Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveColin Albert - Cross
1,009 linesCOURT CLERK: administers oath — garbled Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. ALBERT: I do.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Whenever you're ready, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Mr. Albert, who did you talk to in order to prepare for your testimony starting yesterday?
MR. ALBERT: Can you rephrase that question, please?
MR. JACKSON: Rephrase the question — you didn't understand my question?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Who did you speak to in order to prepare for your testimony yesterday?
MR. ALBERT: My lawyer.
MR. JACKSON: Other than your lawyer, who did you speak to to prepare for your testimony yesterday?
MR. ALBERT: No one.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't speak to your parents?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't speak to your mom, your dad?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: At any time before yesterday, about your testimony or your statements?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Did you discuss with your parents their testimony?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: So after they got off the witness stand, your dad didn't come home and say "Here's how my day went"?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Your mom didn't come home and say "Here's how my day went"?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: The Albert family just ignored the fact that both of them testified in a court of law before a jury about the events of January 29th, 2022? Nothing was ever said?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did you talk to Mr. Lally at any point — at any point — before yesterday, in preparation for your testimony before yesterday?
MR. ALBERT: You said correct?
MR. JACKSON: Yes.
MR. ALBERT: Tell me when.
MR. JACKSON: I want to say a month ago.
MR. ALBERT: About what?
MR. JACKSON: I got prepped for this. Tell me what that means. What does it mean to prep for this?
MR. ALBERT: What I'm going to be getting asked.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Remember my first question — very first question this morning — I said "Have you spoken to anybody in order to prepare for your testimony?" You said no. Yeah, so that's not true — spoken to
MR. ALBERT: Mr. Lally — okay.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Is — okay, it's yes or no.
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You said that was about a month ago. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Around a month ago?
MR. ALBERT: I'm sorry, didn't mean — around a month ago.
MR. JACKSON: Tell me what you and Mr. Lally discussed.
MR. ALBERT: The questions I would be asked here.
MR. JACKSON: Can you be more detailed?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember everything he said.
MR. JACKSON: Did he go over the questions that he believed he would ask?
MR. ALBERT: I believe so.
MR. JACKSON: Did you give him answers to those questions that you believed you would give in response to his questions?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What questions did he tell you he was going to ask?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: What answers did you tell him you were going to give?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: That was just a month ago. Right?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Obviously you've been thinking about this case quite a bit, haven't you?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Over the last two and a half years?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: How long have you been thinking about this case?
MR. ALBERT: Since — I guess — since people started writing about me on the internet.
MR. JACKSON: How about since you were at a house where an individual ended up dead on the lawn the next morning? Did that prompt you to start thinking about this case?
MR. ALBERT: No, not so much.
MR. JACKSON: Huh? No?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: When Mr. Lally spoke with you, who else was there?
MR. ALBERT: The witness advocate, I believe, and Steve Nelson.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Who else?
MR. ALBERT: And is it Sergeant Tully?
MR. JACKSON: I believe — Tully, T-U-L-L-Y?
MR. ALBERT: I believe so, yes.
MR. JACKSON: Anybody else?
MR. ALBERT: Not that I remember.
MR. JACKSON: Was Sergeant Tully taking notes while you were having this conversation with Mr. Lally?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Lally taking notes?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: You remember being told by either Sergeant Tully or Mr. Lally that your conversation was being recorded?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: How long was that meeting?
MR. ALBERT: Say 15 minutes, 20 minutes.
MR. JACKSON: Were you given any instructions by either Sergeant Tully or Mr. Lally about your preparation for your testimony?
MR. ALBERT: Can you rephrase that please?
MR. JACKSON: Sure. Did they give you any instructions about the preparation for your testimony — how they wanted you to answer questions in your testimony?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: How they wanted you to dress, for instance?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Other than that time a month ago, have you spoken with Mr. Lally or anybody from the DA's office since then, before yesterday?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: You've watched any coverage of this case online?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: No social media?
MR. ALBERT: No, I don't have social media.
MR. JACKSON: No news coverage?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Nightly News? Channel 25? Channel 5?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: National news?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Blogs?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: So literally, according to you, you know zero about the media coverage concerning this case, Commonwealth versus Karen Read?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Did you talk to Allie before her testimony?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: When was the last time you did talk to Allie before she testified?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Give me an idea — she's one of your best friends. A week ago? A day ago? A month ago?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: Could it have been a year ago?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: Could it have been five years ago?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, so more recently than five years ago. Did she --
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: So you have no independent recollection, as you sit here, of the last time you talked to one of your best friends and your cousin about any subject?
MR. ALBERT: No. I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Were you ever told, in preparation for your testimony, if you start to get stumped or nervous, just say "I don't remember"?
MR. ALBERT: Nope. Nobody ever told me that. No.
MR. JACKSON: Sorry -- it's okay. So nobody ever informed you that you might get nervous on the witness stand, there might be tough questions, easiest way to get out of that -- -- is just say "I don't recall"?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: So you just don't recall because your memory is that bad? You literally don't recall the last time you spoke --
JUDGE CANNONE: Objection. Ask that differently, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Sure. Your testimony is you are not instructed to say "I don't remember" -- you just literally don't remember, correct?
MR. ALBERT: It's an issue with my memory, not an instruction that I received. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Right. But you do remember, two and a half years ago, you left 34 Fairview at 12:10 a.m., correct, down to the minute?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Did Mr. Lally, during this meeting that y'all had -- did Mr. Lally show you anything, items of evidence, photographs, videos, anything like that?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did you two -- -- talk about any evidence that you might see -- photographs, documents, videos?
