Nicholas Guarino — Cross

MR. YANNETTI: Trooper Guarino, you've testified that you disagree in many respects with the findings of the defense expert Rick Green, which he outlined in his affidavit submitted in connection with this case, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: You majored in criminal justice and mass communications, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: You chose not to major in computer science, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Two years after graduating, you became a patrolman in Norwood, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: The town of Norwood is right next to Canton; is it not?

MR. YANNETTI: You stayed as a patrolman in Norwood for ten years with the Norwood Police Department, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: You then became a Massachusetts state trooper in 2015?

MR. YANNETTI: And you spent four years in the patrol division of the Mass. State Police, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And that was until 2019?

MR. YANNETTI: And 2019 was the first time that you took a forensic computer course; would you agree with that?

MR. YANNETTI: Would you agree with me that since then, your training has mainly consisted of online courses and webinars.

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Okay. Well, you list, with regard to your training, some in person trainings, sir, but you had list one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen -- actually, over twenty online courses; do you not?

MR. YANNETTI: Well, 2019 was not during COVID, was it?

MR. YANNETTI: All right.

MR. YANNETTI: I got you. But you say 2019 to 2020, in terms of your online courses and webinars, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. And with regard to some of the courses that you were taking during that time period, would you agree with me that one of them was "Introduction to Computer Networks."

MR. YANNETTI: I didn't ask you where it was from. I asked you whether one of the courses that you took was called "Introduction to Computer Networks"?

MR. YANNETTI: And another course that you took was introduction to cell phone investigations, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: "Introduction to Previewing," correct?

MR. YANNETTI: You hold no degrees in the field of computer forensics, do you?

MR. YANNETTI: You hold no degrees in the field of computer forensics or computer science, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Correct.

MR. YANNETTI: You have no publications in the field of computer forensics, do you?

MR. YANNETTI: And you've never taught a course in computer forensics, have you?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Well, as a Norwood police officer for ten years and a Massachusetts State Trooper for nine years, you would agree that you've written a lot of police reports over the years; have you not?

MR. YANNETTI: Prior to becoming a Norwood police officer back in 2005, you attended a police academy, right?

MR. YANNETTI: And at the academy, one area of focus was the proper way to write a police report, was it not?

MR. YANNETTI: You were taught that it's important to write police reports close in time to the events in question while they're still freshest in your memory, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So is it your testimony before this jury that it's preferable to wait months before you submit a police report on something that happened months ago, sir?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. But once the information is received that you need to write a police report, would you agree with me that it's important to record it in a report as soon as you can?

MR. YANNETTI: So I think you just answered my question. You said as soon as the data is available and you've completed your investigation --

MR. YANNETTI: Well let's say you've completed your investigation, sir. You're going to argue with me that it's preferable not to wait to record that data in a report?

MR. YANNETTI: You were also taught that it's important to include all the important details in your police report, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So in other words, there are times when you're writing a police report when you intentionally leave out important details, Trooper, is that your testimony before this jury?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay.

MR. YANNETTI: So you would agree with me, going back to my question, that it is important to include all the important details in your report; is it not?

MR. YANNETTI: One purpose of writing a police report is to share information with your fellow investigators; is it not?

MR. YANNETTI: Another purpose of writing a police report is to be fair to the people that you're investigating by explaining as best you can what happened, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. The fact is you did write some early police reports in this case dated February 4, 2022, just six days after John O'Keefe was found mortally wounded on Brian Albert's front lawn, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: When you wrote those police reports, you knew this was a homicide investigation, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: So that underscored the importance of being accurate and truthful, correct, especially in a homicide investigation?

MR. YANNETTI: And the purpose of one of your February 4, 2022, reports was to explain how you came into possession of John O'Keefe's cell phone, and to note the extraction that you did on the phone. Do you recall that report?

MR. YANNETTI: And before writing that particular report, you spoke with Trooper Michael Proctor, did you not?

