Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveKarina Kolokithas - Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross
493 linesJUDGE CANNONE: Your next witness, Mr. Lally?
MR. LALLY: Yes, Your Honor. The Commonwealth call Miss Karina Kolokithas to the stand.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
COURT OFFICER: Raise your right hand. Do you swear to give the court and jury the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay, whenever you're ready, Mr. Lally.
MR. LALLY: Thank you. Good afternoon.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Good afternoon.
MR. LALLY: Could you please state your name and spell your last name for the jury?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's Karina Kolokithas — K-L-O-K-I-T-H-A-S.
MR. LALLY: And where is it that you live, ma'am?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I live in Canton.
MR. LALLY: And how long have you lived in —
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We've lived in Canton for — um, about 13 years — sorry — 21 years.
MR. LALLY: And when you say "we," who if anyone do you live with in Canton?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I live with my husband and my two daughters.
MR. LALLY: And what's your husband's name?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: His name is Nicholas.
MR. LALLY: And how many daughters do you have?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I have — two.
MR. LALLY: And about how old are they?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: 18 and 16.
MR. LALLY: And do you work, ma'am?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do work.
MR. LALLY: And what do you do?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I'm a pharmacist.
MR. LALLY: And your husband works as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He does.
MR. LALLY: What does he do?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He's an attorney.
MR. LALLY: Now, if I could turn your attention to January 28th and January 29th of 2022.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do.
MR. LALLY: And you recall what days of the week those were?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was a Friday and a Saturday.
MR. LALLY: And specific to the Friday, did you work that day?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did work that day.
MR. LALLY: And after you left work, where did you go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I went to the Canton Junction.
MR. LALLY: And why did you go there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We got a text saying some parents from the varsity team were going to be meeting up there, so I thought it would — — be a good idea to stop by and grab something to eat before the game.
MR. LALLY: And when you say "varsity team," which sport was that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's basketball.
MR. LALLY: Was that your older daughter or younger daughter that was on that team?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: My older daughter played on that team.
MR. LALLY: And so at some point there was a game for the varsity girls' basketball team?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That's correct.
MR. LALLY: And where was that game that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: At Canton High.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall who they played that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They played Foxboro.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall when the game was?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: You mean time?
MR. LALLY: Yes.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: 6:30.
MR. LALLY: And so you mentioned that you went to the Canton Junction — so about what time did you get to the Canton —
MS. KOLOKITHAS: — Junction?
MR. LALLY: — Junction.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I got there around 6. I'm not sure.
MR. LALLY: And following the Canton Junction, where did you go from there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I went to Canton High to watch my daughter play.
MR. LALLY: And within the stands at a Canton High varsity basketball game, were there certain people that you would typically sort of sit with when you watched the game?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Just sit with whoever we knew. Usually it was the parents of the girls that played on the varsity team.
MR. LALLY: And who were some of those parents?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Some of them were the McCabes, the Fitzgeralds, people like that.
MR. LALLY: And the McCabes — what are their names?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Jennifer and Matt McCabe.
MR. LALLY: And how long had you and your family known the McCabes?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I think we've known them for about nine years or so.
MR. LALLY: And did they have a — excuse me — a daughter on the team as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They did.
MR. LALLY: And so you arrived to the game — as far as your husband was concerned, did you observe him there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He was there already.
MR. LALLY: And where did you go to sit?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I went in — I don't exactly remember where — in the vicinity of my husband and those parents.
MR. LALLY: And following that game, where did you go from there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: After the game, we went — usually at the end of the game you'd go down, talk to the players, congratulate them — and then I told everybody I was going home.
MR. LALLY: And did you in fact go home?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did go home.
MR. LALLY: And after you arrived home, what — — if anything happened?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I started getting text messages from my husband, and he said that some of the parents were going to go to grab something to eat, and I should go.
MR. LALLY: And what if any hesitation did you have about that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I was tired, I worked all day — pretty much I was done. I had already almost started changing out of my clothes and I said I wasn't going to go.