MR. ALBERT: Not that I remember.
MR. JACKSON: He didn't show you the series of text messages between you and Miss McCabe?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So you're not saying he didn't -- you're just saying again you just don't remember, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And this was again -- this was just a month ago?
MR. ALBERT: A month, correct. Could have been sooner than a month.
MR. JACKSON: Let me ask that a different way -- could have been more recently than a month?
MR. ALBERT: I don't -- I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: Don't know that either?
MR. ALBERT: Mm-hmm.
MR. JACKSON: Is that a no? Yeah? No? So, Mr. Albert, you have to answer yes or no, not just "uh." All right?
MR. ALBERT: Sorry.
MR. JACKSON: Where were you when this meeting a month ago took -- -- place?
MR. ALBERT: At the DA's office on Shawmut Road.
MR. JACKSON: Who contacted you to come to the DA's office?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember that.
MR. JACKSON: Don't remember that either? No phone call from Mr. Lally?
MR. ALBERT: Maybe. I don't believe I received a phone call. Maybe my lawyer did, or my father. But I don't know. I don't believe I did.
MR. JACKSON: So if your father received a phone call and then told you you need to go to the DA's office to meet Mr. Lally, that would be a conversation with your dad about your preparation for your testimony, correct?
MR. ALBERT: I wouldn't say so. No.
MR. JACKSON: You would categorize that as such? No? Okay. Because of course, even though you went to the DA's office to meet Mr. Lally and a sergeant -- -- from the Massachusetts State Police to talk about your testimony, you didn't mention that to your dad?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: You mentioned that to your mom?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: And when you got done with that meeting, Dad didn't ask you, "How'd it go, son"?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Your mom didn't say, "How was that meeting?" -- about this massive murder case?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Let me ask it a different way. Do you consider this to be a high-profile murder case?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Don't -- relevance.
MR. JACKSON: In your mind, this is an important case, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Obviously. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: But according to you, it just never comes up in the Albert household?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You were asked to look at a couple of text messages yesterday. It's a little bit like this. You've seen that before?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: When did you see that before yesterday?
MR. ALBERT: Before yesterday?
MR. JACKSON: Had you ever seen that before?
MR. ALBERT: On my phone. Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Other than on your phone when you made the screenshot, did you ever see that before? Did Mr. Lally ever show it to you?
MR. ALBERT: Not that I remember. No.
MR. JACKSON: So you two didn't discuss that in your meeting a month or less ago?
MR. ALBERT: We could have. I don't -- I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: But again, you don't remember. Is that no?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did Mr. Lally tell you why he wanted to question you about those text messages?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Did Mr. Lally tell you anything about what you might be asked on cross-examination?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did he ask you about any videos that you've ever posted --
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: -- any comments you've ever made online?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Any photos you've ever been in?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Any fights you've ever been in?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Who's Courtney Proctor?
MR. ALBERT: She's friendly with my aunt Jillian. I'm sorry -- my aunt Jillian, she's friendly with --
MR. JACKSON: When you say "friendly with," describe that. What do you mean by "friendly with"?
MR. ALBERT: I just -- I know that they're -- they're pretty friendly.
MR. JACKSON: Have you ever been to Courtney Proctor's home?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: How many times would you say, over the years?
MR. ALBERT: Four or five, maybe.
MR. JACKSON: Her family is close to your family -- it's fair to say?
MR. ALBERT: Not -- not that close close, though.
MR. JACKSON: When you say "not that close close though" -- -- what does that mean?
MR. ALBERT: I'd say we're more close when I was younger, not when I got older.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. How old are you now? You're 20, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: I have a photo I'd like to show Mr. Lally first.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at that photo -- tell me if you recognize it. Just look at it to yourself, please. After you've studied it for a second. You recognize the photo?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Who's in that photo?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained as to the content of the photo. Did you want to come to sidebar and explain this to me?
PARENTHETICAL: [Sidebar]
JUDGE CANNONE: -- will answer that question.
MR. ALBERT: Ten years or less ago, I'd say.
MR. JACKSON: You were the ring bearer in Courtney Proctor's wedding, were you not?
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: So when you say we're -- close, rather, but not that close -- you were actually close enough to be a member of her wedding party when she was married to her now husband, correct?
MR. ALBERT: When I was younger. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Well, of course it was when you were younger -- it was ten years ago. Is that yes?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: That's my question. So for at least a decade, your family and the Proctor family has been close enough such that you were in her wedding, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Ask that differently, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: For the last -- well, at least at that time, ten years ago, your family was close enough to the Proctor family such that you were a ring bearer in Courtney Proctor's wedding, right?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And who's Courtney Proctor's brother?
MR. ALBERT: Michael Proctor.
MR. JACKSON: And is Michael Proctor in the photograph that you're looking at?
MR. ALBERT: Yes. Person on the far left. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Looks like he's in a tuxedo, correct?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: You were also in a tuxedo?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: What I'm getting at is, you all were part of the same wedding party, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And that's a photograph of Courtney Proctor's wedding and the entire wedding party, correct?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Is that a photograph of a wedding party? Sustained.
PARENTHETICAL: [Sidebar]
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor, may we approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: -- during the course of this event -- this joyous event at the wedding -- you actually sat at the head table along with the Proctor family because you were given the honor of being a ring bearer in Courtney's wedding, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And you know of course that being in a wedding party is reserved for the most special family members and friends, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: In your mind, was that a special honor?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Is that what you thought when you were little, when you were in that?
MR. ALBERT: I'd say so. Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And you were never interviewed by Canton Police Department in connection with this case, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct. No.
