Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveNicholas Kolokithas - Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross
443 linesJUDGE CANNONE: Your next witness, Mr. Lally?
MR. LALLY: Commonwealth calls Mr. Nicholas Kolokithas to the stand.
COURT CLERK: Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
JUDGE CANNONE: Whenever you're ready, Mr. Lally.
MR. LALLY: Good afternoon, sir.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Good afternoon.
MR. LALLY: Could you please state your name and spell your last name for the jury?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It's Nicholas Kolokithas. K-o-l-o-k-i-t-h-a-s.
MR. LALLY: And where do you live, sir?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Canton.
MR. LALLY: And how long have you lived there?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: 21 years.
MR. LALLY: And who, if anyone, do you live with?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: My wife and two children.
MR. LALLY: What is your wife's name?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Karina.
MR. LALLY: And your two children — how old are they?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: 18 and 16.
MR. LALLY: Are they both girls?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And do you work, sir?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. LALLY: What do you do?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I'm an attorney.
MR. LALLY: And how long have you been practicing as an attorney?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: 27 years.
MR. LALLY: And does your wife work?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, she does.
MR. LALLY: And what does she do?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: She's a pharmacist.
MR. LALLY: Now, if I could turn your attention to the evening of January 28th, 2022 — you recall that date?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. LALLY: Were you working that day?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I was.
MR. LALLY: Were you working in the office or remotely?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: We were hybrid. I was working remote that day.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as that evening was concerned, what, if anything, were the plans, and sort of what did you do that evening?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Sure. My older daughter was on the Canton High basketball team, so we were planning to go — I should say I was planning to go to the basketball game, and I did go to the basketball game.
MR. LALLY: Yes, and where was the basketball game?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Canton High School.
MR. LALLY: And your daughter at that point — which team did she play on?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: She was coming off an injury and she was playing for both the JV and the varsity team, so she was sort of swinging between JV and varsity.
MR. LALLY: Correct. And so what time were each of the games?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: God, I think the JV was around five or so, and the varsity 6:30, 6:45.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall who they were playing?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Foxboro High.
MR. LALLY: And when you arrived to the game, as far as where — where is it that you typically sit when you go to a basketball game?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Canton. There was a group of five parents or so, including us. We generally sat together most of the games.
MR. LALLY: And who, if anyone else, was among those parents that you sat with specifically? Yes, names?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: The McCabes, the Fitzgeralds, the Galleranis, and Tom Bey.
MR. LALLY: And these are people you know as sort of parents of other children that are on the team?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And as far as — is that who you sat with on this occasion, if you recall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I believe so.
MR. LALLY: And your wife — did she come to one or both games?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: She came to the second game, the varsity game.
MR. LALLY: And about what time did that game get over?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: The varsity game — it went into overtime, was a back-and-forth game, ran later than usual. I don't remember the exact time. We lost to Foxboro by one.
MR. LALLY: Now, following that — following the basketball game, where did you go from there?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: As usual we waited for our players — our daughters — to come out. And the same group of parents were deciding if we should continue, go out somewhere, get something to eat. I was hungry. Anybody who knows me doesn't get between me and my food, so I was very hungry, so wanted to get something to eat.
MR. LALLY: And where did you decide to go?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Went to the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: Is that somewhere that you had been before?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, with regard to the Waterfall, as far as the other parents — what, if any, other parents from the ones that you described, as far as the ones you sit with at the game, if anyone else —
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Jennifer McCabe.
MR. LALLY: And how was that sort of communicated to you — as far as in person, via text, the phone, or how did you come to the Waterfall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It was via text.
MR. LALLY: And so you get a text from who specifically directing you to sort of go to the Waterfall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: So it was a group text amongst the five sets of families, and different ideas were bantered about in the group text, and I decided to go to the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: And when you get to the Waterfall, being familiar with the establishment, where is it that you parked in reference to the Waterfall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I parked behind on Washington Street. There's a small little parking lot. Waterfall shares a parking lot with other establishments, and I believe a condo, so I parked in the back.
