Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveJennifer McCabe - Redirect/Recross
490 linesMR. LALLY: Yes, thank you. Good morning.
MS. MCCABE: Good morning.
MR. LALLY: Going back a little bit — you were asked questions about the Life360 application that you had on your phone, is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And you're familiar with that app, and familiar with using that app to see where your children are at various times, is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And from your experience using that app, how accurate is it as far as location, or time, or anything in regard to it?
MS. MCCABE: Pretty accurate — verifying some of their locations — and sometimes not.
MR. LALLY: Have you ever had instances in which you were told someone was somewhere and they were not there?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: You were asked some questions about Ryan Nagel's truck, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And — did you, on January 29th, 2022— —did you know Ryan Nagel?
MS. MCCABE: I did not.
MR. LALLY: Did you know what kind of vehicle he drove?
MS. MCCABE: I did not.
JUDGE CANNONE: Keep your voice up, Mr. Lally, please.
MR. LALLY: Do you know whether or not that was actually somebody else's truck?
MS. MCCABE: I do not know.
MR. LALLY: Did you know whether or not on January 29th, 2022, Ryan Nagel had a friend named Ricky?
MS. MCCABE: I do now, but on the 29th, did I? No.
MR. LALLY: On the 29th, did you have any idea what kind of vehicle he drove?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: This person you didn't know, right?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Now, when you looked outside — as far as the truck was concerned — did you even see a truck?
MS. MCCABE: I just saw lights — a vehicle. I didn't focus much attention over there.
MR. LALLY: So, fair to say you weren't paying— —attention to a truck you didn't see, from a person you didn't know, that you had never seen before?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained as to that form.
MR. LALLY: Now, you were asked some questions about texts between Ryan Nagel and Julie Nagel, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And as far as when those texts were sent — you don't know, do you? Can you clarify? Do you know whether or not Ryan Nagel texted his sister Julie before he had even pulled onto Fairview Road?
MS. MCCABE: They were texting — about his arrival. Texting about his arrival.
MR. LALLY: But do you know where Ryan Nagel was when he was texting Julie about his arrival?
MS. MCCABE: I believe he was outside.
MR. LALLY: But you don't know — is that fair to say?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. LALLY: Do you know— —whether or not Nagel was on Cedarcrest Road or somewhere else when he texted Julie that he was about to arrive?
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MR. LALLY: Do you know that?
MS. MCCABE: I don't know that, no.
MR. LALLY: As far as the defendant's motor vehicle and the truck that Mr. Nagel was in — did you see either of those vehicles arrive in front of Fairview Road?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: You saw them pull up?
MS. MCCABE: No, actually — are you asking if I saw them pulling up, or if I saw when they arrived? I did not see them pulling up.
MR. LALLY: So at some point after they arrived, your attention was drawn outside?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And when we're talking about you going to the door and looking outside — how long a period are you looking out?
MS. MCCABE: Not long.
MR. LALLY: So would you describe it as a glance, or more — were you staring intently at the vehicle out in front of the house?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. LALLY: How would you describe the manner in which you were looking out at the SUV in front of the house?
MS. MCCABE: I would go to the front door, I'd look out, I saw the vehicle, I believe I sent a text, and I went and sat back down.
MR. LALLY: Now, in any of those times that you went to the door — do you know how many times you went to the door?
MS. MCCABE: I don't know exactly — at least twice.
MR. LALLY: Is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: At least, yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, in those at least twice — well, at least twice that you saw the vehicle, and twice that you — and once that— you saw that the vehicle was gone, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, so I guess actually it was more than twice, because I saw the vehicle move as well.
MR. LALLY: And when you say as far as you saw the vehicle move — did you see the vehicle physically move, or it was in one place and then you came back later and it was in a different place?
MS. MCCABE: It was in one place and then when I came back it was further up.
