed overnight?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it different?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, now the snow had intensified. It was almost like -- it was dark outside, but it was like white out conditions.
MR. BRENNAN: How dark?
MS. MCCABE: Dark. I mean, it was dark. It was like 5:30 in the morning.
MR. BRENNAN: What was the visibility like?
MS. MCCABE: Not good.
MR. BRENNAN: After you meet the defendant at your door, do you let her in or did she stay outside?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure if I just grabbed my coffee and ran out.
MR. BRENNAN: Where did you go?
MS. MCCABE: Or whether she came in. So we walked down -- we went down my walkway. She was just kind of running all around the car, the car -- the driver's door was open, so I told her I was going to drive because I thought she was too hysterical to drive. In the meantime, all of a sudden there was a car at the end of my street and there was a plow behind it.
MR. BRENNAN: The car that came to the end of your street, do you know where it went?
MS. MCCABE: I meant the end of my driveway. I'm sorry.
MR. BRENNAN: When you say at the end of your driveway, did it pull into your driveway?
MS. MCCABE: No, it just kind of stopped right at the base of my driveway.
MR. BRENNAN: How far behind your car was that car?
MS. MCCABE: Not far because -- not too far.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you know who was in that car?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you learn who was in that car?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: How did you learn who was in the car?
MS. MCCABE: Because I said who is that.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ask the defendant or did you --
MS. MCCABE: I asked the defendant and she told me it was Kerri Roberts.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you meet Kerri Roberts face-to-face in your driveway that morning?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I wouldn't say we met. It was more of the plow was coming so then she was having to, like, move down the street, and then either Karen called her or she called Karen, but they were on the phone, Karen's phone, over the car, so they started talking.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you get into the defendant's car?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, we did. I got in the car with Ms. Read.
MR. BRENNAN: When you got in the car, you were the driver's seat, was Ms. Read in the passenger front?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You said it was an open call. Was it something you could hear on the speaker?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: At that point did you have a chance to go and look at the taillight of that car?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have any interest in the taillight at that point?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: There was an open call between who?
MS. MCCABE: Karen and Kerri Roberts.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you describe what you heard in that call?
MS. MCCABE: Karen was saying that you wanted to go to Fairview, and Kerri Roberts was instructing her that, no, we weren't going to be going to Fairview. And she kept saying, "We got to go to your sister's house," and Kerri Roberts said, "No, we're not going to be driving around in this weather in two cars. Let's go back to John's. Let's go to Meadows. Let's see if he's there." That was kind of the conversation, and then Karen was doing a lot of screaming and Kerri was kind of yelling back at her to shut up.
MR. BRENNAN: Who was taking charge of the situation that morning?
MS. MCCABE: Kerri Roberts.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you in charge of it?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you weigh in or make any decisions on where you were going to go next or were you just listening?
MS. MCCABE: I just listened. Kerri said that -- Kerri's kind of a take charge person. She said, "We're going to Meadows," so I said okay. I drove to Meadows.
MR. BRENNAN: At this point, you didn't know Kerri Roberts?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Other than that meeting?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, correct.
MR. BRENNAN: And did you agree to follow her?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: So tell us what happened. Take us through the drive.
MS. MCCABE: She might have followed me. I'm not sure. But we drove back to Meadows, pulled into the driveway.
MR. BRENNAN: So you knew where Meadows was? You had been here many times with the kids?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you think Ms. Roberts may have followed you?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: What was the weather conditions as you were driving?
MS. MCCABE: They were awful. It was -- I was driving very slow, cautiously. It was dark. It was hard to see. It was -- it was that type where the snow was, like, coming at your window.
MR. BRENNAN: How long of a ride was it from your home to John's house?
MS. MCCABE: Approximately five, six minutes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there any other phone calls while you were in the car with Ms. Roberts or did the phone calls end?
MS. MCCABE: I believe that was it.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you describe that defendant's demeanor on the trip from your house to John's house?
MS. MCCABE: She was just screaming, yelling things. It was almost like everything she said, she said three times, and she just went from one thing to the next. She was quite hysterical.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember what she was yelling about?
MS. MCCABE: About going to Fairview, asking could she have hit them, did I hit him.
MR. BRENNAN: How many times did she raise the question did I hit, could I have hit him?
MS. MCCABE: A good amount.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever speak to her about that?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did you finally get to John's home?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you got to John's home, who pulled in the driveway first?