MR. YANNETTI: I'm sorry?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And when you received the phone, the two of you did not remain mute, right? The two of you chatted?

MR. YANNETTI: But there was a conversation, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And you recorded what Michael Proctor told you about that cell phone in your February 4, 2022, report, did you not?

MR. YANNETTI: Michael Proctor told you that on Saturday, January 29th of 2022, he and Sergeant Bukhenik had responded to 34 Fairview Road in Canton; did he not?

MR. YANNETTI: Well, you wrote in your very first sentence in that report the following, quote, on Saturday, January 29 --

MR. YANNETTI: -- 2022, Trooper Michael Proctor and Sergeant Yuri Bukhenik of the Norfolk County District Attorney's Office responded to the unattended death of John O'Keefe at 34 Fairview Road in Canton. Those were your words, were they not?

MR. YANNETTI: Did Michael Proctor tell you that he had received or retrieved John O'Keefe's cell phone from 34 Fairview Road in Canton?

MR. YANNETTI: You didn't know where it was retrieved from?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. But you did include in your report that while Proctor and Bukhenik were on scene, they retrieved the cell phone of John O'Keefe, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: I'm asking about your report. You know, I'm questioning you about your report.

MR. YANNETTI: You don't get to explain, sir, most respectfully, until Mr. Lally questions you.

MR. YANNETTI: Of course.

MR. YANNETTI: Can you read the first two lines --

MR. YANNETTI: Can you read the first two lines to the jury, please.

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So you'd agree with me that you included that clause, "While on scene, they secured his phone," did you not?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And that was back on February 4th of 2022, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Within six days of John O'Keefe being found mortally wounded on Albert's lawn, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And at that time you knew that the crime scene was 34 Fairview Road, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Yet you put in your report, "while on scene," did you not?

MR. YANNETTI: But you'd agree with me that the Canton Police Department wasn't the crime scene, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay, well, Canton Police Department was not the scene of any crime, was it?

MR. YANNETTI: You don't know if the Canton Police Department was the scene of a crime, is that --

MR. YANNETTI: You don't think it was. Okay. Now, in that report, you were trying to establish the chain of custody of that phone, right? Because you described where it was found, where it was taken and who had possession of it, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Well, hold on a second. Again, we're focusing on your report.

MR. YANNETTI: As opposed to details you want to fill in now, okay?

MR. YANNETTI: With regard to you just testified that you never said where it was taken yet, previously you said it was taken to you, was it not?

MR. YANNETTI: Did Trooper Proctor take the phone to you and hand --

MR. YANNETTI: -- it to you?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So it was taken to you, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. So you described in your report where it was found, because you said, "while on scene," correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And where it was taken, it was taken to you correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And who had possession of it, which was initially Trooper Proctor in terms of your observations, and then you, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And you would agree with me the chain of custody of a piece of evidence is an important detail in any criminal investigation, isn't it?

MR. YANNETTI: Would you agree with me that someone reading your report or listening to it, as the jury listened today, would understand you to be saying that Michael Proctor seized John O'Keefe's cell phone at 34 Road in Canton?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. I'd like to ask you some questions about the extraction that you discussed in that same February 4, 2022, report, the very same report. In that report, after you name the tools that you use to extract data from the phone, you indicated that a copy of that cell phone extraction was placed on a state police server, or was it a DA's office server?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. On a server so that it could be accessed there, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: But that extraction you placed on the server did not include all the potential data on John O'Keefe's phone, did it?

MR. YANNETTI: Well, didn't you indicate in your report that the extraction was not inclusive of all potential data contained within the device?

MR. YANNETTI: Well, the extraction that you did contained communications, iOS messages, phone calls, social media communications between John O'Keefe and Karen Read, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And it contained communications between John O'Keefe and Jennifer McCabe?

MR. YANNETTI: It contained communications between John O'Keefe and Kerry Roberts?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. But it did not include any communications between John O'Keefe and Julie Albert, did it?