MR. LALLY: Now at any of those points in time, did you — took a glance out the storm door — did you see anybody outside of the vehicle?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: Could you see inside of the vehicle?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: Do you see anybody outside other than Julie Nagel on the front lawn or front walkway or anything else?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: At any point in time while you were at 34 Fairview that night, did you see John O'Keefe?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: At any point in time when you texted John O'Keefe after you arrived at Fairview, did John O'Keefe respond?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: At any point in time after you arrived at Fairview, after you hung up from the 12:18 a.m. call in which you were describing where 34 Fairview was in reference to Bella's house, did you ever hear from John O'Keefe ever again?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: And during that about 20-minute or so period of time when Mr. O'Keefe or the defendant's SUV is in front of the house, you never heard anything from John O'Keefe, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And did that strike you as unusual, as far as him not responding?
MS. MCCABE: I thought it was strange, but then I thought that they just might have decided to go home or had gotten into a fight, or Karen wanted him home.
MR. LALLY: Now you're looking out through the storm door and you see the Lexus with its lights on, right?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And from that area — the secondary area up by the flagpole and the fire hydrant — that's the same area where you found John O'Keefe the next morning, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And with reference to that area, is there any lights as far as street lights or anything that you're aware of in that area?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: It's a dark area in the corner of the lot. Now at any point in time, were you looking, or were you expecting to see John's body on the lawn?
MS. MCCABE: Absolutely not.
MR. LALLY: And it's fair to say when you're looking in the dark in the snow from the storm door out towards a vehicle, not the same conditions as if you're standing in a courtroom or sitting in a courtroom today about 10 feet away from somebody during the daytime with lights on, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: In fact, when you go back to Fairview the next morning — and again, who was the person who requested or directed to go to Fairview?
MS. MCCABE: Karen.
MR. LALLY: And so when you go to Fairview along with the defendant and Ms. Roberts at the defendant's direction, sometime around 6:00 a.m., when was it that you first saw Mr. O'Keefe?
MS. MCCABE: I wasn't the one to first see him. Karen was.
MR. LALLY: So she's banging on the door asking to be let out, she goes directly over to the body, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And neither you nor Ms. Roberts — well, you didn't see Mr. O'Keefe on the lawn until after she did that, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And that was after you had already sort of driven a little bit past where he was, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Now with reference — you get home from Fairview around 2 a.m. or somewhere in that time frame, you go up to bed, and you do some searches on your phone, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And so there's a Safari tab or application on your phone — that's where you access Google?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Is that typically where you would access Google?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And you were looking at Ozone basketball, you're also looking at hawach — is that right?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. LALLY: What, if anything else, were you looking at beyond the Ozone basketball you talked about?
MS. MCCABE: We had had an exciting game earlier in the night against a local town that has a very good basketball program, so I went on hawach Sports to look at the recap, and typically I'll do that to see how other teams did, et cetera.
MR. LALLY: And around that same time, is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Now, when you did that, as far as looking things up on Google, were you opening up new tabs within Safari as you were looking at different websites or different topics?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: And when you went to bed or you went to sleep that evening, at some point you turned off your phone, right?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And did you exit out of that Safari tab that you were doing those searches with regards to Ozone and hawach?
MS. MCCABE: No, I used to always leave my tabs open and my kids would yell at me —
MR. LALLY: As far as having multiple tabs open, is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: Drains my battery, et cetera. Yes.
MR. LALLY: So then flash forward to sometime after 6 a.m. — you're on the side of the road and the defendant asks you to conduct or look up something with regard to hypothermia or how long to die in the cold, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: When you open that up and you go into Google, did you open up a new tab or did you just sort of go into what you had already open in the Safari tab?
MS. MCCABE: I went into what I already had open.
MR. LALLY: And that's where you perform the search — is that right? Excuse me, that's where you perform the search that you were just being asked about?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And you never made any search like that at 2:27 in the morning, correct?
MS. MCCABE: I did not. No.
MR. LALLY: Now again, you've been shown what's been called a Cellebrite extraction report, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Are you familiar with how many Cellebrite extraction reports were conducted in reference to your phone?
MS. MCCABE: I think a couple. I'm actually not sure.
MR. LALLY: And prior to January 29th, 2022, had you ever seen a Cellebrite extraction report?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: As you sit here today, do you even really know what that is?
MS. MCCABE: Not really. No.
MR. LALLY: Do you know what a WAL file is?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: Do you know what an SQLite database is?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: Do you know what a KnowledgeC database is?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: Do you know how information is stored and kept within your cell phone?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: Now, you had four children and you were a mom, a homemaker, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: At some point you did work though, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: What did you do for work?