MR. JACKSON: How many times were you interviewed by the Massachusetts State Police in connection with this -- -- case?
MR. ALBERT: Once.
MR. JACKSON: And that was in July of 2023, correct?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember exactly when it was.
MR. JACKSON: About a year and a half after the events in question -- is that right?
MR. ALBERT: Around there. Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Would it refresh your recollection if you saw a copy of a report of that interview, just to get the date?
MR. ALBERT: Sure. Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: May I have just a moment?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at paragraph one. It's in the middle of the paragraph. If you'll just read that to yourself, please.
MR. ALBERT: Got that.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah. You saw the July 18th date?
MR. ALBERT: Yes. 2023. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Does that refresh your recollection that that was the first time you were interviewed by the Massachusetts State Police?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: May I --
JUDGE CANNONE: -- approach. Yes. Thank -- -- you.
MR. JACKSON: Who conducted that interview?
MR. ALBERT: Michael Proctor and one of his partners, I believe. I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Michael Proctor was the lead investigator, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: That's the same Michael Proctor that appears on the far left of the photo of that wedding party, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Did you find that -- that interview, by the way -- how long did that interview last?
MR. ALBERT: Michael Proctor -- I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember testifying at one point that it was about ten minutes?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: You testified at a different hearing -- a different proceeding, not this proceeding -- one other time, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: May I have just a moment?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. May -- yes.
MR. LALLY: I need a foundational question -- coverage concerning this case, Commonwealth versus Karen?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Did you talk to Allie before her testimony?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: When was the last time you did talk to Allie before she testified today?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Give me an idea — she's one of your best friends. A week ago? A day ago? A month ago? I do not remember. Could it have been a year ago?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: Could it have been five years ago?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So more recently than five years ago. Did she —
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: So you have no independent recollection, as you sit here, of the last time you talked to one of your best friends and your cousin about any subject?
MR. ALBERT: No, I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Were you ever told, in preparation for your testimony, if you start to get stumped or nervous, just say "I don't remember"?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Nobody ever told you that?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: No?
MR. ALBERT: Sorry.
MR. JACKSON: It's okay. So nobody ever informed you that you might get nervous on the witness stand, there might be tough questions, and the easiest way to get out of that — — is just to say "I don't recall"?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: So you just don't recall because your memory is that bad? You literally don't recall the last time you spoke —
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Ask that differently, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Sure. Your testimony is you were not instructed to say "I don't remember" — you just literally don't remember. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: It's an issue with your memory, not an instruction that you received. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Right. But you do remember, two and a half years ago, you left 34 Fairview at 12:10 a.m. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Down to the minute?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Did Mr. Lally, during this meeting that y'all had — did Mr. Lally show you anything, items of evidence, photographs, videos, anything like that?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did you two — — talk about any evidence that you might see, photographs, documents, videos?
MR. ALBERT: Not that I remember.
MR. JACKSON: He didn't show you the series of text messages between you and Allie McCabe?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So you're not saying he didn't — you're just saying, again, you just don't remember?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And this was — again, this was just a month ago?
MR. ALBERT: A month. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Could have been sooner than a month? Let me ask that a different way — could it have been more recently than a month?
MR. ALBERT: I don't — I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: Don't know that either?
MR. ALBERT: Mm-mm.
JUDGE CANNONE: Is that no?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah. No.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Albert, you have to answer yes or no, not just "uh."
MR. ALBERT: All right. Sorry.
MR. JACKSON: Where were you when this meeting a month ago took —
MR. ALBERT: — place? At the DA's office, on Shawmut Road.
MR. JACKSON: Who contacted you to come to the DA's office?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember that.
MR. JACKSON: Don't remember that either?
MR. ALBERT: No. A phone call from Mr. Lally? Maybe. I don't believe I received a phone call. Maybe my lawyer did, or my father, but I don't know. I don't believe I did.
MR. JACKSON: So if your father received a phone call and then told you, "You need to go to the DA's office to meet Mr. Lally," that would be a conversation with your dad about your preparation for your testimony, correct?
MR. ALBERT: I wouldn't say so.
MR. JACKSON: No? You would categorize that as such?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Because of course, even though you went to the DA's office to meet Mr. Lally and a sergeant — — from the Massachusetts State Police to talk about your testimony, you didn't mention that to your dad?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't mention that to your mom?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: And when you got done with that meeting, Dad didn't ask you, "How'd it go, son"?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Your mom didn't say, "How was that meeting"?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: About this massive murder case.
JUDGE CANNONE: Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Let me ask it a different way. Do you consider this to be a high-profile murder case?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Don't.
MR. JACKSON: In your mind, this is an important case. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Obviously. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: But according to you, it just never comes up in the Albert household?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You were asked to look at a couple of text messages yesterday. It's a little bit like — — this. You've seen that before?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: When did you see that before?
MR. ALBERT: Yesterday.
MR. JACKSON: Before yesterday, had you ever seen that before?
MR. ALBERT: On my phone. Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Other than on your phone, when you made the screenshot — had you ever seen that before? Did Mr. Lally ever show it to you?
MR. ALBERT: Not that I remember.
MR. JACKSON: No. So you two didn't discuss that in your meeting a month or less ago?
MR. ALBERT: We could have. I don't — I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: But again, you don't remember. Is that no?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did Mr. Lally tell you why he wanted to question you about those text messages?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Did Mr. Lally tell you anything about what you might be asked on cross-examination?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did he ask you about any videos that you've ever posted?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did he ask you about any comments you've ever made online?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Any photos you've ever been in?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Any fights you've ever been in?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Who's Courtney Proctor?
