Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveDaniel Whitley - Cross (Part 2)/Redirect
208 linesCOURT OFFICER: Please — court is in session. 22117, Commonwealth versus Karen Read.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So, I was told counsel wanted to see me.
PARENTHETICAL: [counsel]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Good morning, your honor. Yes. Just have one brief issue to raise for the court. I wanted to confirm whether experts in this case are permitted to watch testimony in order to prepare for rebuttal. We've asked for that for rebuttal — like, for responding. For responding. Okay. In any case, for both sides. Okay. What's your position, Miss Little?
MS. LITTLE: You want to? Yes.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Mr. Brennan, is there any reason not to?
MR. BRENNAN: I need to give it some thought. I'm not willing to agree. I'll abide by whatever the court thinks is fair.
JUDGE CANNONE: So, why don't you think about it? We'll address it later today. Okay. There's no expert testimony today, right?
MR. BRENNAN: There's not.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Thank you. All right. Sure. Is that it? Ready to bring the jury in?
MR. BRENNAN: That's all. You wanted a ruling on the clip from yesterday?
JUDGE CANNONE: I did. All right. You can play it.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So, we'll take a quick break.
COURT CLERK: Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye, all persons having anything to do before the honorable Beverly Cannone, the justice of the superior court now holding in Dedham within and for the county of Norfolk. Draw near. Give your attendance and you shall be heard. God save the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. This court is in session. Please be seated. 22117, the Commonwealth versus Karen Read.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Good morning again, counsel. Good morning, Miss Read. Good morning, jurors. I have to ask you those same three questions. Were you all able to follow the instructions and refrain from discussing this case with anyone since we were here yesterday? Everyone said yes and nodded affirmatively. Were you also able to follow the instructions and refrain from doing any independent research or investigation into this case? Everyone said yes and nodded affirmatively. Did anyone happen to see, hear, or read anything about this case since we left here yesterday? Everyone said no or shook — Thank you very much.
JUDGE CANNONE: Can we bring Mr. Whitley back in, please. Mr. Yannetti, you can step up to the podium. Thank you very much. Sir, I'll remind you you're still under oath. Thank you. Yes, Mr. Whitley.
MR. YANNETTI: Yesterday you testified that when Karen Read was brought to the hospital, she didn't want to get into a hospital gown and she didn't want to give a urine sample. Do you recall that testimony?
MR. WHITLEY: I do.
MR. YANNETTI: It was clear to you that her reluctance to cooperate at that time was because she very much wanted to check on John's progress and status at the hospital. Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: No, I don't believe that to be the case.
MR. YANNETTI: Well, you testified before the grand jury regarding this matter 3 years ago, didn't you?
MR. WHITLEY: I don't believe I said that she was —
MR. YANNETTI: I didn't ask you that question. You testified before the grand jury 3 years ago, didn't you?
MR. WHITLEY: I testified before the grand jury 3 years ago.
MR. YANNETTI: You were under oath then as you're under oath today.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Correct. You swore to tell the truth.
MR. WHITLEY: I am telling the truth.
MR. YANNETTI: You swore to tell the truth in 2022 before the grand jury, did you not?
MR. WHITLEY: I did.
MR. YANNETTI: That was less than 3 months after you brought Karen Read to the hospital, wasn't it?
MR. WHITLEY: Yeah.
MR. YANNETTI: And your memory of what happened at the hospital was very good in April of 2022, right?
MR. WHITLEY: As good as today.
MR. YANNETTI: Your memory in April of 2022 was very good, wasn't it?
MR. WHITLEY: It was very good as it is today.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So, you want to add the "as it is today" despite the fact that you weren't asked that question. Is that right?
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. YANNETTI: All right. When questioned by Mr. Lally at the grand jury, you were asked the following question: "So, what if any interaction did you have with her" — meaning Miss Read — "at the hospital once you were there?" You remember that question, right?
MR. WHITLEY: I do.
MR. YANNETTI: And your answer was: "So, after that I helped escort her down to — they call it the psych hallway — where they have rooms set up for psychiatric patients for their evaluation, and then she was unhappy that she wasn't able to see him" — meaning John — "and she kept trying to — she didn't want to get into a hospital gown, she didn't want to — I believe — give a urine sample, she was not — the nurses were asking her to do certain things that every patient has to do, and she was not cooperating with them." Do you remember that answer?
MR. WHITLEY: I do.
MR. YANNETTI: So 3 years ago when you testified about this issue of giving a urine sample, you testified under oath that you believed that she didn't want to give a urine sample. Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Yesterday, 3 years later, you testified with certainty that she didn't want to give them. Right.
MR. WHITLEY: Yeah. She was giving them a hard time about having to give a urine sample.
MR. YANNETTI: Right. No — I'm asking you about your testimony yesterday in contrast to the grand jury, sir. To the extent that I ask a yes or no question, I'd like yes or no answers. So, no —
JUDGE CANNONE: No instructions to the witness, Mr. Yannetti. Ask a question. [To witness:] Be instructed to answer the question yes or no if it calls for a yes or no question. Answer the question that's asked of you.
MR. WHITLEY: Okay.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. So, go ahead. Ask a question.
MR. YANNETTI: You testified yesterday that she didn't want to give a urine sample without saying it was your belief that she didn't want to give one. Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: In any case, were you aware that when she was asked to give a urine sample, Ms. Read had gotten her period and did not have a tampon?
MR. WHITLEY: I was aware she was on her period. Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You're also aware that when somebody is brought to the hospital for a section 12, they have no privacy. Isn't that right?
