Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveJennifer McCabe - Cross (Part 2)
1,666 linesCOURT CLERK: Good morning, please. For the record, before the court is Commonwealth versus Karen Read, 22CR17. The parties are present. The jury is not present. The matter is on for trial. So, I was told that you wanted to see me, Miss Eddie?. Yes, please. Okay. Come on up to sidebar, folks. All right, let's bring the jurors in. And actually, I'll see you about scheduling while we're here. I forgot — — something. I do. Thank you, Chrissy. So, good. Did you see this? And then I'll take it back whenever. Tori. Oh. — the jury. Don't worry. Next call.
COURT CLERK: Hear ye, all persons having any business before the honorable Beverly Cannone, justice of the Norfolk Superior Court and for the county of Norfolk, draw near, give your attention, and you shall be heard. God save the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The court is now open. You may be seated.
JUDGE CANNONE: For the record, before the court is Commonwealth versus Karen Read, 22 CR117. The parties are present. Our 18 jurors are present. The matter is on for trial.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Good morning again, counsel. Good morning again. Good morning, jurors. Good morning. I have to ask you those three questions. Was everyone able to follow my instructions and refrain from discussing this case with — — anyone since we left two days ago? Everyone said yes and nodded affirmatively. Were you also able to follow the instructions and refrain from doing any independent research or investigation into this case? Everyone said yes and nodded affirmatively. Did anyone happen to see, hear, or read anything about this case since we last met on Wednesday? Everyone said no and nodded. So today is a full day.
JUDGE CANNONE: We will be recessing this afternoon around 3:40, 3:45. All right. Mr. Jackson, if you go to the podium as soon as Miss McCabe comes in. We have Miss McCabe. I like this. Whatever you want.
COURT CLERK: I solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give to the court and the jury in the matter now pending shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Good morning.
MS. MCCABE: Morning.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, Mr. Jackson, whenever you're ready.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning, Miss McCabe.
MS. MCCABE: Morning.
MR. JACKSON: I'd like to draw your attention back to the time that you were watching the SUV out of the front door — through the front door at 34 Fair—. Do you have that time in mind?
MS. MCCABE: I never watched it, but I went and looked at it. Saw it. Sorry. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: All right. I just want to clear up one of the time frames that you — — indicated you last saw that SUV. You saw that SUV for the final time at 12:45 a.m. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: It was up past the flagpole at that point. I can't be sure of a specific time.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated at a prior hearing in June of 2023 that you in fact did see it for the last time at 12:45. And you know that because of a text message that you sent at 12:45. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I did send a text message at 12:45. That is correct.
MR. JACKSON: Did you say, quote— And by the way, for court and counsel, this is at page 782 lines 24 through 25 going to page 783 lines 1 through 13 or so. Actually, 1 through 3. It's 782 going to 783. May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. ?. Sorry. Thank you very much.
PARENTHETICAL: [unidentified]
MR. JACKSON: : No problem. Actually — — Miss McCabe, and for court and counsel, I'm going to back up just a little bit to line 20. You stated, quote, "So, I think my husband and I were talking just like about what they were doing and then I sat back down and then at one point I think I said hello and then I said at 12:42, 'Where are you?' And then — I don't know if that's my last text or if I did one more. Yeah, 12:45. Hello. Because they were still there." And then question: "So, the dark SUV was still outside the house at 12:45." Answer: "At 12:45." Do you remember that question and answer from back in June 2023?
MS. MCCABE: I've — — been asked a number of questions. Specifically those words, no. I do remember testifying. I believe I said "I think" in there. And to be honest, I'm not sure of exactly the times. I didn't pay close attention to when I was texting and when I was sitting, I was going back and forth to the door.
MR. JACKSON: But in June of 2023 at a hearing under oath, you did say that it was at 12:45 that you last saw the vehicle.
MS. MCCABE: I believe I said "I think" — [unintelligible]. Take a look at the transcript. I believe the word "I think" is in there.
MR. JACKSON: You believe, but I'm not sure.
MS. MCCABE: Okay, I'll look at it. Sure.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Okay. May I approach? Yes. Thank you. Does that refresh your recollection what you said in June of 2023 about seeing the SUV at the location at 12:45?
MS. MCCABE: I see what I— I read. Sorry, I saw what I just read. I don't remember my exact words of every testimony, but I did just read that. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And in fact, what you said back in June of 2023, quote, "I don't know if it's my last text or if I did one more. Yeah. 12:45. Hello. Because they were still there." Period. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: That's a part of what I said.
MR. JACKSON: And then the question was, "So the dark SUV was still outside the house at 12:45?" Answer: "At 12:45." And then I said I think my husband and I—
MS. MCCABE: —so there's more to that conversation.
MR. JACKSON: What I read you is what the transcript indicates you said on June 8th, 2023. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Can you ask the question again?
MR. JACKSON: Sure. That what you testified to in June of 2023 was you saw the SUV for the last time at— That's what you said at least back then.
MS. MCCABE: That's part of what I said. "I don't know if that's my last text or if I did one more. Yeah. 12:45. Hello. Because they were still there." Question: "So, the dark SUV was still outside the house at 12:45?" The answer: "At 12:45." That's what you actually testified to in June 2023. That's what that says, correct? Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: You've been asked about with whom you communicated first thing in the morning when you received that 4:53 a.m. call — that call and shortly thereafter within those next few minutes. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: As a matter of fact, you were asked by Trooper Prince in a formal interview on February 1st, 2022. I know that was a while ago, but in that initial formal interview 3 days after the event, Trooper Prince, the female trooper, asked you who you called or who you communicated with during that important few minutes after you received the first phone call from Kaylee's phone. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure of our exact conversation, but she did ask me a number of questions.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember telling her, "I spoke with Karen Read?"
MS. MCCABE: Obviously, again, I answered whatever question she asked me. So, she asked — I did speak with Karen Read that morning. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Ms. McCabe, my question is, did you tell Trooper Prince 3 days after the fact, "I spoke with Karen Read?" Yes or no?
MS. MCCABE: If you have a report, I don't remember the specifics. I met with many, many police officers.
MR. JACKSON: Sure. Would it refresh your recollection to take a look at her report?
MS. MCCABE: I'd like to take a look at it. Yes. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Thank you very much.
JUDGE CANNONE: You're welcome.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Ms. McCabe, you can familiarize yourself with that report and there's a tab if that helps you because it's somewhat lengthy. See if that refreshes your recollection.
MS. MCCABE: Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. May I approach?
MR. JACKSON: Ms. McCabe, did that refresh your recollection as to what you told Trooper Prince?
MS. MCCABE: I know what happened, so I just answered the questions.
MR. JACKSON: Yes or no? Does that refresh your recollection as to what you told Trooper Prince?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You told Trooper Prince that you had a conversation on Kaylee's phone with Miss Read, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That you also called Julie Albert after you got off the phone with Miss Read the first time?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And then thereafter at some point you talked to Tom Bey. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: I never spoke with Tom.
MR. JACKSON: I'm sorry, my mistake. I misspoke. You called Tom Bey.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I called Tom Bey. Did not get through to Tom Bey.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't?
MS. MCCABE: No one answered.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Okay. Then you spoke to the grand jury about the same issue — who did you talk to and who did you call in those minutes after the initial call on Kaylee's phone. Correct?
MR. BRENNAN: I'm going to— I'd like to be heard.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Come on up.
MR. JACKSON: May I, your honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Ms. McCabe, you were also asked the same series of questions — or a series of questions about the same events concerning that 4:53 phone call and the calls that you made shortly thereafter. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. And in that testimony, you also — consistent with what you said to Trooper Prince — said, "I spoke with Karen Read on Kaylee's phone. I then spoke with Julie Albert," or "I called Julie Albert and I called Tom Bey." Correct?
MR. BRENNAN: I object.
JUDGE CANNONE: Objection sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Did you— what did you tell the grand jurors about who you called or who you attempted to communicate with in those first few minutes after that 4:53 a.m. call?
MS. MCCABE: I don't know exactly what I said on that day, but I know who I spoke to.
MR. JACKSON: You said on that day you spoke to Karen Read, correct?
MS. MCCABE: On which day? What are we talking about?
MR. JACKSON: The day of the grand jury.
MS. MCCABE: Okay. That would be April 26, 2022. I don't have the paper in front of me, so I don't know my exact words.
MR. JACKSON: Well, I'm not asking you for your exact words, but did you — as you sit here, do you remember telling the grand jurors under questioning by the Commonwealth that you spoke with Karen Read?
MS. MCCABE: I spoke with Karen Read that morning. Again, I don't— I've been at many grand juries and different things, so to remember specifically — I don't remember specific questions and specific answers, but yes, Karen Read did call me that morning on Kaylee's phone.
MR. JACKSON: My question is, what did you say to the grand jurors? And you're saying you don't remember?
MS. MCCABE: What question are you asking me? Who—
MR. JACKSON: Whom did you attempt to communicate with in those first few minutes after you first received the phone call on Kaylee's phone?
MS. MCCABE: If you're asking me now, I can answer you. I don't remember the— I'm sorry. I don't remember the specifics. If you want to show me, then I can review it. I know the answer to the question. I'm just not sure of my exact words on that day.
MR. JACKSON: I didn't ask you what your exact words were. I'm asking you about your memory. You're testifying based on your memory, Ms. McCabe, are you not?
MR. BRENNAN: Object.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Go ahead and answer that question. Are you answering these questions based on your memory, Ms. McCabe?
MS. MCCABE: So, I'm answering questions based on my memory of what happened on the 28th and the 29th. I've testified multiple times. I've been interviewed by multiple police officers, so to pinpoint one conversation is a bit of a challenge for me. But what I can tell you is what I remember from that day, which was — I'm sure — very similar to however I answered, because it's the same.
MR. JACKSON: [unintelligible — requesting to show transcript] Sure. 188, 189. Thank you. Thank you. I didn't get an answer to that question. Ms. McCabe, would it refresh your recollection to look at a transcript?
MS. MCCABE: I'm going — I'll look at it.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Okay. May I approach? Yes. Thank you. Did that refresh your recollection about what you told the grand jurors in terms of whom you communicated with or attempted to communicate with that morning?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What did you tell the grand jurors?
MS. MCCABE: I told them that I communicated with Miss Read and that I called Julie Albert and Tom Bey. Oh, and Tom Bey — I'm sorry. Right.
MR. JACKSON: So, in both of those statements — to Trooper Prince, when you were asked about your communications, and at the grand jury — by the way, at the grand jury, when you were asked who you communicated with that morning, you didn't need to see a report, did you? You didn't ask to see a report like you're doing here.
MS. MCCABE: Well, I'm asking because you're asking specific questions about what I said on a specific day. And depending on who's asking the question, they ask questions in a different manner. So the answer is always going to be the same. If you ask me who I spoke to, I'm always going to tell you I spoke to Miss Read and Julie. I called Julie Albert and I called Tom Bey. The answer is always the same. But the way the question is asked, and maybe some of the words that I use, may be different — and I don't remember on specific days. I've been questioned many times, but the answers are always going to be the same. The wording may be different. Does that answer?
MR. JACKSON: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay, I'm going to allow that, but let's move on.
MR. JACKSON: When the Commonwealth asked questions about who you contacted at the grand jury, you didn't need to have your recollection refreshed with anything. You said, "I talked to Karen Read. I called Julie Albert. I called Tom Bey." Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And that's exactly what you told Trooper Prince as well — Karen Read, Julie Albert, Tom Bey. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: But you did make another phone call that morning that you left out of both of those statements, didn't you?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: At 5:07 a.m., you called over to 34 Fairview, didn't you?
MS. MCCABE: If it's in my phone record, then I must have.
MR. JACKSON: It's in your phone records, that you're aware of. Well, let me ask it a different way. You're aware that your phone records actually show that at 5:07 you called 34 Fairview — Nicole Albert's phone. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: It shows also that that call lasted 38 seconds. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure what it shows.
MR. JACKSON: You actually spoke to your sister Nicole that morning?
MS. MCCABE: I did not speak to my sister. No.
MR. JACKSON: So that 38-second call went to voicemail?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure. All I can tell you is I never spoke to my sister Nicole that— morning prior to waking her up. But you do acknowledge that you made a phone call at 5:07 to — I'm sorry, to Nicole Albert, your sister, over at 34 Fairview in those early morning hours. Correct?
MR. JACKSON: But you do acknowledge that you made a phone call at 5:07 to Nicole Albert, your sister, over at 34 Fairview in those early morning hours. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. I learned after — when I am first being questioned, it's days after, it was a chaotic morning. I remembered the Waterfall, Julie, and then Tom Bey. Calling to my sister wasn't also important, not ingrained in my mind at that point.
MR. JACKSON: No. And then you testified at a grand jury — not hours or days later. You testified at a grand jury months later. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And at that grand jury, you also left out the fact that you contacted your sister. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: There was nothing. There's nothing nefarious. I remembered who I called. I didn't go back and look at phone records.
MR. JACKSON: I didn't say it was nefarious. Why would you use the word nefarious?
MS. MCCABE: Because there's nothing about me calling my sister that is nefarious. Now I feel like you're insinuating it might be, and it's not.
MR. JACKSON: Did you use that word because it sounds nefarious?
MS. MCCABE: No, I just use the word because I think that's how you're trying to portray something that is nothing.
MR. JACKSON: Or did you use that word because you think that's how it's coming across — that it's nefarious, not contacting 34 Fairview?
MS. MCCABE: No, not at all.
