Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveMatthew Kelly - Direct/Cross
434 linesJUDGE CANNONE: Was it? All right, you are all set. Firefighter Flematti — or paramedic Flematti — thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: Who is your next witness, Mr. Lally?
MR. LALLY: Yes. We'll call Mr. Matthew Kelly.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. You may approach.
MR. LALLY: Just to retrieve the exhibit — I think it's up there. Just step —
COURT CLERK: Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. KELLY: I do.
JUDGE CANNONE: Good morning. You can sit or stand, however you're comfortable. Just bring — perfect. Thank you. All right, Mr. Lally, whenever you're ready.
MR. LALLY: Thank you. Good morning, sir.
MR. KELLY: Good morning.
MR. LALLY: Could you please state your name and spell your last name for the record?
MR. KELLY: Sure. Matthew Kelly. K-E-L-L-Y.
MR. LALLY: And so what is it that you do for work?
MR. KELLY: I'm a firefighter paramedic for Canton Fire.
MR. LALLY: And how long have you been a firefighter paramedic with Canton?
MR. KELLY: Approximately two and a half years.
MR. LALLY: And prior to working for the Canton Fire Department, what if any other employment did you have within that sort of field?
MR. KELLY: I worked for a private ambulance — Brewster Ambulance Service — for approximately five months.
MR. LALLY: And sort of geographically where was that located?
MR. KELLY: Boston area.
MR. LALLY: Now prior to you working as an EMT or paramedic, you worked as an EMT before working as a paramedic, correct? And so prior to working as either an EMT or paramedic, did you have any sort of training or did you receive any sort of certification in regard to being an EMT or paramedic?
MR. KELLY: Yes. So I had to do a six-month EMT course, and then I had to do a practical and written exam for the course and then for the state to get my EMT. And then for paramedic school it was about a 10 to 12 month didactic portion, and then I did about 200 hours clinical in the hospitals, and then I did 300 hours ride time, and then I had to do a practical and written exam for the course and also for the state. And now with Canton Fire I'm getting precepted as a paramedic.
MR. LALLY: And when you use that term — as far as "precepted" — what exactly does that term mean within your field?
MR. KELLY: It just means that you get trained by an experienced paramedic for an extended period of time until they say that you can do the job on your own.
MR. LALLY: And with regard to being an EMT and a paramedic, you receive a certification in regard to working within that field?
MR. KELLY: Can you say that again?
MR. LALLY: With regard to being an EMT and a paramedic, do you receive some sort of certification either from the state or some other body in regard to working in that field?
MR. KELLY: Yes, you have certification in regard to — yes.
MR. LALLY: And is that certification up to date?
MR. KELLY: Yes, it is.
MR. LALLY: Sir, if I can turn your attention to January 28th — the evening of that into January 29th, 2022 — were you working with the Canton Fire Department that day?
MR. KELLY: Yes, I was.
MR. LALLY: You recall what kind of shift you were working on that?
MR. KELLY: A 24-hour shift on the ambulance.
MR. LALLY: And which station house were you assigned to on that?
MR. KELLY: Station One.
MR. LALLY: And that's located where within the town of Canton?
MR. KELLY: 99 River Street.
MR. LALLY: And you were assigned to the ambulance, is that correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And who if anyone else from your department was assigned to the ambulance along with you?
MR. KELLY: Paramedic Anthony Flematti.
MR. LALLY: And on that morning of January 29th, do you recall about what time you woke up that day?
MR. KELLY: I believe it was about 4:45 a.m.
MR. LALLY: When you woke up, what if anything is it that you did with regard to your duties and responsibilities around Fire Station House One?
MR. KELLY: So we woke up a little bit early to shovel off the apron, shovel off the parking lot, and just prepare for the new shift coming in.
MR. LALLY: And just briefly, sir — when you go outside to shovel, what if anything do you recall about sort of the weather conditions and what they were at that point?
MR. KELLY: There was snow on the ground, it was snowing, high winds, low visibility, still dark out.
MR. LALLY: And you recall being dispatched to a call shortly after 6:00 a.m.?
MR. KELLY: Yes, I do.