MR. ALBERT: My — she's friendly with my aunt Jillian. I'm sorry — my aunt Jillian, she's friendly with —
MR. JACKSON: When you say "friendly with" — describe that. What do you mean by "friendly with"?
MR. ALBERT: I just — I know that they're — they're pretty friendly.
MR. JACKSON: Have you ever been to Courtney Proctor's home?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: How many times would you say, over the years?
MR. ALBERT: Four or five, maybe.
MR. JACKSON: Her family is close to your family — it's fair to say?
MR. ALBERT: Not — not that close-close, though.
MR. JACKSON: When you say "not that close-close, though" — — what does that mean?
MR. ALBERT: I'd say we're more close when I was younger, not when I got older.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. How old are you now? You're 20, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: I have a photo I'd like to show Mr. Lally first.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at that photo. Tell me if you recognize it. Just look at it to yourself, please. Let me know after you've studied it for a second.
MR. ALBERT: Yep.
MR. JACKSON: You recognize the photo?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
PARENTHETICAL: [Sidebar — inaudible]
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Who's in that photo?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained as to the content of the photo. Did you want to come to sidebar and explain this to me?
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Albert, when was that photograph taken?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: We can get that, but — The witness will answer that question.
MR. ALBERT: Ten years or less ago, I'd say. I don't —
MR. JACKSON: You were the ring bearer in Courtney Proctor's wedding, were you not?
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Ask that differently, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: For the last — well, at least at that time, 10 years ago, your family was close enough to the Proctor family such that you were a ring bearer in Courtney Proctor's wedding, right?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And who's Courtney Proctor's brother?
MR. ALBERT: Michael Proctor.
MR. JACKSON: And is Michael Proctor in the photograph that you're looking at?
MR. ALBERT: Yes. Person on the far left.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. Looks like he's in a tuxedo. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You were also in a tuxedo —
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: What I'm getting at is, you all were part of the same wedding party, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And that's a photograph of Courtney Proctor's wedding and the entire wedding party, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
PARENTHETICAL: [Sidebar — inaudible]
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Is that a photograph of a wedding party?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. You're —
MR. JACKSON: May we approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Robert, I want you to look at that one more time. Both you and Michael Proctor are depicted in the photograph, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: How long have you known Michael Proctor?
MR. ALBERT: Since I was a little kid.
MR. JACKSON: And you've known him well enough to know — I don't want you to tell me, or tell the jurors — but you know where he lives?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: You consider the Proctor family close to your family?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: During the course of — for instance, just as an example — during the course of this event, this joyous event, at the — — wedding, you actually sat at the head table along with the Proctor family, because you were given the honor of being a ring bearer in Courtney's wedding, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And you know, of course, that being in a wedding party is reserved for the most special family members and friends, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: In your mind, was that a special honor?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
MR. JACKSON: Is that what you thought when you were little, when you were in that?
MR. ALBERT: I'd say so, yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And you were never interviewed by the Canton Police Department in connection with this case, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: How many times were you interviewed by the Massachusetts State Police in connection with this —
MR. ALBERT: Once.
MR. JACKSON: And that was in July of 2023, correct?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember exactly when.
MR. JACKSON: It was about a year and a half after the events in question — is that right?
MR. ALBERT: Around there. Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Would it refresh your recollection if you saw a copy of a report of that interview, just to get the date?
MR. ALBERT: Sure. Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I may have just a moment.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at paragraph one — it's in the middle of the paragraph — if you'll just read that to yourself, please.
MR. ALBERT: Got that.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah? You saw the July 18th date?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: 2023?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Does that refresh your recollection that that was the first time you were interviewed by the Massachusetts State Police?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: May I — — approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Thank — — you.
MR. JACKSON: Who conducted that interview?
MR. ALBERT: Michael Proctor and one of his partners, I believe. I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Michael Proctor was the lead investigator, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: That's the same Michael Proctor that appears on the far left of the photo of that wedding party, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: By the way, how long did that interview last?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember testifying at one point that it was about 10 minutes?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: You testified at a different hearing, a different proceeding — not this proceeding — one other time, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: I may have just a moment.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: May — yes. I need a foundational question. First, I apologize — it's my fault. Mr. Albert, do you believe that would refresh your recollection as to the length of that first interview, if you were to see your testimony from a prior proceeding?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at this, and I'm going to direct your attention to line 18 and 19 of that transcript. Let me know when you're done.
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah. May I?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Does that refresh your recollection?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: How long was that interview?
MR. ALBERT: Which interview are you —
MR. JACKSON: The interview that you had with Michael Proctor. That's what that question was about. You just read it.
MR. ALBERT: I still don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: You recall that it says you testified —
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Where his memory is not refreshed, you can do this — — differently. You know that.
MR. JACKSON: Did this refresh your recollection as to the question and answer — how you answered the question — how long that interview lasted?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Did you say 10 minutes?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So during the course of that 10-minute conversation that you had with Michael Proctor, what was the tone of that interview? You understand what I mean by tone?
MR. ALBERT: I do not understand.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Was it hostile and accusatory?
MR. ALBERT: Not that I remember, no.
MR. JACKSON: Was it antagonistic or confrontational?
MR. ALBERT: Can you use different words, please?
MR. JACKSON: Sure. Was he being mean?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. He was being nice, right?
MR. ALBERT: Professional, I'd say.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah. You've known him almost your whole life, right?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: He was friendly, cordial?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And the interview was comfortable?