MR. YANNETTI: And again, I'm talking about that initial extraction. That initial one didn't include any communications between John O'Keefe and Chris Albert, did it?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. That extraction report also did not include any location data, did it?

MR. YANNETTI: You didn't note any location data in that initial report, did you?

MR. YANNETTI: Correct.

MR. YANNETTI: All right.

MR. YANNETTI: When was the first time that you reported on location data in this case?

MR. YANNETTI: It wasn't until April of 2023, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Well, I didn't ask you if there was a reason for it, sir. You understood my question, didn't you?

MR. YANNETTI: And we're talking about John O'Keefe's phone now here?

MR. YANNETTI: You did not report on the location data on John O'Keefe's phone until April of 2023, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And you also did not report on any Apple Health data until the spring of 2023, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So Trooper Proctor had access to the phone first, and then you took care of it, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And you would agree with me that you didn't address John O'Keefe's health or location data in any formal report until that April 23, report, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Right. And you submitted your report in April of 2023, after you became aware of an affidavit filed by the defense expert Rick Green in which Mr. Green extracted and analyzed John O'Keefe's location data and his movements according to Apple Health Data; isn't that correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Before Rick Green submitted that affidavit, no member of the state police homicide investigation team, including you, had ever looked at, or at least reported on the location data for anyone present at 34 Fairview, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: The -- for John -- for John O'Keefe's device, for Jennifer McCabe's device.

MR. YANNETTI: All right. But you didn't, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Right. So you hadn't looked at John O'Keefe's location data in particular prior to Richard Green pointing out the location data in his affidavit, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: (Indiscernible), correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Same with Jennifer McCabe's location data, you didn't report on that either, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. You didn't report on Brian Albert's or Colin Albert's, or Brian Higgins' location data, would you agree with that?

MR. YANNETTI: But when you finally did check the location data, I want to ask you about your testimony on direct examination that you believe that at a certain point with regard to John O'Keefe's phone, the accuracy of the GPS points was within 3 feet; do you remember that testimony?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Can you show me where in any of your reports you specify that the GPS points are accurate within 3 feet?

MR. YANNETTI: You reports. Yeah, no, any -- reports that you have in front of you or any that you reviewed. Where is that?

MR. YANNETTI: Is it in writing anywhere, sir?

MR. YANNETTI: Which report is that?

MR. YANNETTI: The May of 2023 report?

MR. YANNETTI: All right.

MR. YANNETTI: If I may just have a moment.

MR. YANNETTI: Hang on. Would you agree with me in paragraph 9, there is nothing that mentions that the accuracy is within 3 feet?

MR. YANNETTI: No. I'm asking you about a report that you authored that you just mentioned to this jury.

MR. YANNETTI: I'm not asking you to read it.

MR. YANNETTI: You were mentioning paragraph 12 and you --

MR. YANNETTI: -- and you were talking about one particular spot in that, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right.

MR. YANNETTI: Now, with regard to John O'Keefe's phone, would you agree with me that it's important to properly handle and secure a cell phone that is seized in connection with a homicide investigation?

MR. YANNETTI: Was it important in this investigation to properly handle and secure John O'Keefe's cell phone since he was the homicide victim?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Well, you testified that the first time you reported on in your investigation or your evaluation of the location data, that was in your April 24, 2023, report?

MR. YANNETTI: And in that report, you revealed that you looked at his location data using Axiom software, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And Axiom is a competitor of Cellebrite?

MR. YANNETTI: And Axiom is relied on by law enforcement across the country?

MR. YANNETTI: And you relied on it here in terms of this issue of the location data, did you not?

MR. YANNETTI: And regarding the location data that you examined with regard to John O'Keefe's phone, you noticed or you noted, I should say, that after a period of no speed having been registered for a period of time, John O'Keefe's cell phone started registering movement at 6:04 or 6:15 a.m.?

MR. YANNETTI: 6:15 a.m. And that's actually 6:15 and 36 seconds, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Sounds right?