MR. LALLY: And so what was that call or what was that dispatch in regard to, and where specifically were you dispatched?
MR. KELLY: It was an unresponsive male in the snow on Fairview Road.
MR. LALLY: And that area of Fairview Road — through your work with Canton Fire Department, are you familiar with that specific area?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And you respond in the ambulance, is that correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Who if anyone goes along in the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: Flematti was in the passenger seat and then paramedic Tim Nuttall was in the back.
MR. LALLY: Who was driving?
MR. KELLY: I was driving.
MR. LALLY: And in addition to Ambulance One that you were in, what if any other sort of vehicles or apparatus responded from your station to Fairview?
MR. KELLY: We also had an engine and our shift commander's SUV.
MR. LALLY: If you recall, who was the shift commander?
MR. KELLY: Shift commander was Captain Wendell Roby at the time.
MR. LALLY: And Captain Roby is now the chief of Canton Fire, is that correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And as far as the engine was concerned, who if anyone was assigned to the engine and responded to the call as well?
MR. KELLY: It was Lieutenant Greg Woodbury, firefighter paramedic Katie Moffin, and firefighter paramedic Frank Walsh.
MR. LALLY: And as you're driving from the station house to Fairview, what if anything do you recall about weather conditions, visibility, anything like that along your way?
MR. KELLY: Just heavy snow, wind, real low visibility, good amount of snow on the ground, so I was just trying to take it slow so we didn't spin out or drift or anything like that.
MR. LALLY: And can you describe for the jury sort of the route that you took from the station on River Street to Fairview Road that morning?
MR. KELLY: Yep. We took a right onto River Street, left onto Sherman Street, right onto Chapman Street, and then a left onto Fairview.
MR. LALLY: And as you're driving down Fairview, what if anything can you tell the jury about sort of the elevation of that roadway as you go from Chapman down to where you stopped?
MR. KELLY: It was a pretty steep, long road — downhill. It was probably downhill for half of the way through Fairview, and because of that I was just trying to go real slow so we didn't drift down the hill.
MR. LALLY: And one last question about driving — as you're driving along, what if anything else did you observe as far as sort of other vehicular traffic on the roadway, any other cars, trucks, anything like that?
MR. KELLY: Nothing until I saw the police cruiser at the scene.
MR. LALLY: And so as you're approaching the scene and you're driving towards it, what if anything sort of first draws your attention to where you're going and where you stop?
MR. KELLY: So it was just real low visibility, but we could see blue lights at the time, so just kept going towards the blue lights and knew that it would be in that area.
MR. LALLY: Now, where do you stop in relation to the cruiser?
MR. KELLY: I believe they were facing towards us, so we would be in front of them.
MR. LALLY: And at some point you're being dispatched for an unresponsive male party, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And so when you're pulling up to the scene, you see the cruiser — are you able to also see any sort of unresponsive male party?
MR. KELLY: Not when I'm in the truck. I had to get out of the truck to see.
MR. LALLY: And when was it and how far away from it were you at the first time that you observed the unresponsive male?
MR. KELLY: Once I got out of the truck, I was probably about 5 feet away until I could see the victim.
MR. LALLY: And at this time, when you're arriving sometime shortly after 6:00 a.m., is it light out, dark out, or something else?
MR. KELLY: It's dark.
MR. LALLY: And just so we can stop saying "unresponsive male" — at some point you identified who the patient was that you eventually treated and transported, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Who did you identify?
MR. KELLY: Mr. O'Keefe — John O'Keefe.
MR. LALLY: Is that correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: So you get out of the vehicle — you all get out at the same time, is that correct?
MR. KELLY: Relatively, yeah.
MR. LALLY: And where is it that you, firefighter Flematti, and firefighter Nuttall go?
MR. KELLY: So we first go to pick up some of the bags and stuff that we would need to conduct a cardiac arrest, and then we just go straight over to the body and some people that were around there.
MR. LALLY: And with regard to the bags that you retrieved, what kind of bags are we talking?
MR. KELLY: We take a first-in bag that has miscellaneous stuff, we'd take an airway bag, and we would take a cardiac monitor.
MR. LALLY: And you indicated — as far as where Mr. O'Keefe was — who if anyone else or how many other people were in that same area?