MR. ALBERT: Say it again?
MR. JACKSON: The interview was comfortable.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't feel like you were on the hot seat?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did you find that the interview with Michael Proctor was consistent with the relationship that you've had with him your whole life — meaning he's always been friendly to you, he was just as friendly in that conversation?
MR. ALBERT: Not really, no.
MR. JACKSON: How is he different?
MR. ALBERT: I'd say more professional.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Obviously he was doing a job.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. But when you walked in, you recognized him?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: He recognized you?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Made natural greetings with one another?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. Questioned you about a — — few things.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: He didn't look at your phone, he didn't ask to take your phone away from you?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: He didn't ask to seize your phone or seize any other physical items from you?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: You weren't asked to come down to the police station and sit in an interview room or an interrogation room, were you?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Matter of fact, where did the conversation take place — those 10 minutes?
MR. ALBERT: In the DA's office on Shawmut Road.
MR. JACKSON: DA's office on Shawmut Road. Who else was there, other than Trooper Proctor and his partner at the time, Trooper Clark?
MR. ALBERT: Can you — who else was there? Was it just Trooper Proctor, Michael Proctor and Clark?
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Okay. So it was just the three —
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And Trooper Proctor was the one that was sort of leading the conversation?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And when it was done, he said you're free to go.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And he didn't take your phone.
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: He didn't ask you to look at any text messages?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
PARENTHETICAL: [Gap — approx. 5 minutes; probable sidebar and photo exhibit review]
MR. JACKSON: May I inquire?
MR. JACKSON: He didn't look through your phone?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: He didn't take any screenshots or videos of your phone or the contents of your phone?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Just let you walk out the door.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor, may I publish the photo? Why don't you come over here for just one second — you have that, please?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Mr. Albert, I want to shift gears for a quick second. On July 27th, you and your attorney appeared at a hearing in a separate proceeding.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: I don't — let me ask it a different way. You testified at a different proceeding, not this trial, but a different proceeding.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You were put under oath, you appeared with your lawyer, you gave testimony — and that's part of what you looked at a second ago.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. But when you met with Michael Proctor, you did not feel the need to take an attorney with you — it was just you, Michael Proctor, and Investigator Clark.
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: You were asked yesterday about certain texts with your cousin Allie.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. Allie is obviously family.
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: But she's more than family — — she's also a good friend of yours.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: As a matter of fact, she's one of your best friends.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And at your age — this is not meant to be impolite — but we're different generations. At your age, your most convenient way of communicating is through text messages.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. I mean, if you're going to grab a buddy, say let's meet at the such-and-such ball field or whatever, you're going to text them — probably not call them?
MR. ALBERT: Either or.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. But texting is pretty common between you and your friends?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Texting is certainly common between you and Allie — we've already seen evidence of that, right?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And that's generally how you like to communicate with Allie?
MR. ALBERT: I'd say so, yeah.
MR. JACKSON: In fact, when you reached out to her for a ride, there were like eight text messages back and forth just for a pickup.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor, may I have a copy of Exhibit 81? I just want you to have that in front of you. Your Honor, with the court's permission, please place Exhibit 81 on the screen.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Approach.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Is there an objection to that?
MR. LALLY: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: You're all right.
MR. JACKSON: May I have that back? I thought you meant approach over here.
JUDGE CANNONE: Do you want the Commonwealth to pull it up, Mr. Jackson? We'd be happy to.
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor, it's fine — yeah, that'd be great. Thank you, Miss Gilman.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You see what's displayed on the screen?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: It's only part of the text string, but does that look like an accurate representation of what you're looking at?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And this is a series of texts, Your Honor, about January 28th and 29th of 2022. Is that right?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And Mr. Albert, you needed something as simple as a ride — you were just asking Allie to give you a ride. Is that right?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And it's because you said it's common for you guys to text back and forth — you just texted her "hey, you can get me now." Is that right?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And then you texted "if it's easier," and then she said "okay, I'm dropping people off," and there was an exchange back and forth. Is that right?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: And there were at least eight texts between the two of you, if you just count them up real quick, just about getting picked up?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: But if you scroll down a little bit — after the end of that text train that ends at 12:10 a.m. and says "okay" — you see the next date?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What date is that?
MR. ALBERT: February 20th.
MR. JACKSON: That's nearly a month later.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. So there was a gap after January 29th, 2022 — when you found out that a man had — — ended up dead on your uncle's lawn — and you and Allie did not text each other for a month, not once.
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained as to that form. Ask it differently.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true that on January 29th, later in the day, you found out about John O'Keefe and his condition — that he had —
MR. LALLY: Objection.
MR. JACKSON: Is that true? Did you find out that day?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So you were well aware — thank you, we can take that down. You were well aware, Mr. Albert, that something very tragic had happened at your uncle's house — Brian Albert's house?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And you were aware that you had been at your uncle's house that night?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You're also aware that, according to you, McCabe was the one that picked you up and took you from that location?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And notwithstanding the fact of this tragedy, you and Allie didn't text each other one time for a month. Is that right?
MR. ALBERT: I don't think that's correct.
MR. JACKSON: So where are those texts?
MR. ALBERT: We text on other platforms too — I'd say other apps.
MR. JACKSON: So is there a reason why you decided for the next month to just switch platforms — to maybe Snapchat?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MR. ALBERT: No reason.
MR. JACKSON: Are you sure that you switched platforms?
MR. ALBERT: I'd say so, yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Why did you switch platforms?
MR. ALBERT: We go back and forth, I'd say, between platforms — texting.