MS. MCCABE: I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Where did you pull in with respect to the driveway?
MS. MCCABE: I just pulled straight in next to the garage.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see where Ms. Roberts went?
MS. MCCABE: I believe she pulled in behind me.
MR. BRENNAN: After you pulled into Meadows, John's home, and you stopped, what happened next?
MS. MCCABE: We go into John's house.
MR. BRENNAN: When you went into John's house, did you all go in the same way?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, we went through the garage.
MR. BRENNAN: Before going into John's home, did you do anything?
MS. MCCABE: Before entering into the house?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes.
MS. MCCABE: I took off my shoes.
MR. BRENNAN: You took off your shoes?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Why did you do that?
MS. MCCABE: Because you always had to take your shoes off at John's. He didn't want you to track -- he would have yelled at me for tracking snow in his house.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see if Kerri took her shoes off or not?
MS. MCCABE: I believe she did.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see whether the defendant took her shoes off or not?
MS. MCCABE: She just walked right in.
MR. BRENNAN: How would you remember that?
MS. MCCABE: Because I thought it was strange.
MR. BRENNAN: What was your purpose when you went into the house? What was the number one thing that you were worried about?
MS. MCCABE: We were looking for John.
MR. BRENNAN: Anything else on you mind as you went into his house?
MS. MCCABE: Also I knew (c) was there.
MR. BRENNAN: At this point, do you have a close relationship with (c) ?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you still?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: What did you do when you went in the house? Where did you go?
MS. MCCABE: I walked through the kitchen and then I kind of peeked into the TV room. I walked through the dining room, and then before I went up the stairs, I kind of peeked into a living room. I went up to the top of the stairs. I peeked into John's room and then I went into (c) 's room.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever see John?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Why did you go to (c) 's room?
MS. MCCABE: Because I wanted to go check on (c) .
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have a chance to speak to her?
MS. MCCABE: I did, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: What was her demeanor at that point?
MS. MCCABE: She was very -- she was in the bed. She was holding onto her phone. She was terrified.
MR. BRENNAN: Was she screaming?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you provide her any comfort?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. I told her that I was going to go out --
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it. A I told (c) that I was going to go out with them, and I was going to find John, and I promised her that everything would be okay.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point you left (c) ?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Where did you go?
MS. MCCABE: I went back downstairs, and then we went out to look for John.
MR. BRENNAN: Before you left John's house that morning, did the defendant show you anything?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. When we were out in the driveway, I had thought it was when we went in, but I think it might have been when we came out, but regardless at one point, when we were in the driveway at Meadows, Karen showed myself and Kerri Roberts the cracked taillight.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you or Ms. Roberts get close to the taillight at that point?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, we walked over and the taillight was missing pieces.
MR. BRENNAN: Did Ms. Roberts have any comment about it?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, Ms. Roberts --
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: So she had a comment. Next question.
MR. BRENNAN: What was Ms. Roberts' demeanor at that point?
MS. MCCABE: She was frustrated with Karen. Had said that --
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: No, I'll allow that. A You know, had said that Karen -- basically was telling her to shut up. You were so drunk you don't -- you could have hit anything last night, and then Kerri -- I remember just thinking, all right, let's go, and I remember Kerri thinking, oh, someone's going to get --
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: We don't want to get into what somebody thought.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: We want to know what you heard and what you saw. Okay?
MS. MCCABE: Yeah.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point when you looking at the taillight of the missing pieces with the defendant and Ms. Roberts, did you see Ms. Roberts point anything out?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Share that with us.
MS. MCCABE: She pointed a piece that was sticking out and was concerned that someone was going to catch their coat or something on it.
MR. BRENNAN: And during that time when the defendant was showing you the taillight and missing pieces, was she saying anything about it?
MS. MCCABE: No, not that I can recall right now.
MR. BRENNAN: You mentioned at some point she was saying, did I or could I have hit him after you left John's house. Was that in the car or before you got in the car?
MS. MCCABE: I know for a fact it was definitely in the car was one of the times, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Ms. Roberts' car is parked behind the defendant's car in John's driveway?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there a decision made to take one or two cars?
MS. MCCABE: One car.
MR. BRENNAN: What was the plan?