MR. KELLY: Sure. I remember seeing a police officer and two women.
MR. LALLY: And as far as where Mr. O'Keefe was — first of all, how was he positioned in relation to the ground?
MR. KELLY: He was on his back, probably about around a fire hydrant, probably about five or so feet from what I saw would be the street.
MR. LALLY: So you believed about five or so feet in from the road, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Now with regard to Mr. O'Keefe — when you first come over, what if anything did you observe as far as snow on him or around him or in the area where he was?
MR. KELLY: I don't really recall.
MR. LALLY: You recall how Mr. O'Keefe was dressed when you first get over there?
MR. KELLY: I believe he was wearing a hoodie — like a sweatshirt — and jeans, and I remember he had one shoe on, but — forget which shoe it was. I don't recall which shoe it was. But there was one shoe on his foot at that point.
MR. LALLY: Correct. And when you first arrive at this patient — at Mr. O'Keefe — what is it that you and the other firefighters are doing in regard to treatment at that point?
MR. KELLY: So the other firefighters were checking for a pulse, and then after that, while I was getting some of the supplies, we would start compressions and start moving him into the ambulance so we could get a better look at him and what we were doing.
MR. LALLY: When you say "start compressions," what kind of compressions are you referring to?
MR. KELLY: CPR. Chest compressions.
MR. LALLY: And based on your training and experience, is there some sort of protocol as to how long one individual should be doing chest compressions?
MR. KELLY: So we want early and continuous chest compressions for as long as the person is pulseless. We will take breaks in order to check for a pulse and check for any rhythm changes.
MR. LALLY: And so when breaks are taken, is that one person doing those same compressions the entire time, or is it switched off, or something else?
MR. KELLY: We try to switch off every few minutes.
MR. LALLY: Now when you first approach where Mr. O'Keefe is on the ground, what, if any, sort of injuries — if at all — did you observe on Mr. O'Keefe at that time?
MR. KELLY: On the ground I didn't observe any injuries or recall seeing any injuries at the time. It wasn't until we got him in the ambulance that I saw some injuries.
MR. LALLY: And so from that initial assessment and initial treatment of the patient, what exactly does that assessment and treatment consist of when Mr. O'Keefe is on the ground?
MR. KELLY: Basically just checking for breathing and if he has a pulse. It was pretty dark and very low visibility, so we wanted to get him out of the conditions and into the ambulance to further assess him.
MR. LALLY: And from your initial assessment, did he have a pulse?
MR. KELLY: No.
MR. LALLY: And so when you needed to get him out of the conditions, how was that accomplished?
MR. KELLY: I believe we used a scoop board or a scoop stretcher — just a backboard that breaks into two pieces that can slide underneath the victim or the patient. We used that and then picked him up and put him onto our actual EMS stretcher and then just put the stretcher into the ambulance.
MR. LALLY: And where was the stretcher placed in relation to where Mr. O'Keefe was — five feet off the road?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. LALLY: Now once you get to the ambulance, what if any difference did you notice between the lighting in the ambulance versus the lighting outside on the lawn?
MR. KELLY: So there was very low visibility outside; there was great visibility inside with the lighting all around the back of the ambulance.
MR. LALLY: And so once you're in the back of the ambulance, what if anything did you observe or note at that point in regard to any injuries you observed on Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. KELLY: He had a swollen, black and blue right eye, and he had some blood around his mouth.
MR. LALLY: Now as far as Mr. O'Keefe was concerned, during treatment you're obviously touching or making contact with Mr. O'Keefe's body, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And during the course of that, what if any observations — what if anything did you note in regard to sort of tactile observations of Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. KELLY: He was very cold to touch, very stiff, almost frozen-like.
MR. LALLY: Now at some point during the course of your treatment in the back of the ambulance, are his clothes removed?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Why is that?
MR. KELLY: It's just so we can try to examine his full body for any other injuries.
MR. LALLY: And there's some concern for cardiac arrest, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Are you familiar with that, sir?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Can you explain to the jury what your understanding, based on your training and experience, is as to what that is?
MR. KELLY: Sure. It would be when a person has a weak cardiac rhythm where they no longer have a pulse.