MR. LALLY: And eventually did you decide to go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: My kids told me to go. They actually said to me, "You never go out, you don't do anything, dad's by himself, you should go and just keep him company while he eats dinner." So that's what I did.
MR. LALLY: And so based on that you decided to go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did — — reluctantly. Sorry, reluctantly I went. Yes.
MR. LALLY: And where is it that you went?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So that's when I went to C.F. — I'm sorry, I went to the Waterfall. Sorry, a little nervous.
MR. LALLY: And is the Waterfall somewhere you had been before?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I had been to the Waterfall before.
MR. LALLY: And where is that located, in the town of Canton?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's on Washington Street in Canton.
MR. LALLY: And so obviously your husband was already there. You took separate cars, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And about what time is it that you got to the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I got to the Waterfall around 9:30 at night.
MR. LALLY: And where did you park your car in relation to the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I actually found parking right on Washington Street, and I was across the street from the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: And when you arrived and when you came in, who if anyone did you recognize when you first came into the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I walked into the Waterfall and there — pretty much I didn't know anybody except for Matt, Jennifer, and my husband.
MR. LALLY: And if you could describe for the jury — when you walk in the door, the people that you knew, as far as your husband and the McCabes — where were they in relation to you as you walked in the door?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So you walk in the door, there was a band in the front playing — — and then there were high-top tables, and they were at the back of the high-top tables. And if I was standing at the doorway of the Waterfall — the entrance, walking in — and facing those high-top tables —
MR. LALLY: Which side were your husband and the McCabes on from that point?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: On the right, I believe. The band was playing — if you walked in the door, the band was in like the top part, like on the left, and they were on the right.
MR. LALLY: And the band that was playing that night — fair to say — was fairly loud in there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was extremely loud in there, yes.
MR. LALLY: And as far as — you're at a bar, people are —
JUDGE CANNONE: Your next witness Mr. Lally?
MR. LALLY: Yes, Your Honor. The Commonwealther call Mrs. Karina Kolokithas to the stand.
MR. LALLY: Thank you. Good afternoon.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Good afternoon.
MR. LALLY: Could you please state your name and spell your last name for the jury?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's Karina Kolokithas, K-O-L-O-K-I-T-H-A-S.
MR. LALLY: And where is it that you live, ma'am?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I live in Canton.
MR. LALLY: And how long have you lived there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We've lived in Canton for — about 13 years. Sorry — 21 years.
MR. LALLY: And when you say "we," who if anyone do you live with in Canton?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I live with my husband and my two daughters.
MR. LALLY: And what's your husband's name?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: His name is Nicholas.
MR. LALLY: And how many daughters do you have?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I have two.
MR. LALLY: And about how old are they?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: 18 and 16.
MR. LALLY: And do you work, ma'am?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do work.
MR. LALLY: And what do you do?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I'm a pharmacist.
MR. LALLY: And your husband works as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He does.
MR. LALLY: What does he do?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He's an attorney.
MR. LALLY: Now, if I could turn your attention to January 28th and January 29th of 2022 — do you recall those?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall what day of the week those were?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was a Friday and a Saturday.
MR. LALLY: And specific to the Friday — did you work that day?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did work that day.
MR. LALLY: And after you left work, where did you go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I went to the Canton Junction.
MR. LALLY: And why did you go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We got a text saying some parents from the varsity team were going to be meeting up there, so I thought it would be a good idea to go and stop by and grab something to eat before the game.
MR. LALLY: And when you say "varsity team" — which sport was that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's basketball.
MR. LALLY: Was that your older daughter or younger daughter that was on that team?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: My older daughter played on that team.
MR. LALLY: And so at some point there was a game for the varsity girls' basketball team?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That's correct.
MR. LALLY: And where was that game that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: At Canton High.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall who they played that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They played Foxboro.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall when the game was?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: You mean time?
MR. LALLY: Yes.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: 6:30.
MR. LALLY: And so you mentioned that you went to the Canton Junction for about an hour — so about what time did you get to the Canton Junction?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I got there around 6. I'm not sure.
MR. LALLY: And following the Canton Junction, where did you go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Went to Canton High to watch my daughter play.