MR. JACKSON: Later that morning, of January— —29th. And by the way, you do acknowledge that your phone records show that you called at 5:07 a.m. to your sister's cell phone. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I don't have them in front of me, but I believe that is correct.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah. Were you calling your sister's phone to alert her of something? Is that why you called?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: Later that morning on January 29th, after those initial phone calls, and after the scene had been cleared, about 11:30 in the morning, you did have a formal interview with Massachusetts State Trooper Michael Proctor, did you not?
MS. MCCABE: I did. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Day before yesterday, you testified that Karen Read — actually, it was — I think it— —may have been Tuesday, you testified on direct examination that Karen Read just showed up at your house screaming. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: In point of fact, you told Michael Proctor in that 11:30 a.m., or thereabouts, interview that morning, that on January 29th, when Karen was on the phone with you, you told her to come to your house. Isn't that true?
MS. MCCABE: No, I never told her to come to my house.
MR. JACKSON: She told you she wanted to go search for John. And instead of saying, "I'll come meet you or I'll go wherever you want to go," you told her, "No, no, no. Come to my house and pick me up and we'll go together." Correct.
MS. MCCABE: No, that's incorrect.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember talking to Trooper Proctor on that day?
MS. MCCABE: I do. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember exactly what you told him concerning the plan to either come to your house or go search for John?
MS. MCCABE: There was never a plan for Karen to come to my house.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember exactly what you told him with regard to that issue?
MS. MCCABE: No, I don't.
MR. JACKSON: Would it refresh your recollection to look at a police report that he drafted on that issue?
MS. MCCABE: Well, those are his words or summary.
MR. JACKSON: That's not my question. I know these are his words — he wrote them. My question is, would it refresh your recollection about what you told him to take a look at his— —report?
MS. MCCABE: I know what happened and I know what I told him. I don't know what's written in that report.
MR. JACKSON: Yes or no?
MS. MCCABE: I don't need to see the report now.
MR. JACKSON: Because it would not refresh your recollection to see a report where it indicated that you told him that you directed Miss Read to come to your house.
MR. LALLY: I object.
JUDGE CANNONE: The objection is sustained. I'm going to strike that.
MR. JACKSON: You also told— please. May I?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Miss McCabe, during that same interview, you also told Trooper Proctor that while driving back to One Meadows after you had been picked up by Karen at your house — while driving back toward One Meadows — that's actually when Miss Read told you she may have broken her tail light. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Miss Read told me in the morning at my house.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I know that's what you're testifying to now.
MS. MCCABE: Mm-hmm.
MR. JACKSON: What I'm asking is, what did you tell Michael Proctor on January 29th? [unintelligible]
MS. MCCABE: That she had told me she had a cracked tail light when she called me.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't tell him that she indicated she noticed her tail light had been damaged on the drive back to One Meadows after she got to your house.
MS. MCCABE: She mentioned it then as well, but she also had told me when she was on the phone. That's why my husband yelled out that we shouldn't be driving with a— —cracked tail light.
MR. JACKSON: But in fact, you did not tell Trooper Proctor that story. What you told him was she told you on the drive back to One Meadows after having picked you up. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I told him she told me in the morning and on the drive back. So if he didn't write that in his report, it's obviously incorrect.
MR. JACKSON: [unintelligible] Of course, that drive back to One Meadows would have been 5:30-ish or so, maybe even a little later.
MS. MCCABE: 5:35, approximately.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah. I'm not sure. Well, after she backed out of the driveway and struck another vehicle at One Meadows, correct? Do you know that?
MS. MCCABE: No, I have no idea.
MR. JACKSON: All right. Speaking of Trooper Proctor — when you first interviewed with him, during that same interview on January 29th, you noticed that he was taking notes, obviously.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, he was.
MR. JACKSON: You told him about your observations of the tail light that day. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I'd have to see the report, but I believe I told him about it. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And that was literally the same day that you made the observations. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it was.
MR. JACKSON: He asked you to describe specifically what the tail light looked like.
MS. MCCABE: Mm-hmm.
MR. JACKSON: And you did so, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Could I see the report?
MR. JACKSON: All I'm asking right now — I've got the report. If you need it, I'll give it to you. I'm asking about your memory, Miss McCabe. Did you tell him about what the tail light looked like?
MS. MCCABE: If he asked me what the tail light looked like, then I would have told him what it looked like. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And what you told Trooper Proctor on that day is that you — quote — saw a crack in it. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I believe I said it was broken and cracked and it was missing pieces.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true that what you actually said is, "We got out at John's house and looked at the tail light — back right tail light — saw a crack in it." Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I said that I saw it and it was cracked and it was missing pieces.
MR. JACKSON: You noted he was taking notes. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Have you ever seen those notes?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: Would it refresh your recollection as to what you actually told him in terms of that description to take a look at his notes? [unintelligible]
JUDGE CANNONE: Ask it differently.
MR. JACKSON: Sure. Do you remember exactly the words you used in describing that tail light to Trooper Proctor as you sit here today?
MS. MCCABE: Again, the tail light was cracked and missing pieces.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I know that's what you're testifying to today, Miss McCabe. We're all aware of that. You've said it four or five times. Now, what I'm asking you is, what did you tell Trooper Proctor on—
MS. MCCABE: —January 29th?
MR. JACKSON: That's my question. Do you remember the exact words you used to him on the 29th?
MS. MCCABE: I believe I said it was cracked and missing pieces.
MR. JACKSON: Do you know that or are you guessing?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not guessing.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Do you remember that specifically?
MS. MCCABE: I remember describing it as cracked and missing pieces.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember saying it had a crack, or that she saw a crack in it?
MS. MCCABE: I do not remember saying that. No.
MR. JACKSON: Would it refresh your recollection to look at a copy of his notes?
MS. MCCABE: Those are his notes.
MR. JACKSON: Miss McCabe, we can do this all day. Would it refresh your recollection to look at a copy of his notes? If it wouldn't, just tell us.
MS. MCCABE: No, it wouldn't.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. As you sit here today, are you telling this jury that you deny saying to Trooper Proctor, "You saw a crack in it"? Are you denying that statement?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not denying it.
MR. JACKSON: So, you could have told him that.
MS. MCCABE: He asked me multiple times, different questions. I spoke to him at my house and then he had called me. So maybe one time I said it had a crack in it, and another time I said it was broken and missing pieces.
MR. JACKSON: So it's very possible that that's how you described it on the 29th, Miss McCabe — it had a crack in it, right?
MS. MCCABE: And missing pieces.
MR. JACKSON: Not asking you to finish my sentence. I'm asking you, is it possible that's— —what you told him that day? It had a crack in it. Yes or no?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. That was one way.
MR. JACKSON: In the days following January 29th, and the events of January 29th, 2022, were you and your family coordinating your versions of the events that occurred on that morning?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: Were you and your family coordinating some sort of damage control in terms of the language that your family would use to the public, to the press, to law enforcement?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did you and your family — you and part of your family — use a group chat to text each other to coordinate your communications with either the press or the public or law enforcement or family or friends?
MS. MCCABE: I have multiple group chats with family and friends. You had a very—
MR. JACKSON: — specific group chat that included yourself, Nicole, your sister, Brian Albert, and Matt McCabe.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes, I did.
MR. JACKSON: Your honor, if I may. I have a two-page document that I'd like to have marked for identification.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. You may approach.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: Did you show Mr. Brennan?
MR. JACKSON: I did. I failed to show you.
JUDGE CANNONE: That's okay.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
MS. MCCABE: You're welcome. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Can you tell me if you recognize what's depicted or what's contained on that two-page document?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What are — don't read it at this point. Just tell me, what is that? What are we looking at?
MS. MCCABE: This is a — looks like a group chat — with me and my sister Nicole. Oh, no. Just actually conversations with just myself and my sister Nicole.
MR. JACKSON: Can I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Oh, sure. For identification. Did you happen to catch the date of these chats?
MR. JACKSON: I just took the document away from you. I apologize.
MS. MCCABE: It's okay. I didn't know.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yeah, sure. Do you have an extra copy?
MR. JACKSON: She has one in here. I'll just leave that one. I've got an extra copy for myself. I'll leave that one. Thank you. Do you note the date of that series of chats?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. It says 1/29/22.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Is that a chat just between yourself and — I'm sorry, yourself and Nicole, or does that include others as well?
MS. MCCABE: I think it's just myself and Nicole.
MR. JACKSON: There was another series of chats, we'll get to that in a second, that does include Nicole, Brian, Matt McCabe.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: On this particular set of texts, do you see the first text starting in the green box? That is a text from you to — it says "Coco," correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. That's my sister Nicole. Okay.
MR. JACKSON: And you recognize this text?
MS. MCCABE: I do. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you recognize the texts following in the following bubbles?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I would ask this be — I'm sorry — moved into evidence. Is there any objection?
PARENTHETICAL: [sidebar]
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So, the objection is noted and overruled. So, Mr. Jackson, you can put that — K for identification is now in evidence as exhibit —
MR. BRENNAN: I could review it.
JUDGE CANNONE: Really? Why don't I see you at sidebar for a minute?
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: 47. Thank you, your honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Before I proceed — no. Jurors, before you consider any electronic communications in your deliberations — and you heard Trooper Guarino read a lot of text messages the other day. I didn't interrupt him. I probably should have. Before you consider any electronic communications in your deliberations, you must first find that it is more likely true than not that the person who either authored or created or transmitted the communication was in fact the person alleged. So here we have communications between — allegedly between Ms. McCabe and her sister. Before you can consider them, you must find that it's more likely than not that they were the people who sent and received those.
JUDGE CANNONE: If you do not find it's more likely true than not that the person alleged to have created or sent them — then you may not consider the electronic communication in deciding your case. Now, when you read or hear about these text messages, you may not consider the statements for their truth, but you may consider them solely for the limited purpose of understanding the state of mind of — here, Miss McCabe — when she sent those messages. All right. So, now that that's what I needed to do, Mr. Jackson, your turn.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, your honor. With the court's permission, I would ask that the January 29th text be published.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Woll, is there a way to — there we go. Margaret, the witness might need that exhibit. Your honor, may I approach just to retrieve the exhibit?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Oh, thank you.
MS. MCCABE: You're welcome.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah, I was just going to say, could you please enlarge that? Any way to make that bigger, and we'll take one bubble at a time. Miss McCabe, do you need lights on or are you okay?
MS. MCCABE: Oh, I'm okay.
MR. JACKSON: All right, thank you. Miss McCabe, does this appear to be a representative copy of what you're looking at that's just been marked for evidence?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it does.
MR. JACKSON: Starting at that top text, which is the green bubble here. Can you see at the very top where it says "from" — there's a redaction? The last four digits of that phone number — do you recognize that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Is that your phone number?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see just beneath it, it says "to" and there's a line that says "Coco"?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Is that your sister?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is. That's Nicole. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And if you look down on the bottom right corner of this exhibit, do you see a time and date stamp?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: What is that time and date?
MS. MCCABE: It's 1/29/22 at 7:54.
MR. JACKSON: Is that 7:54 p.m.?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Can you read for the jurors what you texted to your sister at 7:54?
MS. MCCABE: Sure. "Kerry talked to the cops and kept it simple."
MR. JACKSON: Who's Kerry?
MS. MCCABE: Kerry Roberts.
MR. JACKSON: And this is a text that you sent about Miss Roberts's interview with the police.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Woll, can we pull up the next text, please? Do you see the response in the blue bubble?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: Who's responding to whom?
MS. MCCABE: I'm responding to my sister Nicole.
MR. JACKSON: Can you please tell us the time — and we know it's the same date. What time is that?
MS. MCCABE: That would be 7:50. I'm sorry. 7:56 or 7:58. Sorry. I'm not sure if that's an eight or a six.
MR. JACKSON: I may have misheard you. The blue bubble is from whom?
MS. MCCABE: It's from — my sister Nicole.
MR. JACKSON: To whom?
MS. MCCABE: To me.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I may have misheard you. I thought you said the reverse. I want to make sure we're very clear. The blue bubble is from Nicole. The green bubbles are from you.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Got it. And this text says — I'm sorry. Read that for me one more time.
MS. MCCABE: Sure. "Try and get some sleep. Talk tomorrow."
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. What's the time of this text?
MS. MCCABE: 7:57.
MR. JACKSON: This is from you to Coco — to Nicole.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What does that text say?
MS. MCCABE: "Any update?"
MR. JACKSON: What did you mean by "any update"?
MS. MCCABE: I meant had she heard anything or learned anything new.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Do you see a response from your sister to you?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What does that say?
MS. MCCABE: "We'll get more info tomorrow. Don't want to text about it."
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Is this a text from you to your sister Nicole?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is.
MR. JACKSON: What does that say?
MS. MCCABE: "Right."
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. What is the date and time of this text?
MS. MCCABE: It is 1/29/2022 at 8:01 p.m.
MR. JACKSON: And this is in response to the text that you just read from you to your sister. And this is now a text from your sister back to you.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: What does this text say?
MS. MCCABE: "Okay. Text me in the — text me in A.M. or if you hear anything later."
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. We can bring the lights up for just a moment. One of the texts — the third from the bottom text on the second page — in other words, the top text on the page — was from your sister to you: "Will get more info — Tmrw" — correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: "Don't want to text about it."
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: "Tmrw" means tomorrow.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: This was January 29th, 2022.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Tomorrow would have been January 30th.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: 2022. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Your honor, I'm holding another document. This is a multi-page document. Eight pages in total length. There's a base page on bottom. 02148. Thank you. May I approach the witness?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Can you please take a look at that document, flip through it, and let me know when you're finished? And this is the document we discussed at sidebar, your honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: It is. May I approach?