MR. LALLY: Now once the clothes are removed, how are they physically removed?
MR. KELLY: I believe they were probably cut off with trauma shears.
MR. LALLY: And once the clothes are removed — [unintelligible] — what if any additional observations did you make of injuries to Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. KELLY: There were some lacerations on his right upper extremity.
MR. LALLY: Now the chest compressions that you were talking about — was that continuous throughout the patient care with respect to Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And in addition to that, what if anything was done with respect to body temperature for Mr. O'Keefe once in the back of the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: So we did some rewarming — we did heat blankets and warm fluids.
MR. LALLY: And as the chest compressions continue in the back of the ambulance, what if anything did you observe with regard to Mr. O'Keefe's nose or mouth?
MR. KELLY: I remember there was some blood or vomit or bile coming out of his mouth.
MR. LALLY: Now turning your attention back outside of the ambulance — taking you back there for a moment — you indicated in testimony that when you arrived there you observed two females in the area where Mr. O'Keefe was. Is that correct?
MR. KELLY: Okay.
MR. LALLY: Can you describe anything as far as what they looked like or anything about those two females that you saw?
MR. KELLY: I just remember they were white, looked to be between 35 and 45 years old I would say, and average build and height.
MR. LALLY: What if any distinguishing characteristics did you observe between one or the other?
MR. KELLY: I remember one had some red stuff around her mouth — I was thinking it could be blood.
MR. LALLY: And that individual that you observed with red stuff that you thought to be blood around her mouth — what if any observation did you make of her as far as her demeanor or anything like that?
MR. KELLY: She was just acting kind of erratic and kind of running around screaming different things.
MR. LALLY: And as far as the different things that she was screaming, what if anything do you recall specifically hearing her say when she was running around?
MR. KELLY: It was just something like, "He's dead, he's dead."
MR. LALLY: Is that something that she said once or more than once?
MR. KELLY: At least twice.
MR. LALLY: As far as that sort of phraseology, was that consistent throughout?
MR. KELLY: I would say so, yes.
MR. LALLY: Now when you enter the ambulance, does the patient care continue — obviously with Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And if you recall, who was involved in that patient care in the back of the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: Me, Nuttall, Flematti, Woodbury, Walsh, and Moffin came in a little bit later — I'm not sure if she did any patient care or not.
MR. LALLY: The majority of the people from your department that responded to the scene at one point or another were involved in patient care with regard to [unintelligible], correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Now you drove the ambulance to Fairview, is that correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And so for the transport from Fairview, what hospital did you go to?
MR. KELLY: Good Samaritan.
MR. LALLY: So transport from Fairview to Good Samaritan — who drove the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: Moffin.
MR. LALLY: And so Firefighter Moffin's driving — where are you located within the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: I was in the back with Nuttall and Flematti.
MR. LALLY: Do you recall specifically what if anything you were doing with regard to patient care during the transport phase?
MR. KELLY: So I was just helping. I was doing compressions before, but we had switched them over to an automatic compression device. So I was just involved in helping ventilate and suction.
MR. LALLY: And was there anyone else in the back of the ambulance also working on the airway, if you recall?
MR. KELLY: I believe Nuttall and I — I forget who else.
MR. LALLY: Now during the course of transport from the scene, when you arrived at Good Samaritan, what if any change did you note in reference to Mr. O'Keefe — as far as heart activity, respiratory, anything like that?
MR. KELLY: No changes.
MR. LALLY: Miss Gilman, if I could ask for Exhibit Number Nine. Firefighter Kelly, I'm just directing your attention to the screen and what's been marked as Exhibit Number Nine. Do you recognize that?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And what do you recognize it as?
MR. KELLY: The location of the scene — the house that I responded to on January 29th.
MR. LALLY: Is that correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And Miss Gilman, if I could also have Exhibit Number 18. And again, sir, directing your attention to the screen — do you recognize the photograph on the screen?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. LALLY: What's depicted in that photograph?
MR. KELLY: The location of the scene again — sort of a different view of the same home.