MS. MCCABE: I was an elementary school teacher.
MR. LALLY: What grade did you teach?
MS. MCCABE: Fifth —
JUDGE CANNONE: One question, and we'll see where this goes.
MR. LALLY: What grade did you teach?
MS. MCCABE: Fifth.
MR. LALLY: And how long did you teach fifth grade?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yeah, I'm going to see counsel inside. Feel free to stand up.
MR. LALLY: If I could take you back to 4:53 in the morning — that is when you get that first call from Kaylee Furbush, is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: You answer that call and then the defendant is put on the line, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And so what is the first sort of iteration of the story that the defendant tells you happened the night before?
MS. MCCABE: That they got into a fight, she left him at the Waterfall, and he never came home.
MR. LALLY: And at some point later you confront her — you saw the vehicle out front of the house, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And so then what is — the defendant's story changed?
MS. MCCABE: It changed multiple times. I'm not sure exactly. She said — oh, at one point, "Oh my God, I don't even remember going there." She was telling other people that he was dead, that a plow hit him. The story changed multiple times that morning.
MR. LALLY: Now on cross-examination you were played a voicemail — do you know whose phone that voicemail was from?
MS. MCCABE: They never said. No.
MR. LALLY: Fair to say that you're on 911 in the background of that phone call, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: So it wasn't your phone, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Um.
MR. LALLY: And there are two other people beyond that — as far as Ms. Roberts and the defendant — there, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Was Kerry on the phone at all, that you saw?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: And so with reference to the timing of that phone call — you had called 911 and you were on the phone with 911 at the time that that recording starts, right?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: So you had gotten out of the car, you had gone around, and then seen where the defendant had run over to —
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained as to the form.
MR. LALLY: What had you done before you placed that 911 call?
MS. MCCABE: I got out of the car, I ran behind the car over to the body. I was in a state of shock for a couple of seconds. Kerry and I looked at each other and I said I'm going to call 911.
MR. LALLY: And there was a period of time when you made the call before it connected, and you said you bounced around to different agencies, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And this is after the defendant has hit the door and run from the vehicle over to the spot, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: So if it's not your phone and it's not Ms. Roberts's phone, fair inference is the defendant's phone, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And so this phone call had been made or started recording at some point before you had even gotten out of the car, made your way over to Mr. O'Keefe, been in a state of shock for a few seconds, called 911, connected to 911 — so at some point it had to have been made in the car, correct?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
MR. LALLY: Ask it differently. Do you know when that voicemail — or that recording that you heard — do you know when that call was placed?
MS. MCCABE: I don't.
MR. LALLY: Now at the time that you are making the 911 call, where is the defendant in relation to the vehicle?
MS. MCCABE: She is over with Mr. O'Keefe.
MR. LALLY: You mentioned that the part beyond the 911 call where you heard yourself talking — you're at the rear of Ms. Roberts's vehicle?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And why are you at the rear of Ms. Roberts's vehicle?
MS. MCCABE: In the beginning I'm at the rear gathering towels or blankets, and then a few times I go to the rear because I'm trying to speak with the 911, and Karen is screaming hysterically, and then Kerry starts screaming at her to calm down. It was quite chaotic, so I was moving away so that I could be clear with the operators.
MR. LALLY: Now at some point you went into your — — sister's house at 34 Fairview Road, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And why did you move?
MS. MCCABE: Officer Lank asked me to go in and wake them up.
MR. LALLY: So you were asked to go in there by the police to wake them up, correct?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. LALLY: And at some point you indicated that you had called Officer Lank to come back to the house, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And how did you get his number again?
MS. MCCABE: Julie Albert.
MR. LALLY: And as far as you're aware, whether or not Brian Albert, Colin Albert, or any of the other people that were present had Officer Lank's number?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. LALLY: Why did you ask Julie Albert and not Brian Albert and Nicole Albert?
MS. MCCABE: Because I knew she was the only one that had his number.
MR. LALLY: You were asked some questions — — asked some questions about when you're on scene, and you indicated in your testimony on direct that you've heard the defendant say "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him," correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: You also, early in your testimony, had indicated that earlier in the morning the defendant had phrased that differently — as far as [unintelligible] — "did I" — correct?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained as to the form.