MR. LALLY: And within the stands at a Canton High varsity basketball game, were there certain people that you would typically sort of sit with when you watch the game?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Just sit with whoever we knew. Usually it was the parents of the girls that played on the varsity team.
MR. LALLY: And who were some of those parents?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Some of them were the McCabes, the Fitzgeralds, people like that.
MR. LALLY: And the McCabes — what are their names?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Jen — Jennifer and Matt McCabe.
MR. LALLY: And how long had you and your family known the McCabes?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I think we've known them for about nine years or so.
MR. LALLY: And did they have a — excuse me — a — on the team as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They did.
MR. LALLY: And so you arrived to the game — as far as your husband was concerned, did you observe him there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He was there already.
MR. LALLY: And where did you go to sit?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I went — I don't exactly remember where I went to sit, in the vicinity of my husband and those parents.
MR. LALLY: And following that game, where did you go from there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So after the game — we went — usually at the end of the game you'd go down, talk to the players, congratulate them — and then I told everybody I was going home.
MR. LALLY: And did you in fact go home?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did go home.
MR. LALLY: And after you arrived home, what if anything happened?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I started getting text messages from my husband, and he said that some of the parents were going to go grab something to eat and I should go.
MR. LALLY: And what if any hesitation did you have about that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I was tired. I worked all day. Pretty much I was done, so I had already almost started changing out of my clothes and I said I wasn't going to go.
MR. LALLY: And eventually, did you decide to go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: My kids told me to go.
MR. LALLY: They did?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They actually — they said to me, "You never go out, you don't do anything. Dad's by himself, you should go and just keep him company while he eats dinner." So that's what I did.
MR. LALLY: And so based on that, you decided to go?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did. Reluctantly — sorry — reluctantly, I went. Yes.
MR. LALLY: And where is it that you went?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So that's when I went to C.F. — um, I'm sorry, I went to the Waterfall. Sorry, a little nervous.
MR. LALLY: And is the Waterfall somewhere you had been before?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I had been to the Waterfall before.
MR. LALLY: And where is that located?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's on Washington Street in Canton.
MR. LALLY: And so obviously your husband was already there — you took separate cars, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And about what time is it that you got to the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I got to the Waterfall around 9:30 at night.
MR. LALLY: And where did you park your car in relation to the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I actually found parking right on Washington Street, and I was across the street from the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: And when you arrived and when you came in — who, if anyone, did you recognize sort of when you first came into the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I walked into the Waterfall and there — pretty much I didn't know anybody except for Matt McCabe, Jennifer McCabe, and my husband.
MR. LALLY: And if you could describe for the jury sort of when you walk in the door — the people that you knew, as far as your husband and the McCabes — where were they in relation to you walking in the door? Where are they?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So you walk in the door, there was a band in the front playing, and then there were high top tables, and they were at the back of the high top tables. And if I was standing sort of at the doorway of the Waterfall, the entrance, waiting in —
MR. LALLY: And facing those high top tables — which side were your husband and the McCabes on from that point?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: On the right. I believe the band was playing on the — if you walked in the door, the band was in like the top part of the — like on the left, and they were on the right.
MR. LALLY: And the band that was playing that night — fair to say, was it fairly loud in there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was extremely loud in there. Yes.
MR. LALLY: And as far as — you're at a bar, people are — drinking, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, did you have to drink that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I drank water that night.
MR. LALLY: And why was that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I typically don't drink a lot. I suffer from migraines, so one alcoholic beverage sometimes can set me off for days, so I chose water.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as that high-top table that you went to with your husband and the McCabes, were there other people at that table?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: There were other people there.
MR. LALLY: Did you know or recognize those other people?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So it was pretty much all of Jennifer McCabe's family. I did not know them, maybe had seen them around town and stuff like that, but I didn't know anybody other than my husband and Matt and Jen.
MR. LALLY: So fair to say that you sort of gravitated or stayed towards that end of the table?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct. I talked to them for a bit, and then I think Jen started introducing me to some people, and I met some of her family.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as the overall demeanor within the bar that night and within the group that you were at the high-top table with, how would you describe that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Everybody was happy, having a good time, no arguments amongst anybody.