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Thank you. May I stand at the witness stand for just a second? Thank you. Don't have a separate copy for —
JUDGE CANNONE: I do.
MR. JACKSON: I'm going to hand you this one and ask that this be marked. Couple foundational questions. Ms. McCabe, do you recognize what was depicted in these documents?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Does this appear to be a group chat between and among yourself, Nicole Albert, Chris Albert —
MS. MCCABE: I don't believe Chris Albert's on that.
MR. JACKSON: I'm sorry, my mistake. Brian Albert.
MS. MCCABE: Yeah, Brian. Sorry.
MR. JACKSON: So, the four of you?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And does this appear to be a group chat that was engaged between and among y'all on February 1st — starting — I'm going to try to bookend it — starting at about noon, ending at about 5 or 5:30 that evening?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't look, but I'll take your word for it. You could just look at the first one or two.
MR. JACKSON: Oh, yeah. February 1st. Yeah. Okay. And then the last one, same date around 5:30?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: Approach. Yes. This be marked. Right. Same. For identification or in evidence? In evidence. Same objection, Mr. Brennan. Please. Okay. Yes. That concludes — [exhibit] 48. Oh, can I — And jurors, the same instruction regarding the electronic communications — and the same instruction: this is not to be used for the truth of what's in there, but simply to show the state of mind — with the court's permission, to publish, please. Yes. If we could start at the second text down. Miss — [unintelligible], can you make that a little bigger? [unintelligible]: I apologize.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Do you recognize what's depicted, both on the screen and in your hand?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Does it appear to be the same thing?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Taking a look at that first text, who is that from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: Okay. All right. It's from Brian Albert and it's to myself, my sister Nicole, and Matt McCabe, my husband.
MR. JACKSON: If you can orient us, please. And I won't do this with every single text, but orient us for the first text. What date and time is this text?
MS. MCCABE: This is February 1st at 12:50.
MR. JACKSON: So, this is about 3 days after the event in question.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: 12:50 noon?
MS. MCCABE: Noon. Yeah. Just before 1:00 p.m.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. What does that text say?
MS. MCCABE: "Julie said Channel 4 is in D&E."
MR. JACKSON: And that's from whom?
MS. MCCABE: Brian.
MR. JACKSON: So Brian Albert is — explain what that text means.
MS. MCCABE: So Brian Albert is telling us that Julie told him Channel 4 is in D&E.
MR. JACKSON: Who's Julie?
MS. MCCABE: I'm sorry. Julie Albert.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Let's go to the next text. Is this in response to the text that you just read?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: The prior text mentioned Channel 4 and D&E. What is D&E?
MS. MCCABE: D&E is a sub shop that is owned by Chris Albert.
MR. JACKSON: Is that in Canton?
MS. MCCABE: Oh, sorry. Yes, it's in Canton.
MR. JACKSON: On the main street of Canton?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Directly next door to what?
MS. MCCABE: Uh, Waterfall. Across the street from Waterfall. I'm sorry. C.F. McCarthy's.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah. Thank you. Across the street from Waterfall. Directly adjoining. They have an adjoining wall to C.F. McCarthy's, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And is it D and E, or D-N-
MS. MCCABE: E? D and E. D and E.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. That's just the name of the pizza sub shop.
MS. MCCABE: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: All right. Thank you for that context. Miss McCabe, can you read what this text says, who it's from, and who it's to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from Matt McCabe to myself, my sister Nicole, and Brian.
MR. JACKSON: Can you read it for us, please?
MS. MCCABE: Sure. "Eating, I assume. Ask Chris to ask some questions. Tell them the guy never went into the house."
MR. JACKSON: What does "tell them the guy never went into the house" mean to you? How did you take that?
MS. MCCABE: I took that as John never came in the house.
MR. JACKSON: Who's the guy?
MS. MCCABE: John. John O'Keefe.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. And the beginning of that sentence is "tell them that the guy never came in the house." Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And the sentence before that is "ask Chris to ask some questions." Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So this is Matt McCabe directing that Chris ask questions of Channel 4. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I wouldn't say directing — whatever word you want to use. He was —
MR. JACKSON: No, I'm saying suggesting —
MS. MCCABE: I think we're all looking to find out what happened. So Matt was like, "Ask some questions. What do they know?" And also indicating that Chris should tell them the guy never came in the house.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. John never came in the house. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Can you orient us — who is this text from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: Okay. This text is from Brian, to myself, to Nicole, and to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: Brian who?
MS. MCCABE: Sorry. Brian Albert.
MR. JACKSON: And this is in response to the text above that you just read. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Where Matt McCabe said, "Tell Chris to find out, get an update or something and tell him that the guy never came in the house."
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: In response to that text.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And what does Brian Albert respond?
MS. MCCABE: "Exactly." One word.
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. This is a green box. So, I presume this is you.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is.
MR. JACKSON: And this is to whom?
MS. MCCABE: To Nicole, to Brian, to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: And what does your text read?
MS. MCCABE: It means "oh my god." It's "omg," but it was meant to be OMG.
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Yeah. I do a lot of errors. Which stands for "oh my god."
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Next text, please. Who is this from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: So, this is from my sister Nicole to myself, to Brian, and to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: And what does that text read?
MS. MCCABE: It says, "I assume it's just to eat, but Brian, if she is there, ask her what the deal is."
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Before I ask you about this text, the last text — that was from whom? One more time.
MS. MCCABE: My sister Nicole.
MR. JACKSON: It was from your sister Nicole.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And she mentions a "she" pronoun.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Is that referring to Julie Albert?
MS. MCCABE: To be honest, I don't know who she's referring to.
MR. JACKSON: Well, did the first text start with someone reporting that Julie said that Channel 4 was in D&E?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it did.
MR. JACKSON: So, would that prior text mean get Julie Albert to get some updates on what's going on? Let me go back to that last text one more time. You see where it reads "if she's there" — does that mean if Julie is at D&E? Hence, she just reported that Channel 4 is there.
MS. MCCABE: I'm truly not sure who she's referring to as the "she."
MR. JACKSON: Okay, fair enough. Let's go to the next text, please. Mr. Woll, I think you missed one. The one above it. Who's this text from? And who's it to?
MS. MCCABE: This text is from myself and it is to my sister Nicole, to Brian, and to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: And what does this read?
MS. MCCABE: This says to ask if we heard if she is in a mental hospital.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from me to my sister Nicole, to Brian, and to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: What's the time on this text?
MS. MCCABE: 2:55.
MR. JACKSON: And what does it read?
MS. MCCABE: "Kerry is here going over timeline."
MR. JACKSON: Who's Kerry referring to?
MS. MCCABE: Kerry Roberts.
MR. JACKSON: What is "here"?
MS. MCCABE: I would assume "here" would mean my house.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this from? And who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from Brian to me, to Nicole, to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: And what does this text read?
MS. MCCABE: "I did hear that."
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this text from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This text is from me to my sister Nicole, to Brian, to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: What does it read?
MS. MCCABE: "And we handed the phone to Kerry."
MR. JACKSON: Who's Kerry?
MS. MCCABE: Kerry Roberts.
MR. JACKSON: What phone are you referring to? On February 1st.
MS. MCCABE: I believe it could have been Michael Proctor.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this from and who's it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from me to Nicole, to Brian, to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: What does it read?
MS. MCCABE: "She is telling him everything." "Everything" is in all caps with an exclamation point.
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is.
MR. JACKSON: What's the time stamp on this, Miss McCabe?
MS. MCCABE: 2:55.
MR. JACKSON: Who's the "him" that you're referring to in this text?
MS. MCCABE: I believe it was Michael Proctor.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from me to Nicole, to Brian, to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: What's the time stamp on this text?
MS. MCCABE: 2:55.
MR. JACKSON: Same minute that you sent the last text, "she's telling him everything."
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And then you follow up with what?
MS. MCCABE: "All the stuff."
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this responsive text from?
MS. MCCABE: This is from Matt to myself, Nicole, and Brian.
MR. JACKSON: And what's the time stamp on this?
MS. MCCABE: 4:35.
MR. JACKSON: What does this read?
MS. MCCABE: "Yep. If she pleads out, it will end. If she fights it, it will be an episode."
MR. JACKSON: Who's "she"?
MS. MCCABE: I'm assuming that would be Miss Read.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from Nicole, to me, to Matt, and to Brian.
MR. JACKSON: And what does this read?
MS. MCCABE: She liked the text above — the previous text.
MR. JACKSON: Meaning like a thumbs up or a like.
MS. MCCABE: Yeah, it just says "liked."
MR. JACKSON: So the one that reads, "Yeah, if she pleads, it will end. If she fights, it will be an episode."
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who's this from and who's it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from Matt. Oh, sorry. To me, to Nicole, and to Brian.
MR. JACKSON: And what does this read?
MS. MCCABE: "Brian sitting separate." Is that a period or a —
MR. JACKSON: Is that a period or a comma? Is that a period or a comma between "Brian" and "sitting"? Or can you
MS. MCCABE: Tell? I can't tell if it is or it's just like the way it printed out. I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this from and who's it to?
MS. MCCABE: Brian, to me, Nicole, and Matt.
MR. JACKSON: What's the time stamp on this?
MS. MCCABE: That is 4:55.
MR. JACKSON: And what does that text read?
MS. MCCABE: "Okay."
MR. JACKSON: And the next text — this is another green bubble. Who's this from? And who's it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is me, Nicole, Matt, and Brian.
MR. JACKSON: And what did you write in this text?
MS. MCCABE: I wrote "you listening."
MR. JACKSON: And what's the time stamp on this?
MS. MCCABE: That is 5:15.
MR. JACKSON: It would be what time?
MS. MCCABE: Oh, I'm sorry. 5:15.
MR. JACKSON: And in fact, at 5:15, Miss Roberts was in your house being personally interviewed by Massachusetts State Police. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: They were there. I'm not sure if this is the exact time, but yes, they did come over.
MR. JACKSON: Just to be clear, and to orient us, there was a phone conversation that you were privy to between Kerry Roberts and Michael Proctor telephonically, right?
MS. MCCABE: She was — earlier in the day. Yeah. Earlier in the day, he had called me and then Kerry had asked to speak with him. And that's the handoff of the phone.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. And later, a couple of hours later, 5ish or so, she was still at your house. Trooper Proctor came over and interviewed
MS. MCCABE: Her at your home. No, I'm sorry. They came over and spoke to myself, her, and Matt.
MR. JACKSON: And you wrote "you listening" to the group, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Who was that specifically directed to?
MS. MCCABE: I honestly don't know.
MR. JACKSON: Was there anybody else in the house during her interview other than you and the troopers?
MS. MCCABE: My husband Matt, my daughter, her friend, my other daughter.
MR. JACKSON: So, of the people on this text chain, the only person that would have been in the house that could have conceivably quote unquote "listened" would be Matt. Okay.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who's this from and who's it to?
MS. MCCABE: It's from me to Matt, Nicole, and Brian.
MR. JACKSON: And what does it read?
MS. MCCABE: "Cops here again."
MR. JACKSON: You were reporting to the others on this text stream that the police had arrived at your house. They were within your house with you and Kerry that you just described. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. I was just telling them that they were here again.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from my sister — sorry, Nicole, to myself, Brian, and Matt.
MR. JACKSON: And Nicole says, "Call us after." And what time was this?
MS. MCCABE: This was 5:23.
MR. JACKSON: Did you take this to mean that she wanted you to call the group after Kerry Roberts' interview and update them about that interview?
MS. MCCABE: I took it as that she just wanted to call and see what the cops said and if there was any update, any information.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this from and who's it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from Matt and it's to myself, Nicole, and Brian.
MR. JACKSON: What time is this?
MS. MCCABE: This is at 5:31.
MR. JACKSON: And at 5:31, what does Mr. McCabe write to the group?
MS. MCCABE: This girl could write a book non-stop.
MR. JACKSON: Was that in reference to Kerry Roberts having her interview with the Massachusetts State Police?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it was.
MR. JACKSON: And "this girl" is Kerry, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who's this from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from me to Nicole, Brian, and Matt.
MR. JACKSON: What time is this text?
MS. MCCABE: 5:32.
MR. JACKSON: And what do you write to the group?
MS. MCCABE: I love it.
MR. JACKSON: And this is in direct response to Matt McCabe's — your husband's — text about Kerry Roberts could write a book. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Suggesting that both you and Mr. McCabe were listening to her interview. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: We could hear different parts of it. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. And who is this from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from me to Nicole to Brian to Matt.
MR. JACKSON: What did you write?
MS. MCCABE: I wrote — I wrote "she is telling them everything."
MR. JACKSON: Similar to the text that we earlier saw that was in all caps when you indicated "she's telling them everything." Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, on the phone. That was in reference to what she was saying on the phone.
MR. JACKSON: This is in reference to the live interview, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Also indicating that you were listening to and were privy to the content of her conversation with the police.
MS. MCCABE: I could hear bits and pieces of it. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Enough to say that she's telling them everything.
MS. MCCABE: When I used the word "everything," I meant it — not only was she telling them what had happened, but she was also telling them opinions and different things.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So you could hear that much.
MS. MCCABE: I could hear her saying some opinions.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Next text, please. Who is this from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from my sister Nicole to myself, to Matt, to Brian.
MR. JACKSON: And this is in response to "she is telling them everything." Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And the text reads what?
MS. MCCABE: Good.
MR. JACKSON: Next text, please. Who is this from and who is it to?
MS. MCCABE: This is from Matt to myself, to Nicole, and to Brian.
MR. JACKSON: And what does it read?