MR. JACKSON: You switched platforms because you know that Snapchat deletes all communications.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Ask it differently, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Do you know that Snapchat has an auto-delete function on it, if your app is set to that?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Your app was set to that, was it?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember that.
MR. JACKSON: So again, your memory is failing —
MR. ALBERT: Can you rephrase that?
MR. JACKSON: Sure. Once again, your memory is failing — you don't remember?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Ask it differently, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true, Mr. Albert, that you either switched platforms or deleted the texts because you did not want your text communications with Allie McCabe to be discovered?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Overruled.
MR. JACKSON: Is that right?
MR. ALBERT: That's not true.
MR. JACKSON: So where are those communications?
MR. ALBERT: I do not know.
MR. JACKSON: Can't produce them right now, can you?
MR. ALBERT: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: So in the days — hours and days and weeks — following the death of John O'Keefe, your communications with your best friend Allie, the person who gave you a ride home that night — they're just gone?
MR. ALBERT: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: You testified that you provided Exhibit 81 — what we were just looking at, and you're still looking at in front of you — as a screenshot of your communications on January 29th, 2022, with Allie McCabe.
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: It was a screenshot?
MR. ALBERT: Say that again, sorry.
MR. JACKSON: You provided that item as a screenshot, not as an actual text, to law enforcement. Is that right?
MR. ALBERT: I don't — I don't believe so.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Do you know what a screenshot is?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What's a screenshot?
MR. ALBERT: When you take a picture on your phone — that's a picture from your phone.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Okay. So it is a screenshot?
MR. ALBERT: Yes, it is a screenshot.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. That's my question. When you met with Michael Proctor in that interview that lasted 10 minutes, Michael Proctor did not get the actual texts underlying that screenshot, did he?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: He never looked for those actual texts, did he?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: He never asked you for those actual texts, did he?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: And you never volunteered to give him those actual texts, did you?
MR. ALBERT: I think — I think I volunteered to, yeah.
MR. JACKSON: On that day?
MR. ALBERT: Oh, no — not on that day.
MR. JACKSON: No, not on that day. You know what a phone extraction is?
MR. ALBERT: Not familiar.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Have you ever — ...heard of phone imaging, or a phone extraction, or a forensic extraction — any of those words sound familiar?
MR. ALBERT: Not really, no.
MR. JACKSON: Michael Proctor never asked you — I think it's fair to say, given that answer — Michael Proctor never asked you if he could do a phone extraction of your cell phone, did he?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: He never asked if he could take a forensic image of your phone, did he?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Do you know what metadata is?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: You know the dates and times you take a photo on your phone — not sometimes, all the time — it'll capture the date and time of the photo. You know that?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll hear this answer, and it may end your inquiry. Do you know that?
MR. ALBERT: Pretty sure. Pretty sure I do, yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Have you ever heard of that data — those dates and times and geolocations — have you ever heard of that referred to as metadata?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So I'll just use the word "date and time." You know that on your phone, if you pull up a text, you can go behind the text and see the date and time that it was actually sent or received, right?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: But on a screenshot you're left with just what's on the screen — can't go behind the screenshot, right?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You provided just the screenshot ultimately — not the actual texts. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: But in September of 2023, Michael Proctor's partner — a man by the name of Yuri Bukhenik — you know that name?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: He contacted you and said he wanted to talk about your text messages. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember that you told Yuri Bukhenik, when he asked about the text messages, you did not have the screenshot anymore — you sent it to your father Chris?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember that.
MR. JACKSON: Do you recall telling Bukhenik that if he wanted to get the screenshot, you weren't going to give it to him — he'd have to get it from your dad?
MR. ALBERT: Do not remember that.
MR. JACKSON: You remember Trooper Bukhenik agreeing with you and saying "Sure, I'll just call your dad and get it from him"?
MR. ALBERT: Don't remember that.
MR. JACKSON: You don't remember giving — You certainly don't remember ever giving Trooper Bukhenik a copy of that screenshot?
MR. ALBERT: No, I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Because you didn't, did you?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: But you did give it to your dad, right?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember anything about this case?
JUDGE CANNONE: Jackson, you're on it.
MR. JACKSON: To this day, you've never been required to present your phone to any law enforcement agent, have you?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: It was never imaged, it was never downloaded?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: You still have the same phone?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: If you had the actual texts on your phone, why did you provide law enforcement with just a screenshot?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MR. ALBERT: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: You were shown a photo yesterday of you in February of 2022 with your aunt. Remember that photo? ADA Lally showed you that photo. Correct?
PARENTHETICAL: [sidebar audio artifacts]
JUDGE CANNONE: So you're putting it in evidence before you display it?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And he said he wanted you to pay special attention to your face and hands and extremities — asked you if there's anything unusual about that?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You said no — in that photo, absolutely nothing unusual in February 2022 about you, your face, your hands, your fists. Nothing, right?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: I want to draw your attention to February 26th — same month, less than a month after the incident. You were at a place called Fenway Johnny's with your buddies, weren't you?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: I have two documents I'd like to mark for identification. [Exhibit marking — crosstalk] Okay. Thank you. Present these to the — yes. May we approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: I may as well see them. I'll end up seeing them.
MR. JACKSON: One more time? proceeding continues Yes, sir. Do you recognize those two documents?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Taking a look at the one that's got multiple documents on it — I don't want you to tell me what's on it, just tell me if you recognize the picture that's in the middle to the right.
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And then looking at the second document, which I believe is marked E for identification at this point — does that appear to be a true and accurate enlargement of the first thumbnail?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And those were taken on — That photo was taken on February 26, 2022?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: At the place called — I think it's called Fenway Johnny's?