MR. LALLY: And any time that you — throughout the entire time you were there, the whole time?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: The whole time I was there, there were no issues at all.
MR. LALLY: Now, at some point later on in the evening, who, if anyone else that you recognized or knew, came into the bar?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I was actually about to leave, and that's when Karen and John came in.
MR. LALLY: And just to be clear, when you say Karen, you mean Karen Read, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And just to be clear about who we're talking about, do you see Karen Read in court today?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do.
MR. LALLY: And could you just identify as to where she's seated?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She's sitting right there.
MR. LALLY: Let the record reflect the identification. Okay, now — John O'Keefe — how did you know him?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: John — his niece and my younger daughter were friends — are friends, they are friends.
MR. LALLY: They are friends?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They are friends.
MR. LALLY: And about how long had you known John?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We've probably known him for eight years or so.
MR. LALLY: And if you recall, when was it that you had met the defendant, Miss Read?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I met Miss Read — I'm not sure exactly — I think the first time I met her was at Jen McCabe's house.
MR. LALLY: And if you know, about when was that in reference to the date of January 28th, 2022?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I met her sometime in 2020 — sometime in 2020, at Jen McCabe's, that is correct.
MR. LALLY: And how would you describe the nature of your relationship — did you know better Mr. O'Keefe or Miss Read?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I knew Mr. O'Keefe better. We saw him all the time — my daughter would have playdates with his niece, my husband coached a basketball team that his niece played on, so he was a great guy, we saw him all the time.
MR. LALLY: And prior to this date of January 28th, had you ever been in any kind of social setting out with the defendant, Miss Read, before?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I had not, no.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall approximately what time it was that they came in?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe it was around 11 o'clock.
MR. LALLY: And at some point, did Mr. O'Keefe and Miss Read make their way over to where you were seated at the high top?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They did. So they walked in and John did his rounds, you know, said hi to everybody, came and gave me a hug, and they headed towards us, yes.
MR. LALLY: And when they came over to you, what, if anything, happened?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: John was really happy. He started talking about Kaylee and how she had just gotten into Bishop Feehan, and he was just very excited — you could tell he was super excited about that.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as Mr. O'Keefe was concerned, what, if anything, do you recall about what he was wearing that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe he was wearing a baseball hat, jeans, sneakers, some kind of top.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, do you recall about sort of a jacket or anything like that with him, at any time that you saw him that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I don't remember a jacket. I remember some kind of light shirt or something, like a light hoodie kind of — I don't remember a jacket.
MR. LALLY: As far as his clothing was concerned, what, if anything, do you recall about the condition of it? Were there any sort of tears or anything disheveled?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He looked fine. Nothing about his clothing stood out to me.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as what you observed regarding interactions between the defendant and Mr. O'Keefe that night, anything out of the ordinary that you observed while you were at the bar?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: The defendant?
MR. LALLY: Say that again — sure. As far as their interactions between Mr. O'Keefe and the defendant, anything out of the ordinary that you observed between the two of them that evening?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: No, I did not see anything.
MR. LALLY: And extending that to the entire group at the high-top table that you were with, anything that you observed out of the realm of the demeanor that you've already described, at any point in time?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: No, everybody was having a great time.
MR. LALLY: Now, with regard to where you were positioned at the high-top table in regard to Mr. O'Keefe, was he closer to your end, or where was he located?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I'm not sure. I don't know where he ended up going. I know that Karen stayed with me, and I'm not sure where John went, but I know he was talking to the guys, probably.
MR. LALLY: So Mr. O'Keefe was moving around a bit, talking to different people?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And Miss Read was down towards where you were, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And who, if anyone else, was down your end of the table — who were you talking to when Miss Read came up?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was Jen McCabe.
MR. LALLY: So when Miss Read comes and joins, it's essentially Miss Read — the defendant — yourself, and Miss McCabe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And when Miss Read first comes up, what, if any, conversation did she have with either yourself or Miss McCabe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She started talking to Jen first, and then they had a conversation, and then we started talking.