MR. LALLY: Did the defendant make a variety of statements over the course of the — correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And more to my point — as far as — you recall testifying at another hearing under oath in June of 2023, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall being asked some questions specifically about this —
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. [unintelligible] Yes, go ahead.
PARENTHETICAL: [pause — witness reviews document, pages 816–817]
MR. LALLY: Yeah. As I was asking before, in June of 2023 you testified in another proceeding, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And you were asked questions specifically about those statements — uh, that you heard the defendant say on the morning of January 28th, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And do you recall specifically what your testimony was in regard to that portion of your — in regard to the —
MS. MCCABE: I don't recall specifics. Um, I just — I know what I know. I know what happened.
MR. LALLY: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: I'm giving you two pages. Direct your attention to the bottom of the first page and then into the next page. Just review that to yourself and look up.
COURT OFFICER: The page again, Mr. Lally — you're on 816 and 817.
MR. LALLY: Thank you. May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Ma'am, is your memory refreshed as to what you said in that prior proceeding in regard to those statements?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And what did you say?
MS. MCCABE: What did I say in that? I told them that Karen looked straight at me and said "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him," and I said that there was — I believe an EMT that overheard as well.
MR. LALLY: Now, you recall in that same prior proceeding, uh, being asked any questions — sort of at different times — the defendant saying different iterations of that same statement?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained as to form. No leading, Mr. Lally.
MR. LALLY: With respect to that prior — that testimony — that same prior proceeding, uh, what if anything else were you asked about — uh, statements that the defendant made to you that morning?
MS. MCCABE: I was asked what were some of the statements that Miss Read had made, and, um — it was like, repeat: "did I hit him," "could I have hit him," "is he dead, is he dead, is he dead," "could I have hit him," "did I hit him," "I have a cracked tail light," and then "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him."
MR. LALLY: And so with respect to — as far as "did I hit him" or "could I have hit him," and the statement "I hit him" — those were at different times, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Now, you met with Trooper Proctor on January 29th, is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Was that the first time that you had met him?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Was anyone with him when he met — um —
MS. MCCABE: I believe it was Trooper Yuri.
MR. LALLY: And subsequent to that day, did you meet with other Troopers?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And by "other Troopers" I mean not Trooper Proctor and not Trooper Bukhenik —
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And with respect to meeting with other Troopers, was it at that point that they had talked to you about taking your phone, correct — and they asked you for your phone, is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: I had shared my Life360 and my texts, and they, um, asked if they could take a copy of my phone.
MR. LALLY: And did you agree to that?
MS. MCCABE: I agreed — — to it, yes.
PARENTHETICAL: [pause]
MR. LALLY: And were you presented a form at all in regard to your agreeing to hand over your phone?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And beyond what you would testify to earlier — as far as things — were there any limitations that you put on what they could look at or take from your phone?
MS. MCCABE: No limitations.
MR. LALLY: Yes, I'm showing you a document. [unintelligible] Just in general, ma'am, do you recognize that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: What do you recognize that to be?
MS. MCCABE: This was the consent form for my phone.
MR. LALLY: So that's the form you filled out with the Troopers in regards to giving over your phone, correct? May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Is there an objection, Mr. Jackson?
MR. JACKSON: No objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Thank you. [Exhibit admitted]
MR. LALLY: Thank you. Now, again, Ms. McCabe — initially, um — that the event — initially that morning, around 6:00 a.m. or so, at some point you were seeking — or you would actually ask the defendant for Carrie Roberts's phone number, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Why is it that you were looking for Carrie's number specifically?
MS. MCCABE: Well, she was — the driving conditions were terrible — she was driving to [unintelligible] to pick up Mr. and Mrs. O'Keefe, and then they were heading to the hospital, and I was just looking to see how John was doing.
MR. LALLY: Now, you would mention — uh, at some point, did you speak to Miss Roberts that morning in regard to updates as far as how John was doing?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And you mentioned that later on — uh, either that day or the next day — that you had gone over to Mr. O'Keefe's house with Miss Roberts, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And who was driving at the time that you went over to O'Keefe's house with Miss Roberts?