MS. MCCABE: The plan was to get into Kerri's car and to go and look for John. I wanted to go -- thinking let's go to Tom Beatty's but Ms. Read was pretty adamant that we go to Fairview first.
MR. BRENNAN: You said that at times there was some arguing or bickering or Ms. Roberts was raising her voice to the defendant?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Who made the decision to go to Fairview?
MS. MCCABE: Ultimately, Kerri said, all right, we'll go there almost, like, to shut her up.
MR. BRENNAN: When you got in the car, where was everybody -- when you got into Kerri Robert's car, where was everybody sitting?
MS. MCCABE: Kerri was driving, I was in front in the passenger, Karen was back in the middle kind of peeking her head through between us.
MR. BRENNAN: Now, I want you to take us through the ride from John's house at Meadows until you first get to Fairview. As you pull out of or Kerri Roberts pulls out of John's driveway, what is the mood inside of that car?
MS. MCCABE: I'd say it was starting to get tense because Karen was just continuously screaming. Kerri was trying to focus on driving and Karen's behavior in the back of the car was a bit erratic.
MR. BRENNAN: When you say erratic, can you give some detail what you mean by that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. She would go from sitting back to leaning up in between us, and she would yell Kerri's name three times. Then she would yell my name three times, and then she would yell, could I hit him, did I hit him over and over again.
MR. BRENNAN: When she was repeating these questions or phrases that she was yelling, did you respond in anyway?
MS. MCCABE: I don't believe I did, no.
MR. BRENNAN: How about Kerri?
MS. MCCABE: Kerri was telling her to shut up and to buckle up.
MR. BRENNAN: Was she buckled?
MS. MCCABE: I don't believe so.
MR. BRENNAN: You began your drive from Mr. O'Keefe's home at Meadows to Fairview, is the weather getting better?
MS. MCCABE: No, it's getting worse.
MR. BRENNAN: Is the visibility still difficult?
MS. MCCABE: It was terrible.
MR. BRENNAN: As you began that drive to Fairview, was there anything that you were doing on the way?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I was just kind of looking out the window intently to see if I saw anything.
MR. BRENNAN: What were you looking for?
MS. MCCABE: I guess John, which I know it sounds crazy, but I didn't know where the hell he was.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it -- did you have any difficulty seeing from the car at the side the road?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see what direction Ms. Roberts was looking when she was driving?
MS. MCCABE: Well, she, you know, it was hard because she needed to focus on driving because the conditions were that bad.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have a chance to see the defendant on that drive at all?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was she looking out the windows with you?
MS. MCCABE: No, she was popping back-and-forth, back-and-forth and screaming.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it a constant screaming or did it change at all?
MS. MCCABE: She would scream and then kind of sit back and she'd almost be quiet for a minute, was like, okay, good, and then she'd start again.
MR. BRENNAN: In those quiet times, do you know what, if anything, she was doing?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't know what she was doing that morning, no.
MR. BRENNAN: How long did it take to get to Fairview?
MS. MCCABE: I don't know. I'm going to assume maybe ten minutes. Like, with the weather, maybe ten minutes. I'm not -- give or take, approximately.
MR. BRENNAN: As you're approaching 34 Fairview Road, before you get there, is Fairview going to be on your left side, the driver's side, or on the right side?
MS. MCCABE: As we were pulling up, it's on the driver side. Kerri's going to take a left down Fairview off of Chapman.
MR. BRENNAN: I want you to take us back to that morning about 20 or 30 yards before you get to Fairview. You're in the car with Ms. Roberts and the defendant?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: What's happening?
MS. MCCABE: Karen's continue -- is screaming, and at that point, she had asked if John could be cheating on her, and if John could be with (c) 's mom.
MR. BRENNAN: Then what happened?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't know what the hell she was talking. I was like, what are you talking about, why would he be with (c) 's mom, and then Kerri said, well, do you think he could have walked to -- there was another woman years before that John had dated who lived on the next street over to her house.
MR. BRENNAN: And as you approached that area before you get to the flagpole, does anything remarkable happen?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: What happens next?
MS. MCCABE: As were driving down the street, I just say to Kerri, because she doesn't know where my sister lives, oh, her house is just at the bottom of the street.
MR. BRENNAN: Visibility still difficult?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, awful
MR. BRENNAN: What happens next?