MR. LALLY: That first initial conversation between the defendant and Miss McCabe — did you hear any of that conversation?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did not. It was loud. I don't know what they were talking about.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as — obviously you're at a bar and people are drinking — what, if anything, did you observe Mr. O'Keefe drinking?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe he was drinking beer.
MR. LALLY: And as far as Miss Read was concerned, what, if anything, did you observe her drinking?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She was drinking something out of a clear glass, perhaps — so a clear glass with a clear liquid in it, correct.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as through any conversation that you had with either the defendant or Mr. O'Keefe, did you have any understanding of where they came from prior to coming into the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So they had come from across the street.
MR. LALLY: And what is across the street from the bar?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I think it was C.F. McCarthy's.
MR. LALLY: And so, at some point during the course of the evening, you had a conversation with Miss Read, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We talked for quite a while.
MR. LALLY: And during that time that you were talking for quite a while, was that strictly the two of you, or was Miss McCabe involved in those conversations as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Miss McCabe was involved in those conversations. So it was just the three of us.
MR. LALLY: The three of you are talking. And with respect to the defendant's relationship with Mr. O'Keefe, what, if anything, did she say about that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So she started by saying how much she admired him, how much he did for the children, and just how she looked up to him for that. She started with that.
MR. LALLY: Well, she started talking about your kids first?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: My kids first, and then she started talking about John.
MR. LALLY: So she spoke about your kids?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: About my daughter, yeah.
MR. LALLY: A little bit in a glowing fashion, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She did. She always had a way of — I don't know, she seemed to love my younger daughter, and she said that she really liked her — my daughter's relationship with John's niece. So she first started with that conversation, and then she went on talking about John.
MR. LALLY: And then after she talked a little bit about that, what, if anything, else did she talk about?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So she started talking about how much he sacrifices, how he unconditionally puts all his time and effort into the kids, how she admired him for that, and how she also wished that some of the family members would step up and help out a little bit more, because he took all the burden on himself.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, else did she say about that in relation to their relationship?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Just that she wished they had a little bit more time to, you know, go out, go on dates, go on vacation, but she did mention that they had planned a trip or something like that that she was excited about.
MR. LALLY: Now, about what time would you say it was that you left the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I think everything started wrapping up around midnight.
MR. LALLY: And prior to that, what, if any, discussion did you hear or were you a part of as far as anybody talking about where to go next?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I think everybody was having a really good time, so there was conversation about where people could go, and there was talk about maybe going across the street to the pizza place.
MR. LALLY: And what pizza place is across the street?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: There's a pizza place called D&E Pizza, and the owner happened to be there that night, so I think someone brought it up, or there was some conversation amongst the group like, "Hey, let's go there," and he said no.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, did you hear the defendant, Miss Read, say in reference to going?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She just seemed willing to go.
MR. LALLY: Is that something that she mentioned once or more than once?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe she mentioned it more than once, but I don't — — remember like at this moment. But would your — my memory as to that —
MR. LALLY: Could you rephrase that? Memory as to that particular point?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe it was more than once. Is that your question?
MR. LALLY: That's my question, yes. Now other than that, what if any other discussion was there as far as where people were wanting to go or intending to go after the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So after that was kind of, you know, put to rest, I think there was discussion about — well, Jen probably brought — I think Jen McCabe brought up, "Let's go to my sister's house." And is that somewhere that you or your husband, to your knowledge, had ever been to before? We had never been to her house before, no.
MR. LALLY: And was that something that was sort of a private invitation or was that sort of open to the group at the table?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I think it was said out loud, like, "Hey, anybody wants to go, we can go to my sister's on Fairview." I wasn't specifically invited myself. I just think it was put out there.
MR. LALLY: And did either yourself or your husband take anyone up on an invitation? Did you go to Fairview after the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We did not go. I actually said to him, "There's no way we're going anywhere — we're going home."
MR. LALLY: And just to be clear, by him, you mean your husband?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: My husband, yeah.