MR. LALLY: And about what time did you get there?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I got there right around 9-ish, a little bit before 9:00.
MR. LALLY: And if anyone else from that group of parents, beside yourself and the McCabes, went to the Waterfall that night?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: So I walked in, it was a large table, probably about 8 to 10 feet long. In addition to Jen and McCabe, there was Jen's sister Nicole Albert, her husband Brian Albert, Brian's brother Chris Albert and his wife Julie, and there were others that I was just introduced to for the first time, so I don't recall their names. But there were others at the table as well.
MR. LALLY: And so, as far as the other sort of basketball parents — were any of them there as well, beyond the McCabes?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Beyond the McCabes, no.
MR. LALLY: And as far as the other people who weren't — didn't have the last name McCabe — how did you know any of those people, or did you know any of those people at the Waterfall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes. I had met Nicole, Brian, Chris, and Julie prior, I think at other basketball games, other events. So I knew them through the McCabes, through Jen. And the McCabes had a daughter on the basketball team as well.
MR. LALLY: They had one of their daughters on the team at the time?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And when it came to the McCabes, Mr. and Mrs. — what are their names?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Jennifer and Matt McCabe.
MR. LALLY: How long have you known Jennifer and Matt?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: About nine or ten years ago we met.
MR. LALLY: And at some point during the course of the evening, did your wife join you at the Waterfall as well?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: She did.
MR. LALLY: Fair to say you took separate cars, is that correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: We did, yes.
MR. LALLY: And about how long after you arrived did your wife arrive?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I want to say it was about a half hour or so, so around 9:30 she arrived.
MR. LALLY: Now, with reference to this table that you were referencing — about 8 to 10 feet long, is that correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And was this a high top, low top? What kind of table was that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It was a high top table towards the bar end of the Waterfall. I don't know if it was the last table or second to last table right before you hit the bar.
MR. LALLY: And as far as the people that you described — the people that you knew or didn't know — where were they sort of situated around the table?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: When I first walked in I saw Matt, since he was the person I was most familiar with. Matt and Jen — Matt was standing towards the right side of the table as you're walking in, towards the right side, so I went to the right side of the table.
MR. LALLY: Is that essentially where you stayed for the balance of most of the night?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And your wife, when she arrived, where did she go in reference?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Initially she came to me, said hello. I think she picked at my food. And then she gravitated, I believe, towards the left side of the table where more of the women were located.
MR. LALLY: And at some point following that, was there anyone else that you knew or were aware of that came into the bar?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And about what time was that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Shortly before 11:00, or right around 11:00.
MR. LALLY: And who was that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It was John O'Keefe and Karen Read.
MR. LALLY: And these are people that you were familiar with prior to that date?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And just to be clear, when we're talking about Karen Read — do you see Miss Read in the courtroom today?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I do.
MR. LALLY: And could you describe where she's seated or an article of clothing she's wearing?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: She's seated at a table to my right, second person in from the right.
MR. LALLY: Let the record reflect identification of the defendant by the witness. Thank you. Now, how did you know John O'Keefe?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: John O'Keefe had adopted his niece and nephew. His niece is the same age as my younger daughter, and they were playing basketball together. They've been friends for years, so I got to know John through my daughter.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as Miss Read — when was it that you met her, when was it you became sort of aware?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Sure. I believe it was towards the end of the summer of 2020. I dropped my daughter off at John's — John's place on Meadows. Karen was there. It was the first time I met her, so it was 2020.
MR. LALLY: And with reference to yourself and your wife as a couple, and Mr. O'Keefe and Miss Read — how often would you sort of see them as couples?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Not too often. I would see John on a weekly basis during the basketball season, sometimes multiple times a week during the basketball season. But as couples, maybe a couple of times we had seen them.
MR. LALLY: So fair to say most of your interaction with them would be at sort of sporting events or things for the kids?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as on that evening — obviously you went out, you had something to eat — did you have anything to drink as well?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I did.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall sort of what you were drinking that night?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Captain and Coke.