MR. YANNETTI: And at that point, his phone registered a speed of .0484 meters per second?

MR. YANNETTI: Sure.

MR. YANNETTI: Point zero four eight four meters per second?

MR. YANNETTI: And that's at 6:15 and 36 seconds?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. So now, as you were examining that data, sir, you certainly knew from this investigation by that point that when the phone was moving, according to that data, at 6:15 and 36 seconds on January 29th of 2022, John O'Keefe had already been found mortally wounded and incapacitated, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay.

MR. YANNETTI: I think we're talking over each other here --

MR. YANNETTI: -- because what I'm asking is you knew that by 6:15 and 30 seconds in the morning on January 29, John O'Keefe had already been incapacitated and mortally wounded. That was my question.

MR. YANNETTI: So you knew from your investigation that that mean -- meant it could not have been John O'Keefe moving with his phone at 6:15 and 36 seconds, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: It had to be somebody else, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Would you agree with me that once investigators took possession of John O'Keefe's phone, any movement of his phone after that would not help in your homicide investigation, would it?

MR. YANNETTI: Well, in other words, John O'Keefe's been incapacitated.

MR. YANNETTI: Somebody from law enforcement seizes his phone. Would it help your investigation, or the investigation of the Norfolk detective's unit to track and record location data on that phone after 6:15 a.m.?

MR. YANNETTI: (Indiscernible.) I didn't ask if it's there. I know it's there. I am asking you, does that help you in your investigation of a potential -- or of a homicide, to track the phone and have that location data recorded on the phone after John O'Keefe could not have been the one moving with it?

MR. YANNETTI: In fact, if the phone is manipulated in some way after investigators take possession of it, that could potentially harm an investigation, couldn't it?

MR. YANNETTI: Well, to preserve the integrity of the data on the phone as it existed before the police took custody of the phone, there is a way to stop the phone from recording location data, again after the police take custody of the phone, isn't there?

MR. YANNETTI: Yes. You mentioned on direct examination that it could be accomplished by putting the phone into airplane mode, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: But when that phone was seized, no investigator put the plane into airplane mode that early morning, because you know that location data was found on that phone, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: But you know it wasn't by 6:15 a.m., correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. And there's also another way to prevent any signal from entering or exiting the phone. You'd agree with that?

MR. YANNETTI: During your direct examination, you mentioned the concept of a Faraday bag.

MR. YANNETTI: A Faraday bag has special fabric that blocks electromagnetic signals entirely, does it not?

MR. YANNETTI: So putting the phone into a Faraday bag would be another way to stop the phone from recording location data while the phone's in police custody, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And you'd agree with me that during that early morning hours, as of 6:15 a.m. and thereafter, no investigator in this case put that phone into a Faraday bag on January 29, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: In fact, after John O'Keefe's cell phone started registering movement at 6:15 and 36 seconds in the morning on January 29, it continued to record location data the rest of the morning until 11:56 and one second a.m. on January 29, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: So you would agree with me that for several hours after the police had the phone, it was not put in a Faraday bag and it was not put into airplane mode, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Now with regard to the voicemails that you've previously testified to and that the jury has heard and they've been introduced into evidence. You had testified on direct examination that Karen Read's phone connected to the WiFi at 1 Meadows Ave. at approximately 12:36 in the morning?

MR. YANNETTI: So you can testify based on that, that by 12:36 in the morning, Karen Read was not at 34 Fairview, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And that was the first of those voicemails that you testified to, correct? That was the I hate you voicemail?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And that voicemail and every other voicemail that the jury heard, was left after Karen had left 34 Fairview, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And except for the one at, you know, after 6:00 in the morning, the four minute one when she went back, you heard that one, but all the other ones were apparently left when she was at 1 Meadows, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: But she wasn't at 34 Fairview, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: So you would agree with me? No one could have, including Jennifer McCabe, could have seen her at 12:45 at 34 Fairview?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Now we've talked about the findings of or the fact that you reviewed the findings of Rick Green by reading the affidavit that he submitted, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And you learned in that affidavit that Rick Green was able to track not only when John O'Keefe arrived at 34 Fairview, but also the route that he and Ms. Read, took to get there on January 29, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: You learned that he was able to accomplish that by examining the data from the app Waze that you spoke of, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. And Waze is spelled W-A-Z-E, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. And you've previously testified it's a commonly used app for driving directions and navigation?