MR. LALLY: And around the time of midnight or so, when you were leaving, who if anyone did you sort of walk out with initially?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So I believe — let me think — it was again, it was always Jen, myself, and Karen. So we brought up, and Karen went over to John, something like that — they — he like put his arm around her. I don't know if they had a conversation, they talked, it seemed like they were quite lovey-dovey at that point. And then that's when Jennifer McCabe went up to Karen and said, "You're coming with me," like, and she grabbed her — she put her arm around her and she said in front of me, she's like, "You're coming with me, you're coming with me." And just to be clear, like sort of
MR. LALLY: How she said that — was that in sort of a forceful way or—?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: No, like joking around, like "Hey, you know, you come with me, we're gonna, you know." And Karen said, "Where are we going?" And Jen said, "It doesn't matter, it'll be a surprise." Something like that.
MR. LALLY: And did the three of you sort of walk towards the door to the parking lot together?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And where was your husband at this point?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He was behind — he was with McCabe, they were helping the band clean up and get their stuff together. And it was the three of us in the front, meaning the women.
MR. LALLY: And at the initial time when you're walking out, you and Miss — and the defendant — where is Mr. O'Keefe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: A little bit behind us, I'm not sure — not directly with your group, but not with us, no.
MR. LALLY: Now at some point you get outside of the Waterfall, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That's correct.
MR. LALLY: And at some point when you're outside of the Waterfall, do you see Mr. O'Keefe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: At that point I did. All of a sudden it was weird — I see Karen with John, and I was like, "Oh, that's weird, I thought she was going with Jen." And that's just what made me notice it — it was the whole thing of Jen wanting Karen to go with her, and then all of a sudden I see Karen with John. I just thought, you know, I was just like, "Oh." So that made me notice it.
MR. LALLY: And so you proceed to your car, I'm presuming, on Washington Street, correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And if you recall, which direction was your car facing — like down towards the Waterfall or away from the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It was away from the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: And who if anyone else did you observe walking in the direction of Washington Street at the same time as yourself?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That's when I saw Karen and John walking, and they were walking in that direction as well.
MR. LALLY: Did you see them approach or get near to some sort of vehicle?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It looked like they were walking towards a black SUV of some sort.
MR. LALLY: And had you seen either the defendant or Mr. O'Keefe in relation to a dark or black SUV prior to that date?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe I had, yes.
MR. LALLY: Whose car did you believe it was?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I thought it was Karen's car.
MR. LALLY: And which side of that vehicle did you observe Karen walking to?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: She was walking to the driver's side. But again, I was more concerned about crossing Washington Street, and there was a little bit of snow at that point, so I didn't see — like I saw them walking in that direction, her going to the driver's side and John going to the other side, but I didn't see anything after that.
MR. LALLY: And were they on the same side of the street as you were?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They were facing the opposite direction, so — they were — you were
MR. LALLY: Facing away from the Waterfall, they were facing towards the Waterfall, is that right?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They were just — like we were in different directions. So I was — I tried to explain — but they were facing — I was facing up and they were facing back.
MR. LALLY: And different sides of the street, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And then you're in your car and you left, is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: And around that time that you left — I think you alluded to it — but when you got to your car, what was the weather like?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It had just started snowing. You could see the street still, so you could still sort of see the blacktop through whatever snow was on the ground. That is correct.
MR. LALLY: With the court's permission, I'd just like to publish what's been marked as Exhibit 53, just a couple of portions on the screen. This okay? And Miss Gilman, if I could — I'd ask first for the second video from Channel 3. And again, if I could ask for approximately 10:59. And if you could — so, Miss K, do you recognize what's up on the screen?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And what do you recognize it to be?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That's the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: And is this a video that you've seen on a prior occasion?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, before you, ma'am, there should be a laser pointer. If there's any need for either myself or another attorney, all I would ask you to do is just sort of press that button on it and direct it at the screen.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Okay. Okay, yep.
MR. LALLY: So from this video, first of all, as far as people in the video, do you recognize anybody?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's really hard to see, but — do you want me to point?