MR. LALLY: And as far as John O'Keefe — you recall sort of what he was drinking that night?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And what, if anything, do you recall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Beer.
MR. LALLY: Is that sort of typical for Mr. O'Keefe from the occasions you happen to be out on events like that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as Miss Read — what, if anything, did you observe her to be drinking at the Waterfall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: She was holding a cup, a glass with a clear liquid.
MR. LALLY: And what was your understanding of what was in the cup with clear liquid?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I don't know what — was in there, but I don't know if it was water or an alcoholic drink. I don't know for sure.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as the general demeanor and atmosphere within the bar that night, how would you describe that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Generally it was a fun atmosphere. There was a live band, everybody was in a good mood. I think people were singing to some of the music, so it was a fun atmosphere.
MR. LALLY: And specifically, you didn't observe anything as far as arguing or anything between Mr. O'Keefe and Miss Read, is that correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct, I did not.
MR. LALLY: And you didn't observe anything as far as arguing or anything between anyone at the bar — is that correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct, I did not.
MR. LALLY: And as far as Mr. O'Keefe was concerned, you recall what he was wearing when he was in the bar?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes. He had a dark baseball cap, jeans, sneakers, and he had some type of top — a longer sleeve top.
MR. LALLY: At any point in time did you observe him to have a winter coat or a jacket or anything like that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Not that I recall.
MR. LALLY: As far as his clothing was concerned, what if anything did you observe — were there any tears or anything in his clothing?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: No tears, nothing unusual about the clothing.
MR. LALLY: And as far as Mr. O'Keefe himself, what if any injuries did you observe on him at that time when you saw him at the —
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I didn't observe any injuries.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as prior to them coming into the Waterfall, do you have any idea sort of where they were coming from?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I did.
MR. LALLY: And how did you know that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I knew through Matt McCabe. Matt had said that they were at C.F. McCarthy's and they were heading over — we had the live band and they were coming over to our place.
MR. LALLY: As far as the live band was concerned, about how loud was it in the Waterfall during that time?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It was fairly loud.
MR. LALLY: Now, towards the end of the night, what if any discussion did you observe, or were you a part of, as far as anywhere people were going afterward?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Again, we were at this larger, you know, 8, almost 10-foot table, and most of the discussion was happening towards the other side of the table. But there were a couple of places that people were discussing about potentially going.
MR. LALLY: And what were those couple of places people were discussing?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: One was D&E, which was across the street next to C.F. McCarthy's, and the other one was 34 Fairview Road.
MR. LALLY: And as far as D&E — are you familiar with that establishment?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I am.
MR. LALLY: What is it, and where is it in relation to the Waterfall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It's basically a sub shop, pizza shop. It's diagonally across the street from the Waterfall.
MR. LALLY: And what if any relationship did D&E Pizza have to anyone that you observed in the group?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Chris Albert, who was with the group, was one of the owners, if not the owner, of D&E.
MR. LALLY: And as far as going to that place afterward, who if anyone among the group had mentioned that or was talking about it?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I didn't hear specifically one person — it was just generally coming from the group.
MR. LALLY: So did you hear the defendant at any point talking about going there or wanting to?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I heard from others that she had mentioned about wanting to go there.
MR. LALLY: Now you mentioned a couple of different places — what was the other?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: 34 Fairview Road.
MR. LALLY: And was it mentioned specifically as far as that address, or how was it referenced?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I believe it was mentioned — Brian Albert, the homeowner, had invited the group back to his house. I can't remember if it was "come back to my house" or "come back to 34 Fairview," but that was his residence.
MR. LALLY: And so was that sort of an open invitation to the group at the table?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And yourself and your wife — did either of you go to Fairview Road that night?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: We did not.
MR. LALLY: And at some point you left — you recall about what time you left the Waterfall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It was shortly after 12:00, maybe 12:10 or so.