MR. ALBERT: Right. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. May I publish?
JUDGE CANNONE: Put it into evidence first.
MR. JACKSON: Move for the admission of — just E?
JUDGE CANNONE: You need to get it to the court reporter.
MR. JACKSON: May I — I'm sorry, just FF.
JUDGE CANNONE: May I approach? Yes. E or FF? FF. Okay. Give it to Madam Court Reporter to put the exhibit number on it.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. You see that photograph being displayed?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Are you in that photograph?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Which person are you?
MR. ALBERT: In the middle.
MR. JACKSON: And about what time of day was it?
MR. ALBERT: Not sure.
MR. JACKSON: That's you in the middle. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: About what time of day was it?
MR. ALBERT: Not sure.
MR. JACKSON: Was it at an event of some sort, or just you at a bar?
MR. ALBERT: Just at a bar.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I want you to take a look at your right hand. Can you see from there clearly — your right hand?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What do you notice about your right hand?
MR. ALBERT: It's cut up.
MR. JACKSON: Your knuckles are injured. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Now you didn't take this photo, did you?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: That photo was never on your phone — in other words, it wasn't a friend of yours that took the photo. This was taken by an event staff member, is that right?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: It was later posted on social media, isn't that right?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You could not access the metadata — you couldn't access the time and date of that photo. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Not sure what you mean by that.
MR. JACKSON: You couldn't manipulate the time or date this photo was taken?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: This photo was completely out of your control, isn't that right?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And it was controlled by the event staff at Fenway Johnny's. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And on February 26th, less than a month after the incident at Fairview, that's what your right knuckles look like. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And this is a true and accurate depiction of your condition on or about February 26th. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: How'd you get those injuries?
MR. ALBERT: I was at a party — a house party, my senior year — and I remember it being icy out, and it was like a steep hill of a driveway, and I was walking up the driveway and I slipped, and I tried to catch myself, but I had something in my left hand, so I tried to brace myself with my right hand and I ended up sliding a little bit down the driveway.
MR. JACKSON: What did you have in your left hand?
MR. ALBERT: If I remember, it was either my phone or a beverage.
MR. JACKSON: So according to you, you fell on ice and injured your knuckles — as we just saw in that photograph — right across the top of your knuckles. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: So you fell onto — what — pavement? Asphalt?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you braced yourself when you fell — your entire body weight — by putting your right hand down in a fist, and you injured your right fist, just the top of the knuckles on your right fist, when you fell down. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Seriously?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: You put your palms down?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: [unintelligible] — your entire body on your right fist — and just injured the top?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Those injuries to your knuckles look an awful lot like [unintelligible] injuries that you would get [unintelligible]. You ever been in a fight, sir?
MR. ALBERT: Other than with my brothers, no.
MR. JACKSON: You've never been in a fight?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Your entire life — other than with your brothers?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: Never hurt your knuckles before?
MR. ALBERT: Not sure what you mean.
MR. JACKSON: Never hurt your knuckles in a fight?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: And in this case, when you fell down on the asphalt, it was only the top four knuckles of your right hand. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Right-handed or left-handed?
MR. ALBERT: Right-handed.
MR. JACKSON: Box?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: I'm sorry — you don't box?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: You've never boxed?
MR. ALBERT: Never.
MR. JACKSON: You haven't practiced boxing?
MR. ALBERT: I've hit the bag for cardio, but other than that, no.
MR. JACKSON: When you hit the bag — is that considered boxing?
MR. ALBERT: I wouldn't say so.
MR. JACKSON: It's not jump rope, is it, Mr. Albert?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: It's not doing curls?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Not doing push-ups or calisthenics?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: It's hitting a bag. Correct?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: That's boxing, right?
MR. ALBERT: I'd say yeah.
MR. JACKSON: When that photograph was taken at Fenway Johnny's, those knuckles look like they had been reinjured from a prior injury?
MR. ALBERT: No. No. Just falling on the asphalt. Correct.
PARENTHETICAL: [sidebar audio artifacts]
JUDGE CANNONE: So I'm going to send you out for a recess. We have some work to do here. It wasn't early enough for me to get you coffee and bagels — I apologize for that — but it'll be a little bit. So we'll send you out for the morning recess.
MR. JACKSON: Any other cuts or scrapes from that terrible fall on the asphalt?
JUDGE CANNONE: Jackson, you're on it.
MR. JACKSON: I'll rephrase it. Any other cuts or scrapes or injuries from that fall?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Just your right knuckles?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: You said you've never been in a fight before?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: Did you post a video? You threatened that you're going to —
MR. LALLY: Objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Objection sustained. I'll see you at sidebar on this. I'm familiar with this.
COURT OFFICER: Eyes to the court, please. Follow me.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So, Mr. Albert, you stay right where you are. We're going to see a couple of short videos, and then Mr. Jackson will ask you questions and then Mr. Lally will ask you questions. Then I'll hear from the lawyers, and then I'll take a break, and you'll get a break before we go back. Okay?
MR. ALBERT: Okay.
JUDGE CANNONE: Did you have a lawyer present?
MR. ALBERT: No, I do not.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So the first one — are they both on the same? They're separate. Separated. All right. So let's mark them each for identification. The one I'm holding in my right hand — I'll call [unintelligible] — thank you. [unintelligible]. The one in my left hand, with the Court's permission — this is — I'll call — I'll call this Bang Bang. All right, thank you. All right, so play GG first, please. [exhibit gg plays]: I will beat all your asses. I promise you, I will. You all pull up. Okay, and the next one please.