MS. MCCABE: He says, "Going to miss the basketball game at this rate."
MR. JACKSON: Matt says "going to miss the basketball game at this rate," indicating that he was still in the house and still privy to the conversation between Kerry Roberts and the Massachusetts State Police.
MS. MCCABE: He was waiting for them to talk, but Kerry kept — as he said, she could write a book. So he felt he was going to miss the game because she just kept talking.
MR. JACKSON: Next text please. That may be the end of it.
MS. MCCABE: Yeah, it is.
MR. JACKSON: Is that the last text on the page?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is. [unintelligible]: Mayor Coch. Yes. Do you want both of them? Okay, there you go, Miss McCabe. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: These text messages were on a private chat — both the one between you and your sister, as well as the group chat. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Those are private chats, not open to the public. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You never intended obviously for any of those texts to become public. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Those — I handed my phone over, so I knew all my texts would be seen.
MR. JACKSON: When the group was chatting back and forth, or texting back and forth, those were intended to be private texts between and among just the people on the text string. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I just was texting my family. I wasn't thinking any more of who was going to see it.
MR. JACKSON: You certainly did not expect when you were writing those texts that the defense — Miss Karen Read's representatives — would ever get a hold of those texts. That was not in your mind. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Would never have been in my mind. No.
MR. JACKSON: That is a textbook example of what we've just seen — witnesses colluding with one another about a subject matter that's under investigation. And move for instruction.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Jurors, disregard that comment. Completely disregard that question. You want to make me approach?
MR. JACKSON: Yes. May I?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: In the texts that we just saw, you were colluding with other witnesses — recipient witnesses in this case — through those text messages, were you not?
MS. MCCABE: I was not.
MR. JACKSON: You were organizing your statements to the police based on what you overheard and what you heard during Kerry Roberts's interview with the Massachusetts State Police, weren't you?
MS. MCCABE: No, I was not.
MR. JACKSON: You were reporting back to other recipient witnesses what you heard and saw during other witnesses' statements to the police — to Kerry Roberts. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I was telling them Kerry was speaking with the police.
MR. JACKSON: And you told them she's telling them — quote — "everything." Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. I told them some of the opinions that she stated.
MR. JACKSON: And when Mr. McCabe said she could write a book — she's going on and on — your statement was "I love it." Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you reported that back to other witnesses who were not privy to Miss Roberts's statements to the police. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: To my sister and to my brother-in-law. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And then your sister asked for updates when Kerry Roberts was done. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I don't know if it was in regard to updates when she was done, or updates like — did they tell us anything? Is there anything new? We were still all trying to figure out what had happened.
MR. JACKSON: The four of you were discussing the facts surrounding this case — not only with each other, but discussing interviews, formal police interviews that you heard or overheard with another witness, weren't you?
MS. MCCABE: I told them some of the things that Kerry Roberts said. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you were happy about what she said after you had created this timeline with her. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: The timeline had nothing to do with it, but it was certainly chronologically — her interview with the police was after this timeline had already been created between you and Kerry. Yes, we both put down what had happened so we would remember.
MR. JACKSON: And then once she was interviewed, you were responding to the rest of the group: "She's telling them everything" — meaning everything we just crafted in this timeline, right?
MS. MCCABE: No, I meant she was telling them everything. She was telling her personal opinions about Miss Read.
MR. JACKSON: I want to change gears for a second, Miss McCabe, and ask you about that visit that you took to Michael Lank's house. May I approach, your honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I just don't want to keep these at the podium. Thank you, your honor. Have you and Miss Roberts discussed that visit to Michael Lank's house before your testimony? Before you testified to it for the first time in May of 2024, about a year ago, did y'all discuss that at all?
MS. MCCABE: I don't recall.
MR. JACKSON: You testified under oath in that proceeding that you went — and I want to be very clear about this — that you went from One Meadows, the O'Keefe residence, John O'Keefe's residence, directly to Michael Lank's residence, which is in another neighborhood in the same town. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, we went — correct.
MR. JACKSON: And you indicated that you were there to drop off one of Kerry's daughters. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That's how you testified in May of 2024. About a year ago.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Just a moment. Yes. You spoke to Lieutenant Tully about this very same visit on May 10th, 2024, before your actual testimony in that other proceeding a year ago. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: All right. And what y'all talked about was your visit and your travels over to Sgt. Lank's — by the way, Sgt. Michael Lank of Canton PD, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: The same Michael Lank that we've talked about.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You talked to Lieutenant Tully about that trip over to Michael Lank's house. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated that in that interview with Lieutenant Tully that you went over to the Lank residence with Kerry Roberts to pick up her daughter at the residence. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Not to drop her off, but to pick her up. She was with us at Meadows, so we dropped her off.
MR. JACKSON: Right. And I know that's what your testimony was a couple days ago. I'm asking — when you talked to Lieutenant Tully on May 10th, 2024, before your testimony last year, did you tell Lieutenant Tully we were actually there to — I'm sorry, to pick up her daughter? That's why you went to Michael Lank's house.
MS. MCCABE: I went to Michael Lank's to drop her daughter off.
MR. JACKSON: What did you tell Lieutenant Tully?
MS. MCCABE: That I went to drop her off.
MR. JACKSON: So you didn't say "pick her up" to him?
MS. MCCABE: I don't believe so.
MR. JACKSON: Now, so if he said that, that would be another example of an incorrect report.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember exactly what it was that you told him in that area?
MS. MCCABE: I know that Lexi was with us at Meadows and we dropped her off at Mike Lank's. So if he mixed up "pick up" and "drop off," that could have happened, but we had Lexi with us and we dropped her off there.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So you believe that may have been his mix-up, not yours?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember exactly what it was that you told Lieutenant Tully during that interview?
MS. MCCABE: I know I said that we dropped her off.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. It was 11 days later that you actually testified, correct? About 10, 11 days after the interview with Lieutenant Tully, you actually testified in court in a proceeding about this issue.
MS. MCCABE: [unintelligible], I don't know the exact dates of when I testified. If you testified — say May 21st versus May 10th, it's about 11
MR. JACKSON: Days. Yeah. All right. When you testified in that other proceeding, you did testify that you had dropped off Kerry Roberts' daughter, not picked her daughter up. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I know. I dropped her off. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Did you also talk to Kerry Roberts about her testimony and what she was going to say about dropping off or picking up her daughter?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You never talked to her about it before you testified or before she testified last year?
MS. MCCABE: We both know what happened.
MR. JACKSON: So, I'm just asking if you had a discussion. That's all I'm asking.
MS. MCCABE: I have no idea if we discussed that.
MR. JACKSON: So, you might have.
MS. MCCABE: I have no idea.
MR. JACKSON: And in the last year, let's clock it all the way around to now, you've probably discussed it additionally with her. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Probably not that detail. No.
MR. JACKSON: Now, you also indicated — by the way, the reason that this subject matter came up with Lieutenant Tully is you were confronted with certain location data records indicating that you were at Michael Lank's house for a period of time. Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Let me ask it differently. Were you provided any records and asked about records that showed that you were at Michael Lank's house on January 30th, 2022?
MS. MCCABE: I was asked if I had gone to Michael Lank's house. And I had, to be honest, I had completely forgotten because those days were just a complete blur. But then I remembered that after we left Meadows, we did drop Lexi — I'm sorry, her daughter off at Michael Lank's.
MR. JACKSON: All right. Do you recall ever seeing a document — seeing something that indicated that you were — a piece of paper, a document, a record, anything indicating that you were seen at Michael Lank's house through GPS location data forms?
MS. MCCABE: Did I ever see a record of that? Did Lieutenant — He never — No, he didn't show me a record.
MR. JACKSON: He just asked you about it.
MS. MCCABE: He just asked me.
MR. JACKSON: Did he tell you during that course of that interview that he had been provided with GPS data records indicating that you went to Michael Lank's house?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember the specifics of what he asked, but I know that he did ask me if I had been there.
MR. JACKSON: Did he tell you that he had received those GPS data records from the defense? Did he tell you anything about receiving any documents from the defense that prompted the question of where you were on January 30th?
MS. MCCABE: I don't recall.
MR. JACKSON: Before that — that interview on May 10th with Lieutenant Tully — this is preceding your testimony last year — had you ever reported that you went to Michael Lank's house, Sergeant Lank's house on January 30th to anybody?
MS. MCCABE: No. To be — I completely forgot about it.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated that during that visit you sat outside in a car — in Kerry's car. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Basically for the entire visit. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated that you did not go in the house except to use the restroom possibly. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I have a faint memory that I ran in to use the bathroom.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated that you did not see Sergeant Lank at his home. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I don't believe I did. No.
MR. JACKSON: What time of night was this?
MS. MCCABE: I don't know. We had left — we had been at Meadows for a while and then we left, dropped Lexi off, and then I went home. Yeah, I don't know a time. Maybe afternoon. I'm not sure. I'm sorry.
MR. JACKSON: Your honor, I have a 10-page document that I'd like to have marked for identification with the court's permission.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure. Show Mr. Brennan on your way up.
MR. JACKSON: No problem. Take your time. ada brennan reviews document He is just going to review it — review that document. I have no problem with that.
JUDGE CANNONE: Thank you. Good. Okay.
MR. JACKSON: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Do you recognize the document there? So, has it been marked yet? I'm sorry — I asked that it be marked for identification at this point. Just only for identification.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sorry. So the madam court reporter will mark it and give it back.
MR. JACKSON: Okay.
COURT CLERK: Thank you for identification.
JUDGE CANNONE: Go ahead, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, your honor. Once you get the document back, I'll ask you a couple of quick questions about it.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: I'm sorry. Crazy. You have the document in front of you?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Let's take a look at the first page of that document just to orient yourself. Do you see that that appears to be a map generally? All right. So, I'm just going to ask you to take a look at the document and don't describe it.
MS. MCCABE: Sure.
PARENTHETICAL: [sidebar]
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure. Yes. Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at the first page and tell me if you recognize anything on that page.
MS. MCCABE: I do. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What do you recognize generally about that document?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. I'll see you counsel at sidebar. May I have that please, ma'am?
MR. JACKSON: May I continue, your honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Taking a look at that first page, do you recognize a location that's pinpointed on that page?
MS. MCCABE: I do.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Without telling me the address, what do you recognize that as being?
MS. MCCABE: My house.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And do you see the callout box in the middle of the page?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see a date and time?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What is the date and time?
MS. MCCABE: It is January 30th at 12:13.
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at page two on what's been marked for identification.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see a location pinpointed on that page?
MS. MCCABE: I do. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What do you recognize that location as being?
MS. MCCABE: John O'Keefe's home.
MR. JACKSON: Is that what we've talked about on Meadows?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, Meadows.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see a time and date for that location?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. 1/30/2022 at 12:19.
MR. JACKSON: At 12:19 p.m.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Thank you. If you could turn to page — pardon me — four. Skip over page three and just go straight to page four. Do you recognize something that's been pinpointed on that map as well?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What is that? Again, don't give me the full address. What is that location that's pinpointed?
MS. MCCABE: That is my house.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And do you see a date and time for that location?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, that's 1/30 at 5:21.
MR. JACKSON: When you say 1/30 — January 30th, sorry — January 30th, 2022 at 5:21.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Looking at page five, do you see a location pinpointed on that map as well?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I do.
MR. JACKSON: And what's the date and time of that location?
MS. MCCABE: That is also 1/30/2022 and that is at 5:28.
MR. JACKSON: Got it. Taking a look at page six, do you see a location pinpointed on that map?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What is that location?
MS. MCCABE: That is 1/30/2022. The location, the address. Oh, I'm sorry. That is Fairview — appears to be 34 Fairview.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. And what's the date and time?
MS. MCCABE: 5:36.
MR. JACKSON: Taking a look at page seven. Do you see a pinpoint location on that page?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What is that location?
MS. MCCABE: That's Fairview again.
MR. JACKSON: And what's the date and time?
MS. MCCABE: That is 1/30/2022 at 5:40.
MR. JACKSON: So, just to be clear, the page before was 5:36 and this page is 5:40.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Take a look at page 8. Do you see what's pinpointed on that page?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What is that location without giving me the address?
MS. MCCABE: I believe that's Mike Lank's.
MR. JACKSON: What's the date and time?
MS. MCCABE: 1/30/2022. January 30th, 2022. And the time, please? 5:43.
MR. JACKSON: You're familiar with Canton obviously?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Much more than we are. Is driving time from 34 Fairview to Michael Lank's house consistent with about 3 or 4 minutes?
MS. MCCABE: It could be — they have multiple stop signs.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And due to the weather, right? Taking a look at page nine.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Do you see another pinpointed address?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. I believe it's the same one. Okay. The same address as Michael Lank's.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And what's the date and time of that?
MS. MCCABE: 1/30/2022 and that is 6:28.
MR. JACKSON: And 6:28 is about 45 minutes after 5:43, give or take. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Finally, the last page, page 10. Do you see yet another pinpointed address?
MS. MCCABE: I do. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Is that your address?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And what's the date and time of that pinpoint?
MS. MCCABE: That is 1/30/2022 as well. And that is at 6:34.
MR. JACKSON: And would it be safe to say that your address from Mike Lank's address is maybe a six or seven minute drive?
MS. MCCABE: Yeah, depending.
MR. JACKSON: We were talking about what happened when you were at Mike Lank's that evening. By the way, does any of that refresh your recollection about the time that you went to Mike Lank's house?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. I knew it was after Meadows and later in the day. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So closer to 5:45, 6:30, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: This is in January in Boston. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: The greater Boston area. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Gets dark really early.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: It was a blizzard the night before.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Safe to say that it was dark out.