MR. LALLY: And when you left, in reference to the rest of the group?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Matt and I stayed back a little bit. We helped clean up the table with the bottles and glasses. We spoke to the band briefly, told them how well they played. So we were a little bit later — maybe a couple minutes later than the rest of the group.
MR. LALLY: And when you exited, did you know where your wife was?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I did, I knew where she was.
MR. LALLY: Where was she?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: She was parked out front on Washington Street.
MR. LALLY: And so you were parked in the lot and she was parked on Washington Street?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And when you came outside, what if anything did you observe about the weather or what was going on?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It was very cold and it had just started to snow. I don't even think there was a dusting on the ground, or barely a dusting on the ground.
MR. LALLY: And so at that point, could you still see blacktop on the pavement?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: When you got to your car, what if anything did you have to do to get your car ready to go, or clean off the car?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I didn't need a scraper or anything. I just turned on my windshield wipers and it cleaned the snow off.
MR. LALLY: Now, you mentioned that you and Mr. McCabe were sort of the last to leave from the group — do you know what order the rest of the group had left in?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Generally, yes.
MR. LALLY: Generally, what do you recall?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: There was a larger group that left right before us. I believe my wife was part of that group, Jen was in that group, and Karen was in that group.
MR. LALLY: You mentioned that your wife had sort of gravitated towards the other end of the table where some of the other women were — is that correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, that's correct.
MR. LALLY: So who, as far as the women that you're referencing, who was in that group that your wife was conversing with?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I know Karen was part of that group, and Jennifer was part of that group as well.
MR. LALLY: And that'd be Jennifer McCabe, is that correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: That's correct, yes.
MR. LALLY: With the Court's permission, I'd just like to publish a brief portion of exhibit 53, this video. If I could have exhibit 53 on the screen, and specifically if I could have from Channel 3 the second video down, and if you could put that at approximately 10:59 P.M. Once it gets to 10:59 — if you pause — thank you. So, Mr. Kolokithas, what's up on the screen as exhibit 53 — do you recognize that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. LALLY: And what do you recognize?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It's the inside of the Waterfall Bar.
MR. LALLY: And before you on that desk, I believe there should be a laser pointer — yes. So if you could just grab that and sort of click the button on top when I ask you to. So with reference to this video, do you see yourself within this video?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. LALLY: Could you just draw the jury's attention to where you are — in this black and white shirt — and from that specific area, do you recognize anybody else in that general area of the frame?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do. I believe that's Matt McCabe right there to my right, and John O'Keefe to my left — in front of me, to my left.
MR. LALLY: Now, that area of the table where you indicated your wife was with another group of women, further away from you — where would that be?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: The numbering is there so I can't really see, but it was towards this side and further down the table.
MR. LALLY: Is that where people that you were less familiar with were?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Correct, yes.
MR. LALLY: Mr. Kolokithas, thank you. I have no further questions.
JUDGE CANNONE: Cross-examination.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
MR. JACKSON: Good afternoon, Mr. Kolokithas.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Good afternoon.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Kolokithas, you and I have never actually met?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: We have not.
MR. JACKSON: We've never had a conversation?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: We have not.
MR. JACKSON: We've certainly never had an interview about this case?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: We have not.
MR. JACKSON: So this is our first time visiting about this situation?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: When did you say you first met Miss Read?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I believe it was towards the end of the summer of 2020.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And that was at an event at his house?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I don't know if it was John's niece's birthday party or so, but I was dropping my daughter off at John's house.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. That sort of dovetails into my next question — you and your wife and your kids did have some sort of relationship with Mr. O'Keefe, Miss Read, and Mr. O'Keefe's niece and nephew?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: In other words, the kids got along well?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, absolutely.
MR. JACKSON: You wanted to make sure that you could facilitate playdates, get-togethers, things of that nature for the children?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: As a matter of fact, you remember a situation in which Miss Read had arranged a relatively elaborate 13th birthday party for Mr. O'Keefe's niece — a scavenger hunt of sorts?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to see counsel at sidebar for this, please.