MR. LALLY: If you recognize anyone, I would ask you to draw the jury's attention to that person and explain who that—
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Oh, sorry — I believe that is my husband. Maybe — I'm not sure.
MR. LALLY: So if you don't know, or if you can't tell, you—
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I'm not sure. It's hard to tell.
MR. LALLY: Now, Miss K, just from up on this video, you recognize sort of the table that you were at or around on the evening of January 28 — the high top?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yeah.
MR. LALLY: And if you could just direct the jury's attention to generally speaking which side of the table where you spent your time talking to Miss McCabe.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: In the — so like if we're pointing to here, I'd be on that side, like the left side of the table, if you want to call it the left side.
MR. LALLY: And the area where the band was, if you could?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: The band is here, like — yeah, on the front.
MR. LALLY: And the front door area, sort of where is that located?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's like right there.
MR. LALLY: And Miss Gilman, if you could just run this video from 10:59 to 11 p.m. — thank you. Mr. Woll, if you could take that down. With court permission, I would ask for — from the same Channel 3, the sixth video, and the scan — if I could direct you to 12:09, 50 seconds. Again, is this what you recognize up on the screen as just later on in the evening at the Waterfall? Is that correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct, yes.
MR. LALLY: And is this towards the end of the evening?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, it is.
MR. LALLY: And fair to say that the lights have been turned up so it's a little easier?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: So now I can recognize a few more people.
MR. LALLY: And so from what you can see up on the screen now, if you could using that laser pointer, just direct the jury's attention to anybody that you recognize.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Okay, so that's me right there, and then my husband is right there — Nicholas — and I don't know if that's Matt, Jen — I don't — and I can't tell because of the timestamp up there, the date and time. Yeah, I can't see who that is.
MR. LALLY: Miss Gilman, if you could play it from this point—
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Oh, I see John too, sorry. I see John — John's right there.
MR. LALLY: Miss Gilman, if you could play it from this point till 12:11 and 4 seconds, just if you can pause it right there. Now, as far as — this is recorded at 12:10 and 38 — you see sort of three individuals going towards the front entrance?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: You just have to say yes.
MR. LALLY: And with that laser pointer, if you could just identify for the jury who if anyone you recognize from that group.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Okay, so that's Jen, and that's me, and that's Karen.
MR. LALLY: So you're walking sort of towards the exit at the same time, right?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Miss Gilman, if you could — pause. Now there's another individual sort of making their way to the doorway. Do you recognize that person?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, that's John. That's John O'Keefe.
MR. LALLY: John O'Keefe, yes, exiting from the Waterfall?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Miss Gilman, if you could just play the last two seconds. Now, Miss Gilman, if I could ask you from the same exhibits but from Channel 1, and the third video down on Channel 1, if I could ask you to fast forward to about 12:11. Essentially what I'm going to ask — Miss Gilman, if you could play this from 12:11 and zero to 12:11 and 25 seconds. But — I'm sorry — first if I could actually just pause it for one second. And I know it's an awful time to pause it, but before the — [unintelligible] — in front of the camera, do you recognize what's depicted up there?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Can you repeat the question?
MR. LALLY: What's in this video, generally, without what's blocking the camera right now — do you recognize what it is?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's the exit — that's the exit to the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: Correct. Thank you — if you could pause right There's an individual sort of down towards the bottom of the frame — do you recognize who that is?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: It's Karen and John.
MR. LALLY: So that would be the point in time where you say they sort of link up at the front door and then walk towards Washington Street?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: That's correct.
MR. LALLY: And if you could, just with reference to the screen that we're looking at here in Exhibit 53, where is Washington Street? You had parking where you observed Mr. O'Keefe and Ms. Read walking.
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Okay, trying to think of the building — that's the back parking lot where they're like — where you see the cars, and you have to take a left. So directly in front of where Mr. O'Keefe and Ms. Read are standing is the back parking lot, and then to the left is Washington Street. Yeah, I think you have to walk that way and then you'll hit Washington Street.
MR. LALLY: Miss Gilman, if you could just play through to 25 seconds — you could pause that. You see an individual in the parking lot area?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I do.