MS. MCCABE: Carrie was driving.
MR. LALLY: And so when you left O'Keefe's house, where was it that you went?
MS. MCCABE: Carrie went to drop her daughter off at her friend's house — the daughter of Sgt. Lank.
MR. LALLY: And you were just in the front passenger seat of that vehicle, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: You had mentioned, as far as, um, getting together with Miss Roberts at the request of someone, uh, to talk about a timeline, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And can you explain to the jury sort of how that came about — or who was making that request?
MS. MCCABE: Carrie called me and she told me that she had talked to Peggy, and Peggy had —
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to allow it.
MS. MCCABE: — and Peggy had suggested to Carrie, you know, "You guys should write a timeline. You know, you don't want to forget anything. You know, when the time comes" — meaning if, when the trial comes — "you don't want to forget anything that happened."
MR. LALLY: And just to be clear — when you say "Peggy," who are you referring to?
MS. MCCABE: Mrs. O'Keefe, John's mother.
MR. LALLY: John's mother, correct. Now, you were asked uh some questions about a subsequent date, as far as, um, hearing bits and pieces or portions of Miss Roberts and two troopers at your home, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Do you know whether or not that was the first time that Miss Roberts had talked to Troopers or officers or anyone from either Canton Police or State Police?
MS. MCCABE: I believe on the 29th in the afternoon, Troopers went to her house. I said that would have been the first time.
MR. LALLY: So the time that she was at your home and speaking to Troopers, that would have been at least the second time that she had spoken to Troopers?
MS. MCCABE: Cor—
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. LALLY: Now, with reference to Miss Roberts and her phone — was Miss Roberts, at the time that you handed your phone over to the Troopers, present there as well?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And what if anything did you see Miss Roberts do with respect to her phone and the Troopers?
MS. MCCABE: She turned her phone over as well and signed the consent.
MR. LALLY: Now, during that time you had indicated, uh, that you had heard a statement — uh, that horrified you in some way, is that correct? From Miss Roberts?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, correct.
MR. LALLY: What was that? What was she talking about?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: The door has been opened, Mr. Jackson. That means you can answer.
MS. MCCABE: Okay, so basically Carrie is a talker, and once she started —
JUDGE CANNONE: I think just focus on what she said.
MS. MCCABE: Okay. She said something like "John really loved Amy, and in my eyes Karen was just a babysitter with benefits."
MR. LALLY: And is that what made it memorable to you as far as what had transpired at that time?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: At any point in time, did you ever coordinate your statement or Miss Roberts's statements with her prior to testifying at any hearing or any proceeding, at any point — — in time?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: Let me ask you — when you came to the area of 34 Fairview Road around 6:00 a.m., uh, and you saw Mr. O'Keefe, was he in the same clothes that you had seen him in earlier?
MS. MCCABE: He had jeans and I believe the same shirt on, yes.
MR. LALLY: And nothing additional as far as a jacket or anything like that that you saw?
MS. MCCABE: Not that I recall.
MR. LALLY: Now, again, as you were driving down Fairview Road — um, if the defendant did not bang on the door and essentially jump out of the car and make a beeline over to Mr. O'Keefe —
PARENTHETICAL: [Objection.]
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. No record.
MR. LALLY: When you were leaving 34 Fairview Road earlier — as far as sometime between [unintelligible time] — when Mr. McCabe is driving — um, do you recall whether or not — ...the roads were plowed or treated, or anything that you saw at that time?
MS. MCCABE: I know there was snow on them, but I can't recall specifics.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as the defendant coming over to your house shortly after 5:00 a.m. — was that something that you were expecting at the time?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. LALLY: And what was it prior to the defendant showing up and sort of screaming in front of your house — what was your sort of plan, as far as based on the information that Miss Read had given you?
MS. MCCABE: My husband and I were going to go out and we were going to drive over to [unintelligible]'s house to see if John was there.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as the 911 call that you were making — that information that you were providing — what was that based on?
MS. MCCABE: What I was seeing. But as far as how Mr. O'Keefe had come to be there at 34 Fairview Road — when you're communicating any of that to the 911 operator, or to an officer on scene, was that from your observations when you were inside 34 Fairview after the Waterfall, or from some other — Well, it was from what Karen was saying as we were driving there.