MS. MCCABE: Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: Safe to say it was cold out.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: The blizzard was still brewing. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I think it had stopped snowing by then.
MR. JACKSON: Still freezing cold?
MS. MCCABE: I believe so.
MR. JACKSON: And your testimony is that you sat outside in a car with Kerry Roberts and Michael Lank's wife for 45 minutes.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And I'm assuming the car was running.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Heat had to be on full blast.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You're dressed in winter gear.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Because it's freezing out. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You actually got out of the car and went into the house to go to the restroom at one point.
MR. JACKSON: And the three of you didn't just decide, let's just go in the house.
MS. MCCABE: No, we didn't.
MR. JACKSON: You actually came out of the restroom, came out of the nice warm house, and fought the cold and got back in the car, according to you.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes, I went back in the car because Kerry was going to bring me home.
MR. JACKSON: You stated on direct examination — and you've stated again today — that you stopped by Michael Lank's house, Sergeant Lank's house, directly from the O'Keefe residence, as — sort of, my word not yours — sort of a pit stop to drop off Kerry Roberts's daughter.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: In point of fact, you actually drove from your personal residence to Michael Lank's house as a destination, didn't you?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember that.
MR. JACKSON: This is what this piece of paper says.
MS. MCCABE: I remember just leaving Meadows and dropping off Lexi.
MR. JACKSON: In point of fact, it wasn't an errand. It wasn't to drop anybody off. It was a destination that you went to, from your house to Sergeant Lank's house, on January 30th, 2022, wasn't it?
MS. MCCABE: No, we went to drop off Lexi.
MR. JACKSON: Was Lexi at your house?
MS. MCCABE: She was with us at Meadows and then we went to drop her off.
MR. JACKSON: Right. She was never with you at your house, was she?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember going to my house.
MR. JACKSON: So, if she wasn't with you at your house, there would be no reason to drop the child off from your house to Michael Lank's house.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Lexi was in the car with us and we dropped her off at Michael Lank's. That's why we went to Sergeant Lank's house. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And in fact, we actually went from your house and did make a pit stop to 34, didn't we?
MS. MCCABE: We drove by and um stopped. Yes. Slowly stopped. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You went in the house and spoke with someone?
MS. MCCABE: No. I never went in the house.
MR. JACKSON: Why did you come by and just stop?
MS. MCCABE: I think Kerry and I just went by to like take a look at it. We were still trying to figure everything out.
MR. JACKSON: Stayed there for 46 minutes.
MS. MCCABE: Um, I have to look at the report, but yeah, we were sitting in the car kind of just like, oh my god, looking. Didn't go in the house. We didn't go in the house.
MR. JACKSON: Nobody came outside to talk to you.
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't speak to Nicole.
MS. MCCABE: I don't believe so. Possible. Like I said, Kerry and I just kind of drove by and were looking at the area.
MR. JACKSON: And that's before you went to Michael Lank's house, correct?
MS. MCCABE: That was on the way to Michael Lank's.
MR. JACKSON: So, in point of fact, you didn't go directly from One Meadows to Michael Lank's house.
MS. MCCABE: I thought I had. I truly thought I had.
MR. JACKSON: But now your memory is refreshed.
MS. MCCABE: My memory is not — this isn't refreshing my memory. I do not remember going by my house before Michael Lank's.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember testifying a year ago that — well, let me ask it this way. Do you remember denying a year ago that you ever even stopped by 34 Fairview?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember that.
MR. JACKSON: Now, would it refresh your recollection to take a look at your prior testimony?
MS. MCCABE: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at that page that's top highlighted.
MS. MCCABE: May I?
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. On May 21st of last year, you were asked about this very thing in a prior proceeding. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: At that time you denied altogether ever going by 34 Fairview. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: No, I believe the paper says I never stopped by, but we drove by.
MR. JACKSON: And now you're saying that you did stop.
MS. MCCABE: Stopping by and driving by meant something different to me. Stopping by I look at as like then you pop in the house. Driving by is you just drove — drive by. So we just drove by slowly and kind of looked at the scene.
MR. JACKSON: And Miss McCabe, I think you just said that you may have even spoken with Nicole.
MS. MCCABE: I didn't speak with Nicole. No, we were in the car, Kerry and I. And Lexi.
MR. JACKSON: You're denying that you ever spoke with Nicole or any other member of the Albert family or anybody at 34 Fairview as we sit here today?
MS. MCCABE: As I sit here today, I'm telling you that we slowly drove by.
MR. JACKSON: So again, last question on this point. You did not — you now admit — drive from One Meadows over to 34 — I'm sorry — over to Michael Lank's house directly to drop off Kerry's daughter.
MS. MCCABE: My memory is we did drive from One Meadows. I know what this piece of paper says. I'm telling you that my memory is we left Meadows and went down Fairview and then went to Michael Lank's, but this paper is saying we stopped at my house first. I don't remember that. But again, I was in shock. Sorry. So a lot of things from that day are foggy. Certain things, certain details I may have forgotten.
MR. JACKSON: And all of your testimony over the last several days is based on that memory that you just described to these jurors.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. There are certain things I will never forget.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. You may — depending upon your answer — I'm sorry, depending upon what you just answered, you may or may not remember. Well, let's see.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true that at 12:13 p.m. you left 12 Country Lane on January 30th, 2022?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. According to this, yes.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true that at 12:19 you arrived at One Meadows, the O'Keefe residence?
MS. MCCABE: According to this? Yes.
MR. LALLY: Are you asking her regarding —
MR. JACKSON: I'm asking her memory, not according to the document.
JUDGE CANNONE: Oh.
MS. MCCABE: Oh. My memory — I don't remember exact times.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. Isn't it true, Miss McCabe, that at 5:12 p.m. you left One Meadows, which is the O'Keefe residence?
MS. MCCABE: 5:12 in the evening — I don't remember the times that I left.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true that at 5:21 you arrived back at your address on Country Lane?
MS. MCCABE: I do not remember that.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true that at 5:28, seven minutes later, you actually left your address on Country Lane?
MS. MCCABE: Again, I don't remember going by my house.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true that at 5:36 you arrived at 34 Fairview and stayed for at least four minutes?
MS. MCCABE: I know we drove by.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true that at 5:40, just thereafter, you left 34 Fairview?
MS. MCCABE: I know we left and went to Mike Lank's.
MR. JACKSON: And isn't it true at 5:43 you arrived on that Oakdale Road address at Sergeant Lank's house?
MS. MCCABE: Not sure of the exact time, but yes, we did go to Sergeant Lank's house.
MR. JACKSON: And isn't it true that at 6:28 — almost 45 minutes later, actually a little better than 45 minutes later — you left that address at Michael Lank's house and drove back to your house directly?
MS. MCCABE: After leaving Mike Lank's, I went home. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And you arrived at your house at 6:34.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. According to the paper.
MR. JACKSON: What about according to your memory?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember exact times.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Jackson, is this a good place to take a break? Do you have a while more?
MR. JACKSON: Okay.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Jurors, we will take our morning recess. 15, 20 minutes. We'll reconvene then. If you just break this way, jurors. Thank you.
COURT OFFICER: Please be seated.
JUDGE CANNONE: Jurors, that break was longer than I told you it would be. We were waiting for some records to be printed. So it took a while, but we appreciate your patience. All right, Mr. Jackson, go right ahead.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, your honor. Miss McCabe, I'm going to shift gears to some phone calls that you had with Trooper Michael Proctor back in January of 2022, moving forward to February and March. Your honor, may I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Tell me, Miss McCabe, if you recognize those documents that I just handed you.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, this first one looks like a Verizon record of my phone.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And what about the second document?
MS. MCCABE: Um, phone bill. Um, and yes, more records from my phone.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I want to ask you a couple of questions, but before I do, I'd like to have both of those documents marked, respectively, just for identification. I don't anticipate entering M and N into evidence, just for identification. Thank you. May I continue? Thank you. Miss McCabe, you had a number of phone calls with Michael Proctor on January 29th, moving into January 30th and on to the 31st. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Are you asking her to read the records or —
MR. JACKSON: Not yet. I will in just a second.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So, turn the records over. See if you can answer the questions.
MS. MCCABE: Got to look at it.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: You had a number of phone calls with Michael Proctor in the days and hours following the incident. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. I know I had some phone calls. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I'm assuming you don't remember exactly the time and duration of those phone calls as you sit here.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Would it refresh your recollection to look at your phone records that you supplied for this time period?
MS. MCCABE: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: There's two different documents, Miss McCabe. One of them starts with January 29th. Can you grab that document, please?
MS. MCCABE: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You should see some highlights on that document.
MS. MCCABE: I do.
MR. JACKSON: Did you receive a phone call from Michael Proctor at about 10:54 a.m. on January 29th, couple of minutes in length?
MR. BRENNAN: I object — back to the form. Okay. So, you asked her if this would refresh a record. You —
JUDGE CANNONE: Need to ask her if this refreshes a record.
MR. JACKSON: Sure. Do you remember as you sit here a phone call at 10:54 a.m.?
MS. MCCABE: I remember getting a call. I don't remember the exact time.
MR. JACKSON: Would it refresh your recollection to look at the document that you're holding as to the time and date of that phone call?
MS. MCCABE: I see what the document says, but in my head, if you ask me what time did he call you, I don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: Do you have any quarrel with the accuracy of that document?
MS. MCCABE: No, it looks pretty accurate. It looks right. It looks possible. Yeah.
MR. JACKSON: All right. Does that refresh your recollection that you received a phone call from Michael Proctor at about 10:54 in the morning? Does that refresh your memory now?
MS. MCCABE: I know I did receive a phone call from him. Yes. At that time — I don't know the exact time.
MR. JACKSON: All right. So the answer is no. Was it mid-morning?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Did you receive another phone call on the 29th, around — without looking?
JUDGE CANNONE: So this is again — you're asking her a question.
MR. JACKSON: I'm going to go through this with each one of these calls. There's not that many, but a few.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: On the 29th, did you receive a phone call at around 12:49?
MS. MCCABE: I know I received a phone call. I again don't remember the time.
MR. JACKSON: Would it refresh your recollection to look at that document — the next line down, the next phone call from that number?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I see that there's a call on this record.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Is your recollection refreshed that you did receive another phone call on the 29th from Michael Proctor? Do you now remember independently?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember the specific times. No, but I do remember that he did call me. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So there's two phone calls. Easy. Excuse me.
MR. BRENNAN: I only objected to form. I don't object to the record.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So I guess the record is fine, but if you're asking whether she remembers, you're not going to get anywhere, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Well, then I'll just — I'm being told there's no objection to the record. Just the question where you're incorporating several things from —
JUDGE CANNONE: Fine, then. That'll speed things along.
MR. JACKSON: I appreciate the objection, Mr. Brennan.
MR. BRENNAN: Yes, I have no objection to the data coming in.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: I'm just going to speed things along and I appreciate Mr. Brennan's assistance with that. January 29th — you see the record indicates a phone call from Michael Proctor at 10:54 a.m.?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You also see on that same record a phone call on January 29th coming in from Michael Proctor at 12:49 p.m.?
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Moving on down to January 30th, you see a record of a call at 9:51 a.m. from you to Michael Proctor.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: January 30th, about a minute later, you see a phone call from you to Michael Proctor lasting about 22 minutes.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: January 30th, at approximately 4:45 p.m., you see a call from Michael Proctor to you — call lasted about 10 minutes.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Going on to the next day, January 31st, you see a phone call from you to Michael Proctor at 11:51 a.m., just before noon, lasting about 4 minutes.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Take a look at the second document if you will, that covers that time frame. Okay. The second document — you should see some highlights, and I'm going to ask you to start where there's a tab at February 14, 2022.
MS. MCCABE: I don't — is — am I looking at the second one? May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MS. MCCABE: This one?
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Let me see the other document. This one has the February 14th. There you go. Thank you, Miss McCabe. Taking a look at that document. And by the way, for the record, which one is that? M or N?
MS. MCCABE: This is M. M as in Mary.
MR. JACKSON: Mary. Yes. Thank you. Do you see a record of a phone call on February 14th at about 3:55 p.m. lasting about 17 minutes between you and Michael Proctor?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: February 17th at about 5:19 p.m. — is there a record of a call between you and Michael Proctor at that time?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: February 28th at about 12:48 p.m. — is there a record of a call between you and Michael Proctor?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: On the same date, February 28th, do you see a call at 4:34 p.m. with you and Michael Proctor?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: March 1st at 10:16 a.m. — do you see a record of a call between you and Michael Proctor lasting 10 minutes?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: March 1st, you should see two calls — one at 4:51 p.m. and one at 5:06 p.m. Do you see those two calls between you and Michael Proctor?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. One was one minute and the other was two.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. And staying on that same date, at 5:50 p.m., do you see a call on March 1st between you and Michael Proctor lasting about 12 minutes?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And then finally, on March 29th, 2022, do you see a call at about 3:27 p.m. lasting about 4 minutes?
MS. MCCABE: I'm sorry, what was the date?
MR. JACKSON: March 29th.
MS. MCCABE: Oh, okay. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And that's about a 4-minute call at 3:27 in the afternoon.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And that's all I have on those records. Thank you for that, Miss McCabe. You had, in fact — and you had, in fact, met Michael Proctor in person on January 29th, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: He was actually in your home and personally interviewed you.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Not only did you have him in your home, it was for the purpose of a formal interview between the two of you in person. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. That was the time that Brian Albert was there.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. In your home as well.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you had — at least, I think we went through about 14 phone calls with Michael Proctor in just the next days and weeks, going all the way up through February and March. We've just gone over those.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes, there are calls — you're right about the number of calls — but some of them, I don't even know if they were answered.