MR. YANNETTI: And regarding your analysis of the phone, you learned that there was Apple Health data from John O'Keefe's phone on January 29th of 2022, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And Apple Health data can reveal a number of steps that a person has taken during a given time period, as well as whether that person is going up or downstairs, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And on John O'Keefe's phone, you learned that there was Apple Health data that tracked his steps from the time he's seen on surveillance video leaving the Waterfall Bar and Grill and moving forward after that, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay.

MR. YANNETTI: And it actually was between twelve-eleven and nine seconds, and then the ending period of that first time period was twelve-twenty-one and five seconds? And --

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. From the Apple Health. And the data showed that he took a total of 170 steps between that time period, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. And regarding those 170 steps, isn't it true that this data from Apple Health signifies that hundred and seventy steps took place at some point during that ten minute approximate time period?

MR. YANNETTI: So is it your understanding that those 170 steps all took place at 12:11?

MR. YANNETTI: Oh, I see your objection. Okay. So --

MR. YANNETTI: Yeah, let's assume they were steps for the purpose of this discussion here.

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. Because -- and they could have been steps, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. So let's assume --

MR. YANNETTI: Let's assume that for now.

MR. YANNETTI: Assuming there are 170 steps taken, that could have meant that John O'Keefe took 170 steps beginning at 12:11 within that time period, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Right. Yeah, so in other words, he couldn't started walking at 12:11, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. But he also could have taken that 170 steps closer in time to 12:21, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: I'm not asking about where he was --

MR. YANNETTI: -- I'm just -- I'm just asking about with -- what the data shows.

MR. YANNETTI: If it shows 170 steps between 12:11 and 12:20 -- 12:21, and strictly based on the data, you don't know where those 170 steps took place within that ten minutes, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And it's possible it could have been toward the beginning, toward the end, or maybe fairly evenly spaced, right? You just know that there are hundred seventy steps that were taken in that ten-minute time frame, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Right. And again, I'm asking you from the data itself.

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Well, the Apple Health data also showed a total of 80 steps between 12:21 and 12:24?

MR. YANNETTI: As part of your investigation of this case, were you aware that there was a 12:23 text message from Ryan Nagle to Julie Nagle in which Ryan texted his sister Julie he had arrived at 34 Fairview?

MR. YANNETTI: In any case, you would agree with me that 12:23 is between 12:21 and 12:24, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And that is the 12:21 to 12:24 time frame, where the Apple Health data showed that the user of John O'Keefe's phone took 80 steps, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Now John O'Keefe's Apple Health data also showed that he climbed up or down three flights of stairs between 12:21 and 12:24, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: And that's the same period in which the data reflects 80 steps, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. Approximately?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. And regarding going up and down those three floors, Apple does not provide data precise enough to determine when within that range the three floors were transversed, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And you would agree with me that -- and again, assuming that they were stairs as Apple Health data reflects, those stairs could have been ascended or descended toward the beginning, toward the end, or throughout that three minute time period, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Finally, his Apple Health data also showed a total of 36 steps between 12:31:56 and 12:32:16, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. So I would like to direct your attention to your May 9, 2023, report, which is the second report that you wrote that we've already referenced?

MR. YANNETTI: Specifically paragraph 15.

MR. YANNETTI: You wrote that O'Keefe's health data in Cellebrite shows him ascending, descending three flights of stairs at 12:22 and 14 seconds. Did I read that accurately?