MR. JACKSON: May I inquire, your Honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I'm going to take those two videos one at a time. I'm going to call one the Advantage voice and one the Bang Bang, for purposes of my questioning. Mr. Albert, specifically as to the Advantage voice video — did you recognize it?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: How did you recognize it?
MR. ALBERT: What do you — what do you mean by that? How do you recognize it?
MR. JACKSON: Is that you?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. When was that taken?
MR. ALBERT: Maybe my sophomore year in high school, around —
MR. JACKSON: Where were you?
MR. ALBERT: I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Your sophomore year in high school — that's about 3 or 4 years ago?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah, around — around —
MR. JACKSON: You indicated on cross-examination you've never been in a fight —
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: — indicating that you're — you have no violent tendencies and no violent compulsions, right?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: What were you saying on that video? That you would beat them up? Did you say you would beat them up, or did you say "I will [expletive] you up"?
MR. ALBERT: I said "I will [expletive] you up."
MR. JACKSON: No, you didn't say "I will [expletive] you up." What did you actually say?
MR. ALBERT: That I would [expletive] them up.
MR. JACKSON: You also said something about beating somebody's ass, right?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: What did that mean?
MR. ALBERT: That I would beat them up.
MR. JACKSON: So when you said "I will [expletive] you up" and "I will beat your ass" — was that a friendly invitation?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: That was a threat, correct?
MR. ALBERT: I don't know if I would call it a threat. I'm not sure. Someone walks up to you — I'm not going to do it, but someone did walk up to you and said "I will [expletive] you up, I will beat your ass" — you wouldn't take that as a threat? If they walked up to me? Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Ah, but if they didn't walk up — just shouted across the street and stood there and said "I will [expletive] you up, I will beat your ass" — that's not a threat?
MR. ALBERT: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah, I think you are sure, sir. All right. I'll strike that. Were you threatening these Advantage boys — guys, whatever they are?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah, kind of.
MR. JACKSON: Were you threatening them with violence?
MR. ALBERT: Kind of. Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: In the second video, you said "[expletive]" a number of times, and then you said "KO," you said "pull up," "KO," "bang bang," right?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Explain that to me.
MR. ALBERT: Not sure. Like, explain what I said? Is that a threat?
MR. JACKSON: Yeah — "pull up," right?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Who are you talking to?
MR. ALBERT: Those same Advantage kids.
PARENTHETICAL: [court officer]
MR. JACKSON: : Of course. When was the second one — the Bang Bang threat — made? Before or after the Advantage voice?
MR. JACKSON: Got it. So you're threatening them yet again — a second time?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: What does "pull up" mean?
MR. ALBERT: Like, come by.
MR. JACKSON: Meaning get over here?
MR. ALBERT: Mm-hmm. Right. Yep.
MR. JACKSON: Because when you do, I'm going to [expletive] you up, right?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Meaning I'm going to fight you and I'm going to put you down, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: That was your threat to them, correct?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Can we get a time on this second one?
MR. ALBERT: I'm not sure. After? Might have been the same night. I really don't know. Well —
MR. JACKSON: — you're just completely different, so it's probably not the same night — you would agree with that?
MR. ALBERT: Unless I — I could have changed my shirt. I do that often.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So you changed your shirt, and on the same night you just decided to threaten the guys twice — is that what you're saying?
MR. ALBERT: Maybe. Not sure. I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: Was it around the same time frame?
MR. ALBERT: Around. Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: All right. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Albert, you do like to fight, don't you?
MR. ALBERT: Nope.
MR. JACKSON: The fact of the matter is, you showed up at another hearing — at another proceeding — to testify, and you showed up with busted knuckles then too, didn't you?
MR. ALBERT: I do not remember.
MR. JACKSON: July 27th, 2023 — do you remember being at another hearing?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You remember being questioned by some attorneys?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You remember the question about the condition of your fist, literally at the hearing?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: It was obvious to the person that was questioning you that you had an injury to your fist, correct?
MR. LALLY: Objection. That — that's a —
MR. JACKSON: I'll rephrase that. My apologies, your Honor. You were asked questions by the questioner about the condition — the physical condition — of your fist, weren't you?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And you claimed at that time — well, let me back up for a second. Ask a different question. They were asking because you had open injuries on your right knuckles yet again, didn't you?
MR. ALBERT: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You said "I must have been hitting a heavy bag," right?
MR. ALBERT: Yeah. Boxing again — hitting the bag.
MR. JACKSON: Just working out, right?
MR. ALBERT: Yep.
MR. JACKSON: Didn't have any injuries on your left hand, though, did you?
MR. ALBERT: No.
MR. JACKSON: How many times have you hit a heavy bag?
MR. ALBERT: Not sure.
MR. JACKSON: How many times have you worked out with a heavy bag?
MR. ALBERT: That's an unfair question.
MR. JACKSON: I'll ask that better. How many times have you worked out on a heavy bag?
MR. ALBERT: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: When you work out on a heavy bag, you wrap your hands, don't you?
MR. ALBERT: I do not know.
MR. JACKSON: I see. So only your right hand gets injured over and over and over and over again — not your left hand.
MR. ALBERT: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: Even though you're punching the bag with both hands.
MR. ALBERT: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: Yet again. You're right-handed, aren't you?
MR. ALBERT: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So when you throw a haymaker — your hardest punch — that's with your right fist, right?
MR. LALLY: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MR. ALBERT: That right? I would say they — they have equal — they're equal. I don't know. Not sure.