MR. JACKSON: And of course that may be true, but you were communicating back and forth. Certainly.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. In the weeks and months following.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. And that doesn't include — those records, just for brevity's sake, those records stop in March. But there were more communications in April, May, June, July, August.
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure about that. I don't know. I think initially we communicated, but I'm not sure how long it went. And then I know we started communicating again in the summer of '23, I believe, or April of '23.
MR. JACKSON: So you had spoken with Michael Proctor on the phone many times. We've just gone over those records, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You met him in person on the 29th.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. When he came to interview me at my house, correct?
MR. JACKSON: You just took the words out of my mouth. That was for a formal interview with you, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And it was in your house that you met him for that formal interview.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And that was probably for some time — wasn't a two-minute conversation.
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: Then in September or October of 2023, you were interviewed by Lieutenant Tully.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I have been interviewed by Lieutenant Tully. I don't recall the date.
MR. JACKSON: And you indicated just now that you began picking up conversations with Michael Proctor again in the summer of 2023.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So there were many more communications at that time, just before the September–October time frame of 2023.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, but that was in regards to something different than this case.
MR. JACKSON: Not the subject matter, but you had met him and talked to him more times in the summer of 2023, correct?
MS. MCCABE: I never met with him. I just spoke with him.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. In that interview with Trooper Tully — you were specifically asked about your relationship with Michael Proctor when Trooper Tully sat down with you in that — I think it was a September, or maybe it was an October interview. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember the specifics of the interview.
MR. JACKSON: He asked you specifically whether or not you had met Michael Proctor, whether you had any sort of relationship with Michael Proctor. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure of the specifics of the interview.
MR. JACKSON: Isn't it true that you told Lieutenant Tully that you had — quote — never met Trooper Proctor prior to September of 2023?
MS. MCCABE: No, because Michael Proctor was in my house in January of 2022.
MR. JACKSON: Exactly. The interview with Trooper Tully — just a moment, your honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: The interview with Trooper Tully in that fall of 2023 — where did that take place?
MS. MCCABE: I don't recall.
MR. JACKSON: Do you recall telling Trooper Tully that you had never met Elizabeth Proctor or Michael Proctor prior to September 2023?
MS. MCCABE: No. Would it refresh your recollection if you saw a copy of Lieutenant Tully's report? I don't need to see the report because I know I told him that I met him on January 29th when he came to my house.
MR. JACKSON: So if he wrote "never met before September 2023," that would be an error. Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Ladies and gentlemen, I instructed you on previous questions regarding the same type of thing — whether another witness is lying or not. Disregard the question and move on.
MR. JACKSON: Miss McCabe, if you had told — Trooper Proctor — I'm sorry, Trooper Tully — Lieutenant Tully — that you had never met Trooper Proctor before September of 2023, would that have been a truthful or an untruthful statement?
MS. MCCABE: [unintelligible]
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay, come to sidebar, please.
MR. JACKSON: Next question. May I? Did you tell Trooper Tully — I'm sorry — did you tell Lieutenant Tully — quote — "you had never met Elizabeth Proctor or Michael Proctor prior to September 2023"? End quote.
MS. MCCABE: I had never met Elizabeth Proctor prior —
MR. JACKSON: Well, there was a question. Did you tell Lieutenant Tully that quote? If I can break that quote up, because it's two distinct parts —
JUDGE CANNONE: No, you can't. This question has been asked and answered. Move on, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Do you deny, as you sit here, telling Lieutenant Tully that quote that I just read? Do
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Move along. The question's been answered.
MR. JACKSON: Let's talk for a second about your phone calls to John O'Keefe on January 29th, 2022. I'd like to go through those calls with you briefly if I could. Your honor, this has previously been marked Exhibit 26.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Brennan has a copy if I may.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. You've indicated on direct examination and earlier on cross-examination that you had multiple phone calls to Mr. O'Keefe in the early morning hours of January 29th, 2022.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Those phone calls ranged from about 12:14 a.m. until about 12:50 a.m.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: There was a call at 12:14 and then at 12:18. I'm sorry. I'm bracketing it. The calls — I apologize.
MS. MCCABE: That's okay.
MR. JACKSON: 12:14 all the way to about 12:50.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Are you saying 15?
MS. MCCABE: 50. 50. 50.
MR. JACKSON: Oh, sorry. I apologize. You called John O'Keefe at 12:14 and 31 seconds, lasting about 49 seconds, and that call was answered.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you see that reflected in Exhibit 26. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Going in reverse chronological order on this exhibit, you also see a call at 12:18 and 47 seconds wherein — I'm sorry — John O'Keefe calls your phone, lasting about 36 seconds. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You know that that call was answered even though it says — I'm sorry, it says "unknown" in the document.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. It does say unknown. Yes. That one, two, three, four — fifth column over. That's where it says unknown. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: But it also indicates that that call lasted 36 seconds. So you know it was answered.
MS. MCCABE: I don't know from this record it was answered, but I know from my memory that I spoke to him a second time.
MR. JACKSON: You also made a call — moving to the page before this, starting at the bottom of the page — at 12:29 and 44 seconds, there was a call from you to John O'Keefe's phone lasting 7 seconds.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. That's what it says.
MR. JACKSON: And the record indicates that it was an answered phone call.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. According to the record, it was answered, but I never spoke to him.
MR. JACKSON: You deny speaking to John O'Keefe at 12:29 and 44 seconds.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I never spoke to him after 12:18.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, moving up. 12:41 and 10 seconds. There was a call from you to John O'Keefe's phone indicating that that was missed. You see where it says missed?
MS. MCCABE: I do.
MR. JACKSON: 12:41 and 59 seconds. There was another call from your phone to John's phone and that was also indicated as missed.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: 12:43 and 19 seconds. You called John O'Keefe. That was a missed call.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: 12:46 and 16 seconds. You called John O'Keefe's phone and that was a missed call.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: 12:47 and 52 seconds. You called John O'Keefe's phone and that was a missed call.
MS. MCCABE: I'm sorry, which one was that?
MR. JACKSON: 12:47 and 52 seconds.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: At 12:50 and 37 seconds, you called John O'Keefe's phone and that was a missed call as well.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Miss McCabe, there are seven calls that you indicate you made to John O'Keefe's phone and that were missed. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: According to this record, yes, they were.
MR. JACKSON: That comports with your memory, correct? You indicated that you had called him multiple times that morning and there were missed calls, right?
MS. MCCABE: I called him, but I also think that some of the calls I might have done inadvertently.
MR. JACKSON: Well, we're going to get to that in a second. My question is, that comports with your memory that there were several calls — according to the records, there were several calls made to John O'Keefe's phone, including two calls that you say you spoke to him at 12:14 and 12:18.
MS. MCCABE: I spoke to him at 12:14 and 12:18. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: But you indicate every single call after that was missed, and you deny making those calls?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not denying it. I just don't remember.
MR. JACKSON: You've previously given an explanation for what those calls were. These seven calls that were missed between about 12:29 and about 12:50 — that's 19 minutes. You'll agree.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: If you divide 19 by 7, that's about every 2 and a half minutes, or 2.7 minutes, your phone is calling John O'Keefe's phone.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You've previously explained what you attribute to those phone calls. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What's your explanation?
MS. MCCABE: I think I was going back and forth to the door. I was texting him. I think I put my phone in my pocket. I think I inadvertently maybe called him.
MR. JACKSON: What did you call it at the last hearing?
MS. MCCABE: I believe I called it a butt dial.
MR. JACKSON: And it's not just one butt dial.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. There could be multiple.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. Seven butt dials in the course of 19 minutes. Less than 20 minutes.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. That evening, I wasn't paying attention to butt dials or calls. I was going back and forth, listening to music, being with family. So, if I inadvertently called his phone, I did.
MR. JACKSON: Not inadvertently called him once — seven times.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. According to you.
MR. JACKSON: According to the record. And we only know about these calls because you're looking at an extraction of John O'Keefe's phone.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. But I also turned over my phone, so you could have gotten all of that off of my phone as well.
MR. JACKSON: And you're well aware that an extraction was done on your phone, and not one of those butt dials appears on your phone extraction.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
MR. JACKSON: Are you aware of that?
MS. MCCABE: I am not aware of that.
JUDGE CANNONE: Next question.
MR. JACKSON: Weren't you confronted with that at the last hearing — a year ago — whether or not those phone calls actually exist on your phone?
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember that?
MS. MCCABE: I remember you asking previously.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. When you dial somebody by mistake, it requires several steps, doesn't it?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure. A lot of times I just put my phone down and the next thing I know — I think it's very common to do butt dials.
MR. JACKSON: So, you have an iPhone. Is that right? Or had an iPhone?
MS. MCCABE: I do. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And that iPhone required a biometric or a passcode to get into — to open the phone.
MS. MCCABE: Mine's not open right now.
MR. JACKSON: Right. It's not open.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And your phone required some sort of biometric interaction with the phone, otherwise known as Face ID. Or you put in a code.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes. Or I could have been texting, and then after I texted, the phone was open and I could have accidentally called John. That happens to me all the time.
MR. JACKSON: It also requires you to open the phone app.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: For instance, if you're texting, you're in the text app. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Actually, I'm not. I'd have to sit and look at it.
MR. JACKSON: Well, how often do you make phone calls?
MS. MCCABE: Every day. Every day. Every day.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah. Hundreds of times a day, right?
MS. MCCABE: Not hundreds. Dozens of times a day.
MR. JACKSON: Yeah. You have to open the phone app to make a phone call. You can't call somebody from the texting app. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure. I don't know what to tell you.
MR. JACKSON: There's a list of apps at the bottom of the phone.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Messages, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Yes. And maybe I accidentally hit the last thing — the last call — like since I had talked to John.
MR. JACKSON: At this point I would ask the court to instruct the witness to answer my question.
JUDGE CANNONE: I believe she is. Go ahead and finish.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Miss McCabe, I'm sorry. Jumping the gun.
JUDGE CANNONE: Miss McCabe, answer only the question that's being asked of you.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Miss McCabe, you're aware that when you're in the messaging app, you have to do something else [unintelligible] to open the phone app.
MS. MCCABE: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You have to touch the phone. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That would open a separate app.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Correct. Then once that phone app is open, then you have to choose a person to call. Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Sometimes the last dial, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yeah, if that happens to be the last dial.
MR. JACKSON: Scroll through, pick a person, make one tap, and that calls the person and initiates the call.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. That is one way. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: But if you close your phone — hit the lock button after a text message — none of that can happen without you having to open the phone and engage the phone. Additionally, correct?
MS. MCCABE: If you hit the button to lock it. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Right. So, you indicated that these are all missed calls. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: That's what the records show. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: In addition, you've had missed calls before. You've both received a missed call and you've made calls that were missed. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: When you make a call that's missed, it generally goes to voicemail, does it not?
MS. MCCABE: It does. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So, then you have to do something additional with that call. Push the end button.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Otherwise, voicemails just go on forever.
MS. MCCABE: Actually, they go on for four minutes.
MR. JACKSON: Right. Right.
MS. MCCABE: I don't know how long voicemails go for.
MR. JACKSON: So, if you had missed calls — seven missed calls — that's at least 14 interactions. Double it, because you've got to make the call, then you've got to end the call — 14 interactions with your phone. For one — I'm sorry, for seven missed calls.
MS. MCCABE: It could be. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And your testimony is you don't remember making a single one of those calls to John O'Keefe between 12:29 and 12:50.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I do not remember making those calls. No.
MR. JACKSON: As you sit here, do you deny making those calls between 12:29 and 12:50 to John O'Keefe?
MS. MCCABE: Oh, I'm not denying that. No.
MR. JACKSON: I'd like to ask you a few questions about January 29th — a little further on in the morning, after you got home from 34 Fairview Road. Approximately what time did you get home?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not sure. Maybe around 11:30, 12. I'm not sure.
MR. JACKSON: 11:30 or 12? It could
MS. MCCABE: — be 11.
MR. JACKSON: Are you talking about — I'm confused. Are you talking about — let me rephrase the question.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Sorry. On the early morning hours of January 29th, 2022, when you left — oh, I'm sorry. When did you get home that day?
MS. MCCABE: I was after 2, I believe. I'm not positive.
MR. JACKSON: You went upstairs. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You began to engage with your phone.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: At that time, what application did you open up on your phone once you got upstairs?
MS. MCCABE: Uh, it could have been Hockomock Sports.
MR. JACKSON: I'm sorry. I'm backing up foundationally. What application on the phone was it? Safari?
MS. MCCABE: Oh, okay. Yes. I think — yes.
MR. JACKSON: You used Safari as your browser.
MR. JACKSON: You opened up a search engine as well within that browser, did you not?
MS. MCCABE: I'm not. I just know I Googled Hockomock Sports, I believe. I'm not sure what app I opened or how I went about it.
MR. JACKSON: So, Google is a search engine. You use Google possibly.
MS. MCCABE: I mean, that's just an expression, but I'm not — if you could show my record, I'm not sure what app I opened.
MR. JACKSON: Well, Miss McCabe, you've seen this record many, many times about that search early in the morning hours. Correct. You know that it was a Google search.
MS. MCCABE: It was Google. Okay. It was a Google search. Okay.
MR. JACKSON: So, it was a Google search using the Safari app. Okay. You indicated that you were Google searching Hockomock Sports and something about Ozone.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Ozone Sports or Ozone basketball? Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What time was it that you did that Google search?