MR. JACKSON: With regard to the last question I asked — you recall an event in which Miss Read had organized a relatively elaborate 13th birthday party for Mr. O'Keefe's niece, correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And one of your children was actually invited to that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Did you actually go and accompany your child at the 13th birthday party?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I did not.
MR. JACKSON: Did your wife?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I don't know — she generally keeps a social calendar for the kids, but I don't know if she did.
MR. JACKSON: So it could have been a situation, Mr. Kolokithas, in which you just dropped the child off —
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, correct.
MR. JACKSON: — and the child enjoyed the birthday party, correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, fair enough. But you had no problems or no qualms with Miss Read and Mr. O'Keefe being caretakers over your children?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Absolutely not.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You said that you didn't socialize as couples all that often, but there were times in which you did — yes?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: About how many times would you say?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: A handful of times, maybe.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Five or six, if that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Over the course of how long?
MR. JACKSON: Since 2020 to 2022?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Two years — less than two years.
MR. JACKSON: Focusing your attention more toward the end of that time period that you just mentioned — for 2022 — when you socialized with Miss Read and Mr. O'Keefe, did you ever see any sort of tension between the two of them?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Not at all.
MR. JACKSON: Did they seem like a normal, loving couple?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Absolutely. They seemed like they were affectionate — normally affectionate with one another.
MR. JACKSON: Absolutely. Do you ever have any question about the nature of their relationship — any toxicity in the relationship, or any overt indicators that they weren't getting along?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Not to my knowledge. Not at all.
MR. JACKSON: As a matter of fact, you spent more time with Mr. O'Keefe — yes — than anyone else in the — in the force, of course?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Than my wife — I mean, "force"? That's a good catch. You're going to pay for that later.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Fair enough. I get brownie points for that, right?
MR. JACKSON: Let me see if I can restate it a little bit better. Between Mr. O'Keefe and Miss Read, you spent more time with Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, fair enough.
MR. JACKSON: You knew that Mr. O'Keefe and Miss Read had rekindled a previous relationship from years earlier?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I did.
MR. JACKSON: And you knew that Mr. O'Keefe was excited about that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I want to draw your attention to the late-night hours of January 28th going into the early-morning hours of January 29th. If I could — specifically at the Waterfall — did you get to the Waterfall before Mr. O'Keefe and Miss Read got there?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I did.
PARENTHETICAL: [sidebar]
MR. JACKSON: How long before?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: So I got there around 9:00 and they got there shortly before 11:00, so — two hours.
MR. JACKSON: While at the Waterfall, did you have an opportunity to speak with Miss Read or Mr. O'Keefe just in normal conversation?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I did.
MR. JACKSON: You engaged both of them as a matter of fact, didn't you?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Was there a time in which Miss Read was actually singing John's praises that night?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes — great dad, he was — yep.
MR. LALLY: Objection. Move to strike.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to strike that.
MR. JACKSON: Next question. At any point, did you have an opportunity to hear Mr. O'Keefe talk about Miss Read and the nature of their relationship, or any events surrounding their relationship?
JUDGE CANNONE: Jackson, I'm going to allow that.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I had heard that they were planning vacations in the future.
MR. JACKSON: Were you aware of the time frame of those vacations? In the future — next week, next month, next year?
MR. LALLY: Objection. Your Honor, may we approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Jurors, feel free to stand up and just —
MR. JACKSON: — there was nothing eventful at the bar while you were at the bar with Mr. O'Keefe and Miss Read that comes to mind, in terms of any kind of tension or fight that night?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Tension or fight? Absolutely not.
MR. JACKSON: No argument that was audible to you?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Absolutely not.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't see any body language between the two of them that would suggest an argument, or a fight, or tension?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: In fact, I noticed the opposite.
MR. JACKSON: Describe that.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: They were affectionate toward each other — loving towards each other — to the point where my wife even made a comment: "Why — why are you not like that with me?"
MR. JACKSON: You had something to live up to?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes. That's why I needed the brownie points earlier.