MR. LALLY: Is that correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Can I approach the witness?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: This is the laser pointer — basically there's a button there, just press on that. Firefighter Kelly, using that laser pointer that you have before you, if you could please direct the jury's attention on the screen to whereabouts you located Mr. O'Keefe in that supine position when you first arrived.
MR. KELLY: Was about this area right here.
MR. LALLY: Thank you. Nothing further for this witness.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Cross-examination.
MR. YANNETTI: Yes, may we approach for a minute?
JUDGE CANNONE: Jury, remember you can stand up and stretch anytime.
MR. YANNETTI: Good morning, sir. Mr. Kelly, you and I have never met before, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: We've never had a conversation, in or out of court, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Now with regard to the clothing — —that John O'Keefe was wearing when you came upon him. I believe you remembered that he had on a pair of jeans?
MR. KELLY: To the best of my recollection, yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you remembered that he had a hoodie sweatshirt?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And what also stuck out in your mind is that he had only one shoe on, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: From your memory, you're not sure if it was the left or the right shoe, but it was one of those, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And you did not see another shoe or the matching shoe in the area anywhere around where he was lying, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And to your memory, you never saw that other shoe, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Now with regard to the removal of the clothing, I believe you testified before this jury on direct examination that trauma shears would have been used — is that accurate?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And what do those look like, how big are they, and if you could describe them?
MR. KELLY: They're about this big, so say 6 inches, and they have like a plastic or metal handle and then just kind of two curved blades that are used to cut.
MR. YANNETTI: And are they essentially a large pair of scissors?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And are they sharp in terms of the blades?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And they need to be somewhat heavy duty because you don't know what type of clothing you're going to have to cut through, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Where was it that the trauma shears were used in order to start to remove John O'Keefe's clothing that morning?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Do you recall if it was before he was put into the ambulance, during the ambulance ride, or after he was at the hospital?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall, but I believe it would be in the ambulance.
MR. YANNETTI: I'm sorry, there's a little bit of noise — could you repeat that?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall, but I believe it would be in the ambulance.
MR. YANNETTI: In the ambulance. And you wouldn't have waited until you got to the hospital because there was a reason why you were taking the clothing off, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And what was that reason?
MR. KELLY: To look for any other injuries that the patient might have.
MR. YANNETTI: And that was a priority as you were treating him, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: You don't think that you cut off his clothes before you put him in the ambulance, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And you don't think — and when I say "you" I mean your team, right — you don't think your team cut off the clothes after he was out of the ambulance, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: So it was sometime during the ride, right? Do you recall who it was that actually used the trauma shears along that ride?
MR. KELLY: No.
MR. YANNETTI: Do you recall at what point during the ride it would have been — sort of the beginning of the ride or would it have been toward the end?
MR. KELLY: Toward the beginning.
MR. YANNETTI: Now with regard to the clothing that was cut, do you recall if it was the sweatshirt, the jeans, or both?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Do you think — or is your memory — that the hoodie sweatshirt was left on him without being cut?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Where did that clothing go after it was cut by the trauma shears during that ride?
MR. KELLY: Some of it would stay right on the stretcher, but I don't recall on all of it.
MR. YANNETTI: And some of it could have been on the floor of the ambulance as well, potentially?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And then once the ambulance arrives at the hospital, what is the protocol regarding the clothing that has been cut?
MR. KELLY: It gets transferred over to the RN in charge of the patient, and usually stays in their room — usually they'll put it in some sort of bag.
MR. YANNETTI: And is the clothing put in the bag — does somebody meet you out at the ambulance in order to collect the clothing, or do you bring the clothing into the hospital in order to transfer it to an RN?
MR. KELLY: We bring it in.
MR. YANNETTI: And do you recall who it was that brought in that clothing?
MR. KELLY: No.
MR. YANNETTI: Who was with you at that time going into the hospital from the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: Nuttall and Flematti.