MS. MCCABE: It was when I was home up in bed. I don't have an exact time.
MR. JACKSON: About 2:27 a.m. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I'd have to look at a record. I don't recall off the top of my head.
MR. JACKSON: You recall that time frame, don't you?
MS. MCCABE: I know I was home and I Googled that, but I don't remember the exact time.
MR. JACKSON: You do recognize 2:27 a.m.
MS. MCCABE: I do recognize it, but it's not from me remembering it from that night specifically. It's from me learning afterwards.
MR. JACKSON: And what you learned afterwards was there was a Google search at 2:27 a.m., right? I mean, that's a layup — to use a basketball term, right? There's a record, I think, of one, right? The record is of a Google search at 2:27 a.m. on your phone. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I don't — I'm not a phone expert, so I don't know. I can't read —
MR. JACKSON: You're well aware. You don't have to be a phone expert to know that there was a Google search on your phone recovered at 2:27 in the morning. You know that. You've been told that. You've seen it. You've been asked about it dozens of times, haven't you?
MS. MCCABE: I have been asked about it dozens of times. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So, let's set the foundation. There was a Google search on your phone at 2:27 a.m. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: Which Google search are you referring to?
MR. JACKSON: It doesn't matter, Miss McCabe.
MS. MCCABE: Well, I know I did Ozone and I did Hockomock Sports and those were the only two things that I Googled.
MR. JACKSON: I didn't ask you what you Googled. I haven't gotten there yet. We're going to get there. I've asked you, was there a Google search at 2:27 a.m. on your phone?
MS. MCCABE: If you want to show me a report.
MR. JACKSON: Sure. Okay. As you sit here, you don't remember that. You have no record. You have nothing in your mind about a Google search at 2:27 a.m. That's what you're testifying to in front of this jury right now.
MS. MCCABE: Are you asking me if I made a Google search at 2:27? I don't know what time I was searching for Hockomock Sports and Ozone. I have no idea what time that was.
MR. JACKSON: You're well aware that your records have been pulled, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, they have.
MR. JACKSON: You've touched with those records many times, haven't you?
MS. MCCABE: I've been asked by you. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And by others, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I mean, the police have asked you about it. You've been interviewed about it.
MS. MCCABE: I've been asked by you.
MR. JACKSON: And Mr. Lally?
MS. MCCABE: Yeah. Mr. Lally asked about it. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And every time you're asked, it's about a Google search at 2:27 a.m. That's all I'm asking.
MS. MCCABE: It is, but it's not one that I remember doing or making or did. It's not one I did. It's just one that is in a record that was misread.
MR. JACKSON: Are you denying that you made a Google search at 2:27 a.m.?
MS. MCCABE: If you could show me this Google search, I'd appreciate it.
MR. JACKSON: I have a moment. Yes. Your honor, I need a quick minute to find a record.
MS. MCCABE: interjecting — that I did not make.
MR. BRENNAN: Can we take a brief recess? Five minutes?
MR. BRENNAN: I'll see to it. I will, if Miss Little wants to keep looking —
JUDGE CANNONE: We're trying not to have you take a recess. So, the lawyers are just going to get something done fairly quickly so that we can continue up until the luncheon.
PARENTHETICAL: [unclear]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Thank you. Found the paper. Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Your honor, may I?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Miss McCabe. I don't have a paper copy, but I'm going to ask you to take a look at something that we display on the screen, okay? And ask you a couple of questions about that. Can you zoom in?
MR. BRENNAN: I object to the way it's presented here. Okay. Take it down. That's not how it appears. You need to get rid of a column.
MR. JACKSON: That's exactly how it appears, Your Honor. That's the record. That's the counsel.
JUDGE CANNONE: Go ahead.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you for your patience, Your Honor. And Miss McCabe, may I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you. May I approach you?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You indicated you wanted to see a record, Miss McCabe. Did you see a record that indicated a Google search? Not what the contents of the Google search is, but there was a Google search.
MS. MCCABE: I just saw a Cellebrite record. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And did you see the time of the Google search on that record?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Is it
MR. JACKSON: 2:27 a.m.?
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Ultimately, you will agree that there was a Google search done. And now I'm going to ask about the content of "how long to die in cold."
MS. MCCABE: Correct. That was done in the morning at the request of Miss Read.
MR. JACKSON: Miss McCabe, I didn't ask you that. I asked you a yes or no question. Did you understand my question?
MS. MCCABE: Could you repeat it, please?
MR. JACKSON: Sure, I'd be happy to. Thank you. Did that record indicate that there was a search at some point for "how long to die in cold"?
MR. BRENNAN: I'd object to the record.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: So, was there a search on that at some point on that paper? Was there a search that said that? Is that the question? Let's start with that.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Yeah, there was.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Now, let me ask you a different question. You Google searched the phrase "how long to die in cold." Yes or no?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: On January 29th, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: So, you agree that you were on Google, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You agree that there was a search done at 2:27 a.m.?
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I don't recall doing a search at 2:27. The paper says it. I don't.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. And you also agree that at some point that morning, you typed into that phone "how long to die in cold." Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. After we found John O'Keefe.
MR. JACKSON: Now you claim that that was at 6:23 and at 6:24 in the morning. Two iterations of "how long to die in the cold" — "how long to die in cold," "how long to die in cold."
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I'm not claiming it. It's the truth. It's what happened.
MR. JACKSON: You're testifying to that.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I am.
MR. JACKSON: You also testified that at the time you Google searched those phrases, it was Karen Read screaming and yelling at you, shaking you to Google hypothermia. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: She was pulling on my sleeve. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Yes or no?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. You have discussed this Google search and the issue of the hypothermia with Kerry Roberts. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: I told her in the days following.
MR. JACKSON: You discussed it, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You discussed it in the days following January 29th, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You discussed it before her testimony at the grand jury. Correct.
MS. MCCABE: We discussed it after. We both — we don't talk about what we're going to say before testifying or anything like that.
MR. JACKSON: Three months between this incident and the testimony by both you and Miss Roberts. You two did not discuss this hypothermia issue.
MS. MCCABE: It wasn't an issue. It was just something she said. But we don't discuss it every day. There's no need to.
MR. JACKSON: I didn't ask you to discuss it every day. I asked you if you ever discussed it originally.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, we did discuss it in the first days following all of this.
MR. JACKSON: And that would have been before either one of you testified at the grand jury, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And we know that you were with her — sorry — just before her testimony at the grand jury. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you're certainly aware that at the grand jury, in prior testimony, Kerry Roberts corroborated your statement that Karen Read demanded to Google hypothermia.
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Ask it differently, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: Are you aware that Kerry Roberts — well, let me ask you a different way. Have you and Kerry Roberts ever discussed the fact that she corroborated your statement that Karen Read demanded that you Google hypothermia?
MS. MCCABE: She told you that?
MR. JACKSON: No. Did you ever ask her that?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: Did you discuss your statement that Karen Read was the one that demanded that search?
MS. MCCABE: Karen Read did ask me to do the search. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. That's not what I asked you. Did you and Kerry Roberts discuss that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, we've talked about that.
MR. JACKSON: Are you aware that last week Kerry Roberts denied hearing that statement?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Have you been told — have you been updated — that last week Kerry Roberts denied ever having heard that statement?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. May we approach?
MR. JACKSON: Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: Feel free to stand up and stretch. at sidebar So, just one question on this. Just one question on this, please. Mr. Jackson, have you become aware from any source that last week Kerry Roberts —
MR. JACKSON: Denied having heard the statement that was attributable to my client?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: You hear that?
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: You've reviewed the video from the dash cam out at the scene.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I've seen it. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You're aware that there is no video showing my client demanding a Google search anywhere in this case?
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I'm not sure what cam — you know, what cameras were there.
MR. JACKSON: You're aware that there's no audio of my client demanding a Google search.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: You're unaware of any witness — any witness who can corroborate your statement that my client demanded a Google search? Any witness at all?
MS. MCCABE: It was just the two of us. She had sent Kerry off.
MR. JACKSON: So, of course, Kerry Roberts is not such a corroborating witness. Is that right? At least, do you understand that?
MS. MCCABE: Can you rephrase the question, please?
MR. JACKSON: Kerry Roberts is not a corroborating witness for you. You understand that? You just said that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Kerry, I don't believe, heard it. She was sent off.
MR. JACKSON: So, it's your word and your word only, Miss McCabe, that my client demanded a Google search. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Miss McCabe, you were with Kerry Roberts just before her grand jury testimony. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Uh, yes.
MR. JACKSON: You had been with her to create a timeline of a version of events that occurred.
MS. MCCABE: I wouldn't say a version of events. We each put down what we remembered.
MR. JACKSON: She saw what you put down. You saw what she put down.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you compared and contrasted those with each other to create that timeline.
MS. MCCABE: No, we didn't compare and contrast. I said she called me. She said this thing then, Kerry. And someone was writing it down for us.
MR. JACKSON: That would be your sister.
MS. MCCABE: Who? It was my sister. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Which sister?
MS. MCCABE: My sister Denise.
MR. JACKSON: What's your last name?
MS. MCCABE: Galvin.
MR. JACKSON: Is she here?
MS. MCCABE: She is here. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Where is she?
MS. MCCABE: She's sitting over there.
MR. JACKSON: Can you point to her and describe what she's wearing?
MS. MCCABE: Sure. She's over there in the back with the striped shirt on between the gentleman in the purple and the gentleman in the black.
MR. JACKSON: Yes. So, she witnessed this timeline being prepared.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. She wrote the timeline. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And then you've spoken to Miss Roberts several times about this case.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And about your perceptions of this case.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. We talk about what happened and the aftermath of this case. We don't talk about the specific details as much as we talk about the aftermath of everything.
MR. JACKSON: Miss McCabe, the fact is you instructed Kerry Roberts to say that she heard that Google hypothermia statement from my client before she testified at the grand jury, didn't you?
MS. MCCABE: No, absolutely not. I never instructed her to do anything.
MR. JACKSON: You wanted some witness to back up your story about this Google search.
MS. MCCABE: No, absolutely not. I don't — it was said. Karen said it. It's that simple.
MR. JACKSON: So, you're the only person saying that though.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. And I stand by that 110%.
MR. JACKSON: And the reason that you wanted another witness to back up that statement is because you knew that that Google search for "how long to die in cold" points a very uncomfortable finger right toward you.
MS. MCCABE: No. I never did that search at 2:27. I never needed to instruct somebody. It's — no. I'm sorry. You are —
MR. JACKSON: There's that apology again. Has someone told you that you need to apologize when there's an uncomfortable question that you don't want to answer?
MS. MCCABE: No.
PARENTHETICAL: [objection basis unclear]
MR. JACKSON: Have you discussed this with anybody?
MS. MCCABE: No. And that's not an uncomfortable question. I'm fine to answer it.
MR. JACKSON: How many times did you apologize yesterday in cross-examination?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't count.
MR. JACKSON: Probably more than 15, right?
MS. MCCABE: I have no idea. I'm just trying to answer the questions and be as truthful as I can.
MR. JACKSON: And you're aware that the Cellebrite extraction that was done on your phone determined that of the three searches — 2:27 a.m., 6:23 a.m., 6:24 a.m. — only one of them was recorded as deleted.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. OBJECTION.
MR. JACKSON: Have you ever been confronted with having deleted a Google search off your phone? You ever been asked that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. By you.
MR. JACKSON: Do you deny that you deleted a Google search off your phone?
MS. MCCABE: I never deleted a Google search off my phone.
MR. JACKSON: So you deny —
MS. MCCABE: I never did that. I deny it. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That you ever deleted a Google search?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. I never made the search.
MR. JACKSON: I'd like to move back to the time of about 6:03 in the morning, Miss McCabe. When you, along with Kerry Roberts and Miss Read, approached 34 Fairview. This is Exhibit 4. It's been previously entered into evidence and I think you've seen part of this exhibit. Do you recall — before we get to the exhibit — do you recall my client when the first officer on scene — do you know his name, by the way?
MS. MCCABE: I believe it was Officer Saraf.
MR. JACKSON: When Officer Saraf approached, he asked the question, "What happened?" Something like that. Open-ended question. Do you remember that?
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember what he specifically said.
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. JACKSON: Could you hear that?
MR. JACKSON: Do you remember my client, a few seconds later, saying, "My boyfriend, I left him. He never came home."
MS. MCCABE: I don't remember the specifics of what was said.
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor, if we could, I would ask that we cue up Exhibit 4 for the jurors at runtime 4:20.
JUDGE CANNONE: Right.
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays again]
MR. JACKSON: Could you hear it?
MR. JACKSON: Before we play this, I'm going to play just a second of it and ask if you can hear the volume.
MS. MCCABE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Woll, could you hear anything?
MR. JACKSON: Okay. I don't know how loud it's going to be, quite frankly. Okay. Miss McCabe, will you please pay attention to the audio portion of this video as this is played?
MS. MCCABE: I heard something.
MR. JACKSON: Could you hear my client?
MS. MCCABE: It sounded like Miss Read. It sounded like a female.
MR. JACKSON: Did it sound like Miss Read?
MS. MCCABE: A female? I'm not sure. I could — Could I listen to it again?
MR. JACKSON: With the court's permission, one more time.
MS. MCCABE: I could hear it. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What did she say?
MS. MCCABE: I have no idea.
MR. JACKSON: Did she say, "My boyfriend, I left him and he never came home."
MS. MCCABE: I could not make that out.
MR. JACKSON: You testified on direct examination that you were basically a passenger along in this ride on the early morning hours of January 29th, 2022. That you were not the person in charge.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I was in the passenger seat and Miss Roberts was driving.