MR. JACKSON: I want to shift gears for a second and pinpoint another time at the bar. Was there a time at the bar where you noticed any individuals with their fists up, engaged in some sort of conduct that looks a little like this?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: No, I didn't observe that.
MR. JACKSON: You don't recall that?
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. KOLOKITHAS: No.
MR. JACKSON: Sparring with one another?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Not that I saw.
MR. JACKSON: Wrestling?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Not that I saw.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I'd like, if I could, Mr. Kolokithas — with the Court's permission — to refer to exhibit 53.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: There are several, Your Honor. So -
JUDGE CANNONE: So if you're going to talk about it, talk about it at sidebar.
MR. JACKSON: I'm not. So this is the clip ending in 5959 — because there are several clips in 53. With the Court's permission, I'd like to display this to the jury at runtime 8:30 — 8 minutes and 30 seconds.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So what exhibit is this?
MR. JACKSON: This is 53, and it's the clip ending in 5959.
MR. JACKSON: May I play this for the jury?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays to 11:08 and pauses]
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. I'm going to play about 10 seconds, Mr. Kolokithas, and then stop it and ask you a couple of questions.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, if we could pause. I just wanted to play a couple of seconds to see if you recognize what's displayed in this video.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: How do you recognize it?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I was there that night.
MR. JACKSON: My question — I guess my question is: do you recognize this as being a surveillance video from the 28th going into the morning of the 29th?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I want to draw your attention to the individuals at the top of the screen. If I could draw your attention to the individuals at the top — can you name the folks that we're seeing and describe what they're wearing for the jurors, so we have an understanding of who we're looking at?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Okay. That's me, in white and black. That's Matt to my right. A little hard to see, but I think that's John right there. And I thought I saw Karen earlier right in this area while you were displaying the video.
MR. JACKSON: And what about the two gentlemen with their backs to us?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I know I met them that evening, but I can't tell from behind like this.
MR. JACKSON: Understood. With the Court's permission, could we just go ahead and play this through? I'd like to run it through to about the runtime of 11:08, but I'll ask that the video be paused momentarily
JUDGE CANNONE: 11:08? So just one more second?
MR. JACKSON: Runtime, sorry — runtime 11:08, so probably about four minutes.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: May I?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes, thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Pause it. Having seen this run forward just a little bit — do you see an individual here with long hair?
JUDGE CANNONE: You're squinting — are you having difficulty?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I am having difficulty. Could you blow it up a bit, or —
MR. JACKSON: I don't think so. Our technology is good, but I'm getting a shake of the head.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: My eyes are not good, I can tell you that.
MR. JACKSON: Let's just go ahead and play it forward, with the Court's permission.
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. JACKSON: Pause. Go. Keep this. Do you recall engaging with the two men in any sort of conversation — the two men with their backs facing to us?
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. But if you can't see it, I don't want you to —
MR. KOLOKITHAS: So this — are you talking right here?
MR. JACKSON: Yes.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: That looks like Karen.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, maybe we play it forward.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Pause it. I ask you to draw your attention to the gentlemen in the foreground right there. Can you describe what they're doing?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: It looks like they're in a stance —
MR. LALLY: Objection. May we approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay, I'm sustaining that objection. But come on up.
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. JACKSON: Okay, we've paused at 11:08. If I could ask a couple of other questions — and I think we can leave the lights down, because I'm going to ask, with the Court's permission, another clip be played. Mr. Kolokithas, you indicated that you don't recall the events that you're seeing. Is that still the case, or has your recollection been refreshed about what you were doing?
MR. JACKSON: May I, Your Honor?
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Another question, and if you're having trouble seeing, just let me know. You see the person in the far right?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: Who's that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Me.
MR. JACKSON: And what do you appear to be looking at, if anything?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I appear to be looking in that direction.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Can we go ahead and play this forward?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I mean, I can see it — I honestly do not recall it.
MR. JACKSON: But do you recall ever being introduced to those two gentlemen?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Who are they?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Brian Albert, Brian Higgins.