MR. LALLY: So as far as him being dropped off, or anything like that, that came from the defendant?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Now, as far as — you testified about going over to Trooper Proctor's house to meet with his wife, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Correct.
MR. LALLY: And you testified about certain incidents of harassment that you had undergone, as well as Mrs. Proctor, is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: How long had that been going on at that point?
MS. MCCABE: At that point it started in April, and now I believe I went over there in September.
MR. LALLY: And what if anything was the frequency of the harassment — is it sporadic, or how often were you experiencing that?
MS. MCCABE: Daily. Sometimes hourly.
MR. LALLY: And in addition to what you've already testified, what if any other incidents do you recall specifically involving either you or your children or your home?
MS. MCCABE: People come by my house, they take video, they scream. They've gone to my children's sporting events and called me names. They've written letters to my daughter's colleges and said that they shouldn't allow them to play, and then they've attached these horrible articles that have been complete lies about all of us. They send me Facebook messages, they call my phone — home phone and cell phone — all hours of the night. They tell me to kill myself, they tell me I'm a terrible mother, they harass my children. My daughter testified here the other day — we didn't even get out of the building and people were, you know, saying horrendous things, that she's a liar, your mother should die. It's just — it's unimaginable what my entire family is going through.
MS. MCCABE: I go to the beach, they take pictures, they post it, they threaten that their eyes are everywhere. I'll never be able to live a normal life again. I am a witness — that's all I am. I am not on trial. I am a witness, and these people are terrorizing me.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained as to that part. I'll strike that part. Everything else will stand.
MR. LALLY: Okay. And so your understanding is that Mrs. Proctor had sustained similar issues as you had, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Now, again, Trooper Michael Proctor — never met him prior to January 29, 2022, correct?
MS. MCCABE: I have never met him prior. No.
MR. LALLY: And the time that you went over to meet with Elizabeth Proctor — was Trooper Michael home at that time?
MS. MCCABE: No, he was not home.
MR. LALLY: And had you ever been over to his house prior to that, or anytime subsequent to that?
MS. MCCABE: No, never.
MR. LALLY: Now, you did have some conversations with Trooper Proctor following this day. And — let me ask you this — you testified a bit about a rolling rally, is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Can you describe to the jury sort of what that was, or what occurred on that day?
MS. MCCABE: So that day in July, a group got together under one blogger and they all met, and they decided to go to different houses. So Michael Proctor had been made aware of what was happening, so he had reached out to tell me what was going to be happening and how they had set up some cameras. It was a Saturday — I had just come home from vacation with my children and my husband. Mrs. O'Keefe picked up my two younger children and brought them out with her so they wouldn't be home for this. And my two older children and my husband were in the house while about — I don't know — 50 to 75 people came to my house. They screamed, they yelled, "there's a murderer," they just caused an absolute ruckus outside.
MR. LALLY: And prior to that, did you have any conversations with Proctor and other troopers from the state police about knowledge of that incident occurring prior to its occurrence?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And as far as setting up sort of pole cameras around your house to memorialize whatever was going to happen?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. LALLY: Now, you were asked questions with regard to the Google search. Again, that was initiated after 6 a.m. — why?
MS. MCCABE: Again, because Miss Read asked me to Google how long it takes to die from hypothermia. She said, "Google hypothermia, Google how long it takes to die in the cold." She was shaking me, screaming at me to do it.
MR. LALLY: And she's shaking you as you're typing, is that correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And there are some misspellings, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I also have MS and I have issue —
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow.
MS. MCCABE: I have MS and I have, you know, issues with my hands, so I a lot of times Google and make errors. But the cold also makes my hands go completely numb, so I'm not surprised that that's how it would come out.
MR. LALLY: When you were in your bedroom sometime after 2 a.m., fair to say the defendant wasn't there shaking you when you were Google searching for [unintelligible]?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. One moment.