MR. YANNETTI: So it had to be one of the three of you that delivered that clothing to an RN, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Do you know if all the clothing was delivered to an RN or if some stayed in the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: And once you give the clothing to the RN, do you see where she takes it?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Did you go into the treatment room wherever John O'Keefe was brought once he was at the hospital?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you had previously testified that you believed the clothing would have been brought in with him, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Do you have a memory of seeing that clothing within that treatment room at the hospital?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Do you recall seeing the clothing on the floor?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay, now let's get back to when you first arrived on scene — actually, before I get to that, I did want to ask you a couple of questions about where you were at in terms of your career on January 28th/29th. You were a fairly new firefighter, correct?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you had been trained not long before January 29th, right — it was within several months?
MR. KELLY: Two months, yeah.
MR. YANNETTI: Oh, within two months. And your priority as a new firefighter was to follow your training, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: It was fresh in your mind, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: You wanted to do things the right way, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And particularly at the beginning of your career you don't want to develop any bad habits, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And you were following protocol once you got to the scene as best you could, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: I believe you testified on direct examination that when the ambulance got to 34 Fairview, as soon as it was parked, you and Anthony Flematti went straight to the body, correct?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall saying that. I wasn't sure who went straight to the body — I said some of us got some supplies.
MR. YANNETTI: I thought your testimony — correct me if I'm wrong — but I thought your testimony was that you may have gotten some supplies but then you and Flematti went straight to the body?
MR. KELLY: Yes, so we did — me and Nuttall got supplies, me and Nuttall went to the body.
MR. YANNETTI: All right, where was —
MR. KELLY: But we didn't go straight there — we got supplies first and then went to the body. Or I got supplies first and then went to the body.
MR. YANNETTI: How long did it take you to get supplies?
MR. KELLY: Probably within a minute, I would say.
MR. YANNETTI: And where was Flematti when you were getting supplies?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Once you got to the body, who assisted you with regard to treating John O'Keefe?
MR. KELLY: I believe it would be the people who were on scene with me.
MR. YANNETTI: Who would that have been?
MR. KELLY: Flematti, Nuttall, Walsh, Moffin, Woodbury, and Roby.
MR. YANNETTI: So is it your testimony — your memory — that five, six, however many people were there with you, all were hovered over John O'Keefe doing treatment on him?
MR. KELLY: Not treatment, but getting supplies, getting the stretcher — we were all working together but we weren't all in the treatment portion.
MR. YANNETTI: Sure, and the treatment was essentially CPR, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct — chest compressions, yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And dealing with his airway as well, correct?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Which of your co-workers and/or you were directly involved with the CPR, the chest compressions, and the airway issues?
MR. KELLY: I recall that I was doing compressions and helping suction and ventilate in the ambulance, but I do not recall who else was partaking in that.
MR. YANNETTI: So let's talk about when John O'Keefe was put on the scoop stretcher and then ultimately taken to the ambulance — who was with you when that was occurring?
MR. KELLY: It would have been me, Nuttall, Flematti, and Roby, I believe, who were trying to get him on the scoop, and then I believe the engine guys were trying to get the stretcher.
MR. YANNETTI: Who are the engine guys?
MR. KELLY: That would be Walsh — it must have been Walsh, Woodbury, and McLaughlin, but I don't recall who exactly.
MR. YANNETTI: All right, so your memory is that yourself, Nuttall, and Flematti were loading John O'Keefe onto the scoop?
MR. KELLY: I believe so, yeah.
MR. YANNETTI: And then from the scoop he's put on a stretcher, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And then who would it have been that wheeled the stretcher to the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall who it was.
MR. YANNETTI: So you have no memory of who would have taken John O'Keefe on that stretcher into the back of the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall who actually did it, but it would just be whoever is in the best location at the time to move the stretcher.
MR. YANNETTI: Do you have a memory of John O'Keefe going into the back of the ambulance?
MR. KELLY: Not a clear memory, no.
MR. YANNETTI: Who went into the ambulance with him?
MR. KELLY: Walsh, Woodbury.
MR. YANNETTI: And by the way, once he's on the scoop and then put on the stretcher, the priority is to get him into that ambulance, correct?
MR. KELLY: Yes, sir.
MR. YANNETTI: And part of the reason for that is he was cold, correct?
MR. KELLY: Yes, sir.