MR. JACKSON: And which one is which — left and right?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Left is Albert, right is Higgins.
MR. JACKSON: Go. Play that — pause it, Mr. Kolokithas. Can I draw your attention to the upper right? Do you recognize any person facing the camera in the upper right corner?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: Who's that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: John O'Keefe.
MR. JACKSON: About 30 more seconds.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I honestly don't remember — what appears to be play-fighting. I don't remember that.
MR. JACKSON: If we could move to runtime 16:36, with the Court's permission.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Go ahead — play — pausing. Do you see yourself in the upper right-hand corner?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: And do you see the two people — the two individuals, Brian Albert and Brian Higgins — in the foreground?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: Pause it. Do you see — at this point, I know it's difficult — do you see John O'Keefe anywhere in the frame at this juncture?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I do not see him.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, pause. And now, taking a look at the individual at the top of the screen — do you see that person?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: Who is that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: John O'Keefe.
MR. JACKSON: And what direction is he facing — us, or facing away from us?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: He's facing us. It looks like he's facing us.
MR. JACKSON: So he would be facing the two individuals with their back to us?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And he appears to be standing across the table — across the bar table?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: My wife. Leaning on — it's my wife.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And are you still in the same spot — upper right-hand corner? Yes, I am.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: And where's Mr. O'Keefe? Across — he's now facing the other way.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Away from us. We can take this
MR. KOLOKITHAS: down. With regard to what you just saw — the second incident of what appeared to be two individuals touching each other — did you engage in any sort of rough housing or play fighting that night? I did not.
MR. JACKSON: Did you engage in any grappling or wrestling that night? I did not.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Did you see John O'Keefe engage in any wrestling or grappling or play fighting? I do not recall him doing that.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Or do you recall him doing any sparring? I do not recall him doing that.
MR. JACKSON: Do you recall him ever putting his fists up toward any other person in that bar that night? I do not recall him doing that.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: That's all I have. Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, just a moment. I'm — — sorry. I already have that in — Exhibit 1636. I'm fine, thank you. All right. Mr. Lally, any followup?
MR. LALLY: Just briefly. Mr. Kus, as far as your observations of Mr. O'Keefe and Miss Read in their relationship — you saw what they sort of depicted in public, correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes.
MR. LALLY: So fair to say — you ever have any sort of substantial conversations with either Mr. O'Keefe or Miss Read about their relationship, their personal relationship?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: No, I did not.
MR. LALLY: Anything as far as your personal relationship with your wife — is that something that you would have shared or discussed with Mr. O'Keefe or Miss Read?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I'm not sure. Are you asking me if I knew something about their relationship I would share with my wife, or vice versa?
MR. LALLY: No, what I'm asking is from the other side. Okay? So you didn't discuss, really, Mr. O'Keefe and Miss Read's relationship with them, correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And so what I'm asking now is — you didn't discuss your own relationship with your wife with Mr. O'Keefe or Miss Read, correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: That is correct.
MR. LALLY: Now, with reference to what you were just shown up on the screen — that was so memorable that you testified you don't have a memory of it, correct?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: The which part?
MR. LALLY: The — whatever that was between two individuals play fighting.
MR. KOLOKITHAS: I do not recall that.
MR. LALLY: And as far as yourself within that video — did you observe yourself appear to sort of be laughing while that was going —
MR. KOLOKITHAS: — on? I did. I don't know if I was necessarily looking at them or the other side of the table, but yes, I did observe myself laughing.
MR. LALLY: Nothing further.
MR. JACKSON: Your honor may we approach briefly?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Kolokithas, just one more question. You testified previously at another hearing that Karen Read — quote — was actually singing John's praises about how good of a person he was, a father figure for taking in the kids several years ago, and you know, being there for them, and praising them, and sacrificing his life to raise them — end quote. Do you remember saying that?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: Is that true?
MR. KOLOKITHAS: 100%.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, Mr. Kolokithas, you are all set, sir. Thank you.