MR. YANNETTI: And the native locations in Cellebrite and the cached locations in Axiom both show O'Keefe's phone location by the intersection of Oakdale Road and Pine Cone Road, which is in front of 36 Oakdale and which is approximately a little over a half mile from 34 Fairview. Did I read that section essentially correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. Do you stand by the statement that he ascended and descended three flights of stairs precisely at 12:22 and 14 seconds?

MR. YANNETTI: Isn't it true that what the Apple Health data actually state is that John O'Keefe's phone went up and down three flights of stairs sometime within the time period that began at 12:22:14 and ended at 12:24:37?

MR. YANNETTI: Right. I'm just asking about the data itself. It gives you that time period and tells you three flights of stairs, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. So assuming that those three flights of stairs were ascended or descended closer in time to 12:22:14, which was within that time period, that would still give him time to arrive at 34 Fairview within a couple of minutes later, would it not?

MR. YANNETTI: Yeah. So we have a time period that you've agreed with which is 12:24:14 ending at 12:24:37, right? A little over a couple of minutes? Two minutes and twenty-three seconds.

MR. YANNETTI: All right. So the three flights of stairs again, just according to the data, could have been ascended or descended at the start of that time period, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: I'm not asking about the house. I'm asking about the data.

MR. YANNETTI: No. What I'm -- what I'm --

MR. YANNETTI: I'm strictly asking you just to look at the data.

MR. YANNETTI: And you agree with me, whenever there's a time period in Apple Health terms either steps or stairs, you can't pinpoint just from the data when they occurred within that time period, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: I do.

MR. YANNETTI: I thought --

MR. YANNETTI: Right. We're going to get to that.

MR. YANNETTI: I'm not asking you about that. I'm asking you about the fact that there's a time period and you can't place where within that time period, just based on that data itself.

MR. YANNETTI: Your conclusion was that John O'Keefe could not have been at 34 Fairview Road at 12:22 and 14 seconds because Waze put him on Oakdale Road about a half mile away, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. And that caused you to disregard the Apple Health data or to attribute it not to steps or to stairs, because he was a half mile away between that 12:22 and 12:24 time period, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. So I want you to assume for a moment, Trooper, that John O'Keefe's phone location actually showed him on Oakdale Road three minutes earlier, at 12:19 a.m., okay? If you -- do you have that in mind?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. With that assumption, would you agree with me that the Apple Health data about him taking eighty steps and climbing up or down three floors at 34 Fairview Road would make more sense?

MR. YANNETTI: May we approach, Your Honor?

MR. YANNETTI: So it will be. That's the whole purpose of the hypothetical. I'm going to get into this with the trooper. There are three separate photos, and I can show this to -- it's Mr. Lally. There are three separate clocks on an iPhone 11. One is monotonic tone, the other is baseband time, the other is display date and time. All of them have different times on them. They can vary by seconds. I have an example on John O'Keefe's phone right here where they vary by three minutes. This Trooper is not going to know which clock was used.

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. I can move on from that.

MR. YANNETTI: Thank you.

MR. YANNETTI: Sir, are you aware that apps on an iPhone may pull data from three different clocks when they're time stamping location data?

MR. YANNETTI: I'm asking you. Are you aware --

MR. YANNETTI: That's not my question. My question was, are you aware that an app on an iPhone may pull data by choosing from three different clocks when it time stamps location data?

MR. YANNETTI: What are those three separate clocks?

MR. YANNETTI: What about with regard to John O'Keefe's actual iPhone, did you research what clocks were available for apps to pull data from?

MR. YANNETTI: Are you aware that those three clocks can vary in time?

MR. YANNETTI: Sometimes for a matter of seconds.

MR. YANNETTI: In other words, the three clocks could be seconds apart, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: All right. And you would agree with me that sometimes the clocks could be off by three minutes, correct?

MR. YANNETTI: May I approach?

MR. YANNETTI: Okay. Trooper, I'm going to place this before you and ask you to review it, directing your attention specifically to what is marked "Process 3434."

MR. YANNETTI: Do you see the process 3434 highlighted in blue on what I've placed before you?