MR. YANNETTI: And your priority was you wanted to warm him up, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And the best place to do that would have been the inside of that ambulance, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: So it wasn't that he was put on the stretcher and then there was some detour in terms of where he was taken — you made a — or whoever took him made a beeline for the back of that ambulance in order to get him warm, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And once he's in the ambulance, the priority at that point would be to close the doors of the ambulance, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Because if you leave the doors open, there's a blizzard outside, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Let's go ahead, let me keep moving forward. And so the doors were closed to the ambulance, correct?
MR. KELLY: At some point, yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And inside the doors of that ambulance, as you testified, was — at least, not naming everybody — at least you and Nuttall and Flematti, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And once those doors were closed to the ambulance, none of you left the ambulance, correct — I'm talking specifically about you and Nuttall and Flematti?
MR. KELLY: I don't believe so, no.
MR. YANNETTI: You would have remained in the ambulance all the way to the hospital, and that's the point at which the doors would be open, correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: All right, now I'd like to ask you some questions about the scene that you Came upon — in terms of the people who were there when you arrived — sir, you had previously testified that you saw, I believe you testified, that you saw two women and a law enforcement officer already on scene? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: One of those women appeared to have blood around her mouth? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: It was something red but you assumed that it was blood? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And that led you to also believe that she had rendered or tried to render CPR? Correct? Is that what you thought?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And while you were on scene it was the woman who had the blood around her mouth who appeared to be most upset? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: She was really upset? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Would you go so far as to say she was distraught?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Hysterical?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Frantic?
MR. KELLY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you heard her say, "He's dead, he's dead," something like that? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And she didn't say it in the tone of voice that I just said it? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: She was screaming when she said that? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: It was very easy for you to discern that her words were "He's dead, he's dead"? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And she repeated it more than once? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And it's fair to say that at no point in time did you ever hear her say "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him"? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And you would agree with me, sir, that you have been extremely consistent in terms of your memory of what she said? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: You've been asked these questions not for the first time by ADA Lally or me in court today — there have been other occasions where people have asked you what did the woman with the blood on her mouth say when she was on scene? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: You were asked that by Trooper Proctor on February 9th of 2022? Correct?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: You know, it's probably unfair of me to say the date, but you do recall speaking to a state trooper not long after these incidents? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And to that state trooper you told him that what she said was "He's dead, he's dead"? Correct?
MR. KELLY: I don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: You don't recall saying anything differently than that, do you?
MR. KELLY: I remember saying a lot of things differently, but I might have also said that. I just don't recall.
MR. YANNETTI: Well — let me rephrase that. You don't recall changing her words at all. You've always said "He's dead, he's dead"? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: That was not only to the state police on February 9th, but then in April of 2022 you were in a grand jury setting? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: There was no defense attorney there on that day? Correct?
MR. KELLY: I don't believe so.
MR. YANNETTI: You don't remember seeing me there?
MR. KELLY: I didn't see — okay.
MR. YANNETTI: ADA Lally was asking the questions?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And there you also said that — well, I'm sorry — what the woman with the blood on her mouth said was "He's dead, he's dead"? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. YANNETTI: Would you agree with me, sir, that we heard what you heard that night, which is "He's dead, he's dead"?
MR. YANNETTI: And you've testified to that today?
PARENTHETICAL: [sidebar]
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. YANNETTI: What did you hear?
MR. KELLY: Yes, sir.
MR. YANNETTI: You've never changed that story? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And that is because the truth does not change? Correct?
MR. KELLY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: All right. At this point I'd like to play a 15-second portion of a video which I would offer as the next exhibit, your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. So we'll watch it — no narration, right?
MR. YANNETTI: Never. And before you start — I'm not as interested in the video, sir, I'm interested in the audio. So if you could listen as best you can. [unintelligible]
MR. KELLY: It was kind of hard for me to hear. I heard — about — "Does he do drugs?" I couldn't really hear the background.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. We approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. YANNETTI: Mr. Kelly, I got permission to play it one more time. I'll try my best. And by the way, before it's queued up — I would direct your attention more toward the beginning of that 15 seconds. There are things that happen. I think that you heard at the end. But you tell us what, if you can, hear what you can hear. Okay? [unintelligible]
MR. KELLY: I heard someone say "fucking dead."
MR. YANNETTI: Thank you.