MS. MCCABE: We continue, you know, driving, and we kind of were driving slowly past, you know, the line of I guess bushes and the flagpole area, and all of a sudden Karen's screaming from the back, there he is, or something. Something to effect of there he is, let me out.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know what she was talking about?
MS. MCCABE: I had no idea.
MR. BRENNAN: When she was yelling, did you look out the window?
MS. MCCABE: Yeah, we were like -- we had our eyes peeled out the window.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see anything?
MS. MCCABE: Nothing but snow.
MR. BRENNAN: How long was she yelling about whatever it is she was saying?
MS. MCCABE: Kerri -- I mean, she screamed stop, so Kerri stopped pretty quickly. There he is. There he is. She could have kicked the door, like let me out of here.
MR. BRENNAN: When she was kicking the door, what were you doing?
MS. MCCABE: I was just like what the heck -- what is going on.
MR. BRENNAN: What happens next?
MS. MCCABE: She gets out. Kerri looks to me and said something -- said like, she's bat shit crazy.
MR. BRENNAN: Then what happened?
MS. MCCABE: Then Kerri got out. Then I got out of the car, walked around the back of the car, and was walking like over to where I could see the girls were.
MR. BRENNAN: Now at that point you were in Kerri Roberts' car?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You had your headlights on?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Facing up the street of Fairview?
MS. MCCABE: Well, we had come down the hill, so, yes, up the street.
MR. BRENNAN: There was no other lighting in that area?
MS. MCCABE: I do not believe so.
MR. BRENNAN: No fire engines or ambulances at that point?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: No police cars?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Any streetlights?
MS. MCCABE: It was dark.
MR. BRENNAN: When you got out of the car, did you look towards the area of the flagpole?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you see anything at that point?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. BRENNAN: How close did you get to the area of the flagpole before you could first actually see something?
MS. MCCABE: Well, I saw the shadowy figures of Kerri and Karen, and it wasn't until I got very close over to them that I saw -- I saw Kerri removing the snow from John's face.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that the first moment you realized that that was John O'Keefe of the ground?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it was.
MR. BRENNAN: When you see Kerri removing the snow from John's face, what do you do?
MS. MCCABE: I was frozen. I was shocked. I couldn't believe that was him just lying there.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us what you're seeing.
MS. MCCABE: What do I see? I see Kerri just wiping the snow off. Karen had straddled him and had lifted her shirt and his shirt and was laying on him, and Kerri was screaming at her to get off of him. And I was literally just stunned. I mean, there he was.
MR. BRENNAN: What did John look like when you saw him?
MS. MCCABE: I couldn't see much but his face because the rest was snow and Karen was moving over him, but he just -- like just him but just, like, frozen.
MR. BRENNAN: What did you do?
MS. MCCABE: At first I just stood there for a minute because I couldn't believe it was him. And then Kerri Roberts and I made eye contact, and I, like, knew. I was, like, all right. I'm going to call 911. but I think I knew in that moment that John -- that John, you know, was dead.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you call 911?
MS. MCCABE: Yeah, I started to call 911, and Kerri and Karen were just screaming, and so I walked back towards Kerri's car and then Kerri was also yelling at me to go to the back of the car to look for blankets and towels. So as I was calling 911, I was at the back of the car looking for the towels and the blankets to bring over to Kerri. And while I was doing that, I believe 911 answered.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you speak to 911?
MS. MCCABE: I did, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you get the towels and the blankets that Kerri had requested?
MS. MCCABE: I did, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: After your phone call to 911, and you had the towels and the blankets, tells us what happens next.
MS. MCCABE: So after I called 911, I went back over to Kerri, Karen, and John. And at that point, Kerri asked if I would take over compressions. So she got up and I started doing compressions, and Karen was doing mouth-to-mouth.
MR. BRENNAN: When you started doing compressions, were you touching John over his clothes or touching his skin?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you at that point get a chance to touch John's body and see how it felt temperature-wise?
MS. MCCABE: I just remember when I was doing the compressions, it just -- I don't really know how to explain it. It just felt very funny.
MR. BRENNAN: I'm sorry?
MS. MCCABE: It wasn't just, like, normal. I don't ... I can't think of how to describe the way it felt when I was trying to press down, but it was like resistance.
MR. BRENNAN: How long did you try to give compressions to aid John?
MS. MCCABE: Until the police came.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Brennan, why don't we end here.
(Testimony ends at 5:08 p.m.)