MR. JACKSON: It's a bad question on my part. Let me see if I can reframe that. You testified that it was Kerry Roberts who was basically the take-charge person in the scenario between and among the three of you — you, Miss Read, and Miss Roberts.
MS. MCCABE: Yes. Yes.
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. JACKSON: Pause it, please. Can you see who it appears you're talking to at that point?
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. JACKSON: Pause it. Does it appear that you're engaged in conversation with that person while Miss Roberts is attending to something in the truck and Miss Read is running back and forth?
MR. JACKSON: Not you.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. No.
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Woll, if you'll stop it at 7:41, please. Could you see what was depicted in the video for about that minute and 10-second runtime?
MR. JACKSON: You were just sort of along for the ride, assisting how you could.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I was looking — I was trying to help Miss Read and find John O'Keefe.
MR. JACKSON: If we could play a clip — I'm going to ask you, Miss McCabe, to take a look at several clips. The first one starting at 6:21 runtime to 7:41. It's just over a minute, with the court's permission.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Pause this. Do you recognize the three individuals in the foreground of this video?
MS. MCCABE: I do. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Can you start from left to right and describe for the jurors who we're looking at?
MS. MCCABE: I believe that's me in the black coat. To the right of me is Miss Roberts, and on the other side of the car is Miss Read.
MR. JACKSON: Miss Roberts — just to distinguish — Miss Roberts seemed to have fur on her hood where you did not.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You can go ahead and play that, please.
MS. MCCABE: I don't know who that is. No.
MR. JACKSON: Go ahead and play it.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I was speaking to whoever that was.
MR. JACKSON: Do you believe that was a police officer?
MS. MCCABE: I believe yes.
MR. JACKSON: Go ahead, play it.
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Did it appear that you were engaged in conversation with that other person?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
PARENTHETICAL: [video plays]
MR. JACKSON: In that video clip, who among the three of you appears to be most engaged with law enforcement at that time? Can you answer that, Miss Read — I mean, can you answer that, Miss McCabe?
MR. JACKSON: When that other person walked away, could you see his jacket?
MS. MCCABE: I couldn't make it out.
MR. JACKSON: Now, did it appear that he was a police officer?
MS. MCCABE: I'm going to assume it was a police officer. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. In that video, who looks most like she is taking charge — you or Kerry Roberts? OBJECTION.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Does it appear in that video that you're the one controlling the narrative, at least with law enforcement at that point? OBJECTION.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Does it appear in that video that you're the one engaging in conversation with law enforcement while Kerry Roberts and Miss Read are otherwise occupied?
MS. MCCABE: I am speaking with law enforcement. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Can we move to runtime 8:56? Pause it. Can you see yourself in that video?
MS. MCCABE: I can. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Which person are you?
MS. MCCABE: I'm in the far right speaking to someone. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Who's that you're speaking to?
MS. MCCABE: I can't make it out, but it looks like a police officer possibly.
MR. JACKSON: And Miss Roberts is directly in the middle of the screen. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I thought that was Miss Read, but I could be wrong.
MR. JACKSON: Let's go ahead and play it. And at 9:26 you'll stop, please.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I can. I was speaking to police officers. Yes, I was trying to help them.
MR. JACKSON: Can we go to runtime 10:49? This will be from 10:49 to 11:55. Mr. Woll, pause it. Who is it that's just gesticulating in the video?
MS. MCCABE: That is me.
MR. JACKSON: Can we go ahead and play it? Did you see yourself in that video? That clip, about a minute-long clip?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I did.
MR. JACKSON: Who among the three of you appeared to be most engaged with law enforcement in that clip?
MS. MCCABE: I was. [unintelligible] Mr. Woll,
MR. JACKSON: Stop it. Do you see yourself in that video?
MS. MCCABE: I do. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You just walked in from frame right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: From frame right going left?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Behind Miss Roberts. Okay. And that's you right in the middle of the screen.
MS. MCCABE: Yes, it is.
MR. JACKSON: And Miss Roberts had already run through, went to her SUV, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Go ahead and play. This is about a two-minute clip for the court's edification. All right. And this is the last of them. Well, can you pause it? Can you tell who you're speaking to there?
MS. MCCABE: I think it's Sgt. Lank.
MR. JACKSON: Let's go ahead and play it. Yeah, just a moment. Miss McCabe, who was most engaged in that clip with law enforcement, among you and Kerry Roberts and Miss Read?
MS. MCCABE: I was.
MR. JACKSON: You noticed when Mr. O'Keefe was placed on the gurney in a prior clip and moved past you. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Did you notice what your reaction was when that gurney passed you?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't know.
MR. JACKSON: Did you see that you turned your back completely as he passed by?
MS. MCCABE: If that happened, it wasn't on purpose.
MR. JACKSON: Ms. McCabe, when you got to the scene — we can take that down — when you got to the scene at 6:03 in the morning, you immediately recognized, did you not, that this was an emergency
MS. MCCABE: Situation. High-intensity emergency situation. Correct. I knew it was an emergency situation. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: As a matter of fact, a man's life was in grave danger. You knew that?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, I did.
MR. JACKSON: And this is someone that was a friend of yours, correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes. He was a dear friend.
MR. JACKSON: Not just a friend, but a police officer who was laying, as far as you knew, dying in the snow. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You knew that you needed to get immediate medical attention, emergency medical attention to him as quickly as you possibly could. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You knew that minutes counted, right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You knew that seconds counted.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: This man was, as far as you knew, grasping and clinging to life at that moment. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: That's why you called 911 to get emergency personnel who are trained in CPR and life-saving measures to the scene — to Mr. O'Keefe — as quickly as you possibly could. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You called 911 at about 6:03 and 35 seconds. Is that right? I don't expect you to know down to the second, but it was about a couple of minutes after 6.
MS. MCCABE: Right after — yeah, we found him. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you're aware from the dash cam that Officer Saraf got there about 6:10, almost on the nose, right?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't pay attention to the time.
MR. JACKSON: You'll agree with me that it was about 6 and a half minutes or so between the time you called 911 and the time Officer Saraf got there. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: If that's what the dash cam says. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: On that 911 call, you referred to John O'Keefe as "a man passed out in the snow."
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't say this is my friend —
MS. MCCABE: I needed to get, like you said, emergency there. So I wasn't going to give a — I wasn't going to give a description and say, "My friend is in the snow." I was going to give them the information that I thought was the most important at the time.
MR. JACKSON: Did you say his name?
MS. MCCABE: I just said "a man" because that was the most important identifying —
MR. JACKSON: You didn't say John.
MS. MCCABE: Eventually in the 911, I do say his name.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't initially say O'Keefe, correct?
MS. MCCABE: No, none of that matters. It was a man in the snow and I wanted help there.
MR. JACKSON: And you didn't say he's a Boston police officer or an off-duty police officer.
MS. MCCABE: Again, a man needed help.
MR. JACKSON: Yes or no? Did you say that?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't.
MR. JACKSON: Yes or no? Do you think that might have sped things up if the 911 operator knew that this was a fallen officer, a fellow officer?
MS. MCCABE: I think 911 comes to everyone equally. I don't think they would have —
MR. JACKSON: Do you think that might have been something important to relay to the 911 officials?
MS. MCCABE: I don't know.
MR. JACKSON: You were even asked by the 911 operator, "Does anybody know CPR?" And your answer was no. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: I'd have to listen to it to remember my exact answers. But it was basically in the negative. No, we're not professionals. We're just out here doing the best we can. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: I wouldn't say that. No?
MS. MCCABE: I wouldn't say that. No.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't believe Karen Read knew CPR?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't know. I don't think I answered that question. I don't think it was asked.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't know if Kerry Roberts knew CPR?
MS. MCCABE: Correct. I didn't know if they knew CPR. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And none of you are paramedics.
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: None of you are first responders.
MS. MCCABE: No.
MR. JACKSON: None of you are trained in emergency life-saving techniques in any way.
MS. MCCABE: Correct. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: I have a question, Miss McCabe.
MS. MCCABE: Mm-hmm.
MR. JACKSON: On all of Fairview, the entire road between Chapman and Cedarcrest, can you think of any person on that road who might have had life-saving techniques trained into them? A first responder, someone who knew how to deal with someone in distress, someone with high skill-level training. Do you think of anyone on Fairview who had that kind of training?
MS. MCCABE: Can I now, or did I then? Which are you asking?
MR. JACKSON: Did you then?
MS. MCCABE: No. Then my focus was on John O'Keefe.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, let me narrow the focus. How about on the property? How about at 34 Fairview? Could you think of anyone that was a first responder who would have life-saving training, life-saving technique training under his belt?
MS. MCCABE: Yes, my brother-in-law, Brian Albert.
MR. JACKSON: And you didn't go in the house, did you?
MS. MCCABE: No, I did not.
MR. JACKSON: When you arrived at the scene, you didn't go in.
MS. MCCABE: Not until much later. Correct. Our focus was John.
MR. JACKSON: You knew that Brian Albert was inside the house. You'd just been with him hours earlier. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: You knew that his window was 30 feet away. You were staring at it. You could look at it if you wanted to. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: It's off to an angle.
MR. JACKSON: And you didn't go in the house then either.
MS. MCCABE: I did not.
MR. JACKSON: You knew that John O'Keefe was clinging to life during those precious minutes and seconds. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I did. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: And you also knew that Brian Albert, your brother-in-law, was a first responder trained to deal with people in that kind of distress. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: In that moment, my only thoughts were John and everything we could do for John.
MR. JACKSON: And you knew that there were warm blankets inside the house. Is that right?
MS. MCCABE: I did. Yes, there were warm blankets in the house.
MR. JACKSON: And you still never went in, did you?
MS. MCCABE: No, I went and attended to John because once I finished calling 911, I went over to John and Kerry Roberts asked me to take over compressions. So I felt like that was more important and 911 was on the way. I never thought about going in the house. I just thought, how can I help John?
MR. JACKSON: You never thought about going in the house, but you did pull out your cell phone and make two phone calls, did you?
MS. MCCABE: After I called 911, I tried calling my sister. Yes.
MR. JACKSON: While John was out in the cold clinging to life, you weren't doing chest compressions at 6:07 and 6:08, were you?
MS. MCCABE: I was walking over when I was calling.
MR. JACKSON: You were calling your sister on the phone, weren't you?
MS. MCCABE: I was calling them to see if they would come out, but I was going right over to work on him.
MR. JACKSON: And you could have walked 25 feet to the front door, walked in the house and screamed for Brian Albert to come out and help in those precious seconds and minutes, couldn't you?
MS. MCCABE: That would have taken me away from helping John, getting Kerry blankets, giving him compressions, and making those two very important phone calls, 6:07 and 6:08, that you say were not answered. Correct.
MR. JACKSON: They were not important phone calls.
MS. MCCABE: I tried to call my sister and then I focused on John.
MR. JACKSON: They were not important phone calls, but they were important enough for you to make while John is clinging to life right there in front of you.
MS. MCCABE: Right. As I was walking over, I called to see if she would answer. And she didn't answer.
MR. JACKSON: Let's talk about that. She didn't answer according to you. So if we're going to talk about it, we're well — we're beyond the lunch break. Your honor, I have two more questions.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: And I'll wrap it. Okay. Let's talk about that real quick.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure.
MR. JACKSON: She didn't answer the phone, did she?
MS. MCCABE: No, she didn't.
MR. JACKSON: So you have a situation where a man is laying dead or dying in the front yard of your sister's house. You see nothing in terms of life inside the house. Lights aren't coming on. They're not getting up. They're certainly not coming outside. Right?
MS. MCCABE: They were sound asleep.
MR. JACKSON: They weren't coming outside, were they?
MS. MCCABE: Because they were asleep.
MR. JACKSON: You didn't know if they were asleep. All you knew was there was a severely injured man on the front lawn of their house and your sister didn't answer the phone. Not once but twice. Correct?
MS. MCCABE: Correct. She didn't answer the phone.
MR. JACKSON: Did you think your sister might have been in peril? Did you think to go inside the house and check that they're okay?
MS. MCCABE: I had no reason to think that they weren't okay.
MR. JACKSON: You had no reason to believe they weren't okay. A man was dead or dying on their lawn and your sister's not answering the phone. And nobody is coming out to the chaos of Karen Read screaming on the [unintelligible]. You didn't think there was some reason to believe they could have been in peril?
MS. MCCABE: I didn't, because your client was screaming she hit him. She had a cracked tail light. She was crying, "She hit him." I didn't. But my focus— Can I finish, please?
MR. JACKSON: You had solved the crime right then and there. You solved the whole case.
MS. MCCABE: No, I didn't. I knew John never came in the house, so I had no concern for anyone's safety inside the house.
MR. JACKSON: The reason you didn't go inside the house is because you knew better. You knew better. You knew she wasn't in peril. You knew that Brian Albert wasn't in peril. You weren't worried at all about them, were you?
MS. MCCABE: I was not worried at all because something happened on the front lawn that had nothing to do with anything inside that house.
MR. JACKSON: You weren't worried about them at all because you knew what really happened, didn't you?
MS. MCCABE: At that moment, I didn't know that he was hit by a vehicle and there was tail light found next to him.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, jurors. Lunch break. Let's take this. How long?
MR. JACKSON: That is a textbook example of what we've just seen — witnesses colluding with one another about a subject matter that's under investigation. Correct?
MR. BRENNAN: I move for an instruction.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Jurors, disregard that comment. Completely disregard that question.
MR. JACKSON: Your honor, may we approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.