MR. LALLY: Nothing further.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Concerning the statement "I hit him" — you gave a statement on January 29th to Sergeant Lank — called him over to specifically give him a statement, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Gave a statement later that day to Trooper Proctor, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You were also met with on that following Tuesday with a trooper by the name of Prince, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And then you testified in April of 2022, no fewer than 12 times, about statements that you attributed to Miss Read, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And in not one of those instances — not one — is there a report that says you said she said "I hit him," correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Although I told Mike Lank —
MR. JACKSON: Oh, we already know that the officers all got it wrong.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Just to that. Next question please, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: So you indicate that the harassment that you just described — this terrible harassment — started in about April 2023, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: It was around the time that there were public hearings concerning this Google search, is that right? Oh, is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure exactly when the Google search came out.
MR. JACKSON: But you do know that you started suffering this harassment — that you've claimed is awful and terrible — around April of 2023, is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't claim it's awful. It is awful.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, I'm sure it is awful.
MS. MCCABE: I'm sure it's terrible.
MR. JACKSON: It is. It sucks to be harassed. It really does.
MS. MCCABE: Yeah, I'm sure it does.
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor —
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, so that's sustained. I'll strike it. Go ahead and ask a question, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: You were upset by April of 2023 that there was public outrage about your family being involved in the death of John — that's what you were upset about, correct?
MS. MCCABE: I was upset that we, as witnesses, were being harassed.
MR. JACKSON: You were upset about public outrage concerning this case, correct?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. That was answered. Next question.
MR. JACKSON: And two months later — two months later — in June of 2023, for the first time, you testified at another proceeding, and, lo and behold, you attributed the word "I" to my client for the first time, right?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: So ask that without the objectionable phrase.
MR. JACKSON: Two months later, at another proceeding in June of 2023, you attributed the statement "I hit him" to my client, for the first time, under oath, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Under oath, correct.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated when you turned your phone in, the police were perfectly okay with you deleting communications with your children, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Including Allie, who's a material witness in this trial —
JUDGE CANNONE: So part of that is objectionable, and I'll sustain that.
MR. JACKSON: So you're aware that your daughter Allie was a witness in this case?
MS. MCCABE: At the time, I was not aware of that. No.
MR. JACKSON: But you did know that ultimately she was going to indicate that she drove Colin home —
MS. MCCABE: Correct. We knew that at the time.
JUDGE CANNONE: That's sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Did you know at the time that she had driven Colin home, or she said she drove —
MS. MCCABE: — in? I had no idea she drove him home.
MR. JACKSON: But you deleted all those communications with Allie, didn't you?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Did you delete all the communications that you had off your phone with Allie, your daughter?
MR. LALLY: Objection. So this has already been answered, but go ahead — finish. Let's finish this loop.
MR. JACKSON: Did you delete them?
MS. MCCABE: I deleted the conversations with my four daughters. At that time, Allie was not a witness.
MR. JACKSON: All I asked you — you heard my question — did you or did you not delete the communication?
MR. LALLY: Objection. That's been answered.
MR. JACKSON: You said that there was this statement that horrified you — your words, "horrified you" — that Kerry Roberts made during her interview. You were eavesdropping, right?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure if she made it during that interview. I'd have to look back to see when — I said she told them everything, and [unintelligible] — because I know she had said it to me multiple times. So I'm not sure if it's when she said it in the interview, or just in general when she said, "I told them everything," "I told them," et cetera.
MR. JACKSON: So when you said in that group chat, "she's telling them everything" — that might not even be what you're talking about?
MS. MCCABE: No, it was.
MR. JACKSON: And you said that that horrified you, correct?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't know Kerry Roberts, so yes, her statement horrified me.
MR. JACKSON: Horrified you?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, that was horrifying. And in that —
MR. JACKSON: ...group chat, your response to that horrifying statement was three words: "I love it." Was there a response prior to that?
MS. MCCABE: You tell me, ma'am. I'm not the one under oath. You are.
MR. JACKSON: Well, if you want to show me it again, I'd love to.
JUDGE CANNONE: Do you have it handy, Mr. Jackson?
MR. JACKSON: I don't. I'll grab it.
JUDGE CANNONE: It's okay.
MR. JACKSON: It's been marked and entered. It was the packet this morning that I used. May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: For the record, yes. Take a look at those two pages.
MS. MCCABE: Could you tell me what pages, please?