MR. LALLY: And do you recognize who that person is?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I believe it's Jennifer.
MR. LALLY: By that you mean —
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I'm sorry. Ms. McCabe. Ms. McCabe.
MR. LALLY: And Miss Gilman, if you go back the last two seconds — thank you. Miss Gilman, you can take that down, please.
MR. LALLY: I have no further questions for this witness.
JUDGE CANNONE: Cross-examination.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
MR. JACKSON: You and I have never met?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: We have not.
MR. JACKSON: We've never had a conversation?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Never.
MR. JACKSON: We've certainly never interviewed you?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Never.
MR. JACKSON: So this is our first time speaking?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I want to direct your attention to part of your testimony on direct examination — your questioning by Mr. Lally. You indicated that before Ms. Read and Mr. O'Keefe left the bar, Ms. Read had been making some statements about Mr. O'Keefe. Okay?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Is that right?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated that she said that she admired him?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That she looked up to Mr. O'Keefe?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: She always had a way of complimenting him?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That he took so much responsibility on as it pertained to the children?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And that she wished that they had more time together?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: They planned a trip together?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And she was excited about that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And she indicated that John was excited about that as well?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Just before leaving the bar, you indicated that Jennifer McCabe said to Ms. Read, "You're coming with me." Correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: She didn't say "You and John come with me"?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: No.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. That was directed just to Ms. Read?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You're familiar with the town of Canton generally?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You know that the distance between the Waterfall Bar and 34 Fairview Road would be maybe five, six, seven minutes' drive?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Probably.
MR. JACKSON: So just after these statements were made, they went to 34 Fairview Road — five minutes later, seven minutes later — we'd be sitting in front of 34 Fairview. Correct?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. That's all I have.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay, all right. ...anything?
MR. LALLY: Just very briefly. Ms. Kolokithas, with reference to your relationship with John O'Keefe — as far as what you were relaying, that was what the defendant had said to you at the bar that night?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And fair to say you didn't have any conversation with Mr. O'Keefe in reference to the relationship or trips or anything like that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Not that night, no.
MR. LALLY: And as far as your relationship with Mr. O'Keefe — do you have any sort of discussions at any point in time about his relationship with Ms. Read or anything going on in that relationship?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: He didn't tell me personal things, no.
MR. LALLY: Didn't have that type of relationship, correct?
MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And this time out on January 28th — that was the first time that you had been out socially with the defendant, Ms. Read?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And so as far as what went on behind sort of closed doors at their home or anything like that, you didn't know anything about that?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: I did not. No.
MR. LALLY: I have nothing further.
MR. JACKSON: I have one question, Your Honor, if I may. But what you did observe between the two of them that night — to use your words — they were lovey-dovey?
MS. KOLOKITHAS: They were.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, Ms. Kolokithas, thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: It makes sense to let you go a little early, and we'll start fresh tomorrow. Okay. So please do not discuss this case with anyone. Don't do any independent research or investigation into the case. If you happen to see or hear or read anything about the case, please disregard it and let us know.
JUDGE CANNONE: So I see everyone is closing your notebooks and leaving them on the chairs. Gather your belongings. Follow me.
JUDGE CANNONE: Please be seated.
JUDGE CANNONE: Are there any evidentiary issues I need to be concerned about tomorrow with this next witness?
MR. YANNETTI: Your Honor, we have — I believe provided every exhibit that we intend to introduce through this witness. They are all photographs and or screenshots that we would have lined up. I'm happy to show them to Mr. Lally in terms of the specific ones that we would be using before we leave today.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. So just so it's clear — anything you intend to introduce, you have to show them in advance.
MR. YANNETTI: I know we've provided them, as I said originally. And I certainly will show them before I show them to the witness. What I'm offering is to show them now before we break.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes, so I'm telling you — yes, show them to him before we break. Anything that you intend to show — to introduce — tomorrow.
MR. YANNETTI: Sure.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Thank you. All right, we'll see you tomorrow.
COURT OFFICER: All rise for the court.