MR. JACKSON: 169 and the second page.
MS. MCCABE: This— if you don't mind, what's the second number?
MR. JACKSON: Miss McCabe, the number in the bottom right.
MS. MCCABE: 2170. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Do you have that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: May I, your honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: During that conversation, when you said "she's telling them everything," that came right on the heels of your husband saying "this girl could write a book" — "this woman could write a book" — or something like that. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: She talks non-stop, right? Then, two texts down, "she's telling them everything." Correct?
MS. MCCABE: The text just before that was "I love it." That was in response to my— —husband saying "this girl could write a book."
MR. JACKSON: What's the next thing that you wrote to that group? Within a second of that, "she is telling them everything." Right? Nowhere in that text chain did you say something along the lines of "oh my goodness, I'm so horrified." Did you?
MS. MCCABE: Those are phone conversations. Nowhere in those texts that you just saw do you see the words — or write the words — "I'm so horrified." No, because it was already spoken about.
MR. JACKSON: You were asked on that morning, January 29th, 2022, as you drove to the location — and ultimately to 34 Fairview — what ultimately happened, and your testimony was, as you approached, my client was searching frantically for J—
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I don't believe I said she was searching frantically for John O'Keefe. She was screaming frantically in the back seat and texting in the back seat.
MR. JACKSON: Was she just sitting there curled up in the back seat sucking her thumb, or was she searching out the window?
MS. MCCABE: She was screaming — between Kerry and I — so I'm not really sure how she saw John over here when her head is up here screaming and then looking down and texting.
MR. JACKSON: Was the whole point of that trip, Miss McCabe, to search for John?
MS. MCCABE: It was, because she knew where he was.
MR. JACKSON: The whole point of that trip was to look for him. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: She directed us to go to 34 Fairview.
PARENTHETICAL: [Sidebar]
JUDGE CANNONE: Thank you. Please be seated.
MR. JACKSON: The whole point of the trip was to look for John. Correct — at 34 Fairview, where Karen said to go — and your testimony is that if it hadn't been for Karen jumping out of that truck, you wouldn't have stopped. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Because I wouldn't have seen him. I didn't know he was there. She did.
MR. JACKSON: Yes or no — was that your statement? If she hadn't gotten out of the car, you wouldn't have stopped?
MS. MCCABE: I don't believe it was stated like that. I believe there was a question and I answered, and the question was "would you have stopped?" And your answer was what? Was the— what was the direct question?
MR. JACKSON: Oh my goodness, ma'am, it was five minutes ago.
MS. MCCABE: Did he ask— did you see something? You like to change words. I just want to be certain.
JUDGE CANNONE: So, Mr. Jackson, just keep it to questions, not comment.
MR. JACKSON: You were asked just a second ago by Mr. Lally if Karen Read had jumped out of the car, you wouldn't have stopped. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. All right, Miss McCabe, we are finished. Um, jurors, I'm going to ask you to follow them out, like you've done. We'll take a recess, and this one might be a little longer. I may need to— Jurors, just leave your notebooks on the chairs. All right, follow me. In an effort to save a little time, why don't I see counsel at sidebar? Find out exactly what you want from me.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, so jurors, I waited until the last witness left the stand, and until you all had your morning break, to give you one other instruction. And this one — all the instructions are important — but this one's important, so I want you to focus on it. Now, you heard from the last witness — and you may hear from other witnesses — who described what Miss McCabe called harassment and public demonstration. I believe she referred to a rolling rally. I permitted that testimony for a very limited purpose. That testimony was not offered, nor may you consider it as evidence that Miss Read has bad— —character or propensity to commit crime. In fact, there's no evidence before you that the defendant is responsible for that conduct that was described by Miss McCabe.
JUDGE CANNONE: The evidence is relevant only insofar as it goes to the witnesses, or to explain the witness's state of mind — so Miss McCabe's state of mind — and that is, to the extent it explains Miss McCabe's conduct, or statements, or actions at any particular time. And ultimately, the testimony may be used by you only as it goes to the witness's credibility. Okay. Thank you very much. So, Mr. Lally, your next witness, please.
MR. LALLY: Yes. The Commonwealth calls Miss Kerry Roberts to the stand.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.