MR. WHITLEY: They have medical privacy. The either the tech or the nurse would be with the patient at all times.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. With them at all times, observing them. Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: So — she wasn't in like a hallway open to the public. Understood, sir. But when I said privacy, what I was asking is: she was not allowed to go to the bathroom alone — correct — to give a urine sample. Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: She was a psychiatric patient.
MR. YANNETTI: Right. So she would have to use the bathroom in front of hospital personnel — some medical personnel — with people watching her — while she was on her period with no tampon. Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: I would understand that to be true.
MR. YANNETTI: All right. And you're aware that she did cooperate and eventually give a blood sample as well. Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: I'm not aware of a blood sample, but — urine sample. Yes, she did give the urine sample. Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Now, in your testimony yesterday of what Karen Read may have asked you about John surviving in the snow with light clothing — you remember those questions?
MR. WHITLEY: John surviving in the snow with light clothing. You remember those questions? I remember asking about not having a jacket. Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Now, starting at the end of the day, when I cross-examined you yesterday, I asked you about that topic and I said to you: "You mentioned something about hypothermia — that you assumed you may have been dealing with the hypothermia situation" — and your answer was, "Well, she said that he had been out in the snow without a jacket for many hours." Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: But before I cross-examined you at the end of the day yesterday, you previously testified three times about this topic. Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: I believe it would be the grand jury and the previous trial, right?
MR. YANNETTI: And direct examination when Mr. Brennan was asking you questions before I stood up.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. Yes. Let's start with the first time you testified about this topic back in 2022. That was again less than three months after you had a conversation with Ms. Read at the scene on January 29th. Correct.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Her statements and questions to you at the scene were fresh in your mind in April of 2022.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: In April of 2022, before the grand jury, ADA Lally asked you, quote, "What if any questions did she ask you regarding hypothermia?" Do you remember that question?
MR. WHITLEY: I do.
MR. YANNETTI: Your answer was, "She was just wondering if he could have survived outside in the cold even though he didn't have a jacket on." Do you remember giving that answer?
MR. WHITLEY: I do.
MR. YANNETTI: Nowhere in that answer in 2022, less than three months after these events, do you attribute the words quote many hours end quote in the snow to Ms. Read?
MR. WHITLEY: Correct. Uh, yes. I was not—
MR. YANNETTI: I'm not asking for an explanation, sir. I'm asking for an answer.
MR. BRENNAN: All right. So, he was answering you, Mr.—
MR. YANNETTI: My question called for a yes or no answer. Nowhere in your answer in 2022 do you attribute the words many hours in the snow to Ms. Read? Yes or no?
MR. WHITLEY: No. I did not say that at that point.
MR. YANNETTI: Nowhere in your answer in 2022, do you testify that Ms. Read told you he had actually been in the snow for many hours?
MR. WHITLEY: Correct. She did.
MR. YANNETTI: Sir, I'm asking you about your testimony.
MR. BRENNAN: I object. Let him answer the question.
MR. YANNETTI: Let me ask it again. Nowhere in your answer in 2022 did you testify that Ms. Read told you he had actually been in the snow for many hours.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct. In 2022, I testified that — I was just told to be brief and give generalizations. She quantified many hours in the snow when we were back.
JUDGE CANNONE: Let me — let me try this again. So, Yannetti, you're just saying 2022. Get to a date and a place. April of 2022. Okay. Before the grand jury. My question again, and I'm still seeking a yes or no answer from you.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. Nowhere in your answer in April of 2022, before the grand jury, did you testify under oath that Ms. Read told you that John had actually been in the snow for many hours?
MR. WHITLEY: Not in April of 2022. No.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. The next time you testified under oath was last year in 2024.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: During that testimony, ADA Lally asked you — oh, by the way, so 2022 is no mention of many hours, right?
MR. WHITLEY: I did not, and I was told to be brief on the grand jury, but — but again, no mention of many hours in 2022.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. Now, 2024, last year, ADA Lally asked you, so firefighter Whitley, at some point, specific to your conversations with the defendant, Ms. Read, can you describe sort of her demeanor or any observations you made in relation to that as you were speaking with her? And your answer was yes. She was very upset. She kept asking if there was any chance. She kept asking us if we knew if the person ambulance one had transported was alive or dead, and we could not speak to that. She asked if somebody could be alive in the snow without a jacket for many hours.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: So 2022 there was no mention of many hours. 2024, now that's the first time that you mention the words many hours in your testimony regarding this case.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And when you testified last year, you testified still that she was asking you a question about surviving in the snow.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: So then we come to yesterday on direct examination. Do you recall that Mr. Brennan yesterday asked you, before you left, were you having any conversations with the defendant? And you answered yes. Recall that yesterday.
MR. WHITLEY: Is that at the hospital?
MR. YANNETTI: I'm asking you yesterday — do you recall Mr. Brennan asking you before you left, essentially the scene, were you having any conversations with the defendant? And your answer was yes.
MR. WHITLEY: I'm just trying to make sure we're talking about the same instance. Are we talking about when we left the hospital or when we left Fairview Road?
MR. YANNETTI: When you're at Fairview Road, leaving Fairview Road. We're talking about the same subject of what Ms. Read supposedly told you or asked you. Okay. Mr. Brennan went into that with you. So on the way to —
MR. WHITLEY: You're talking on the way to the hospital, in terms of when we left.
MR. YANNETTI: Well, before you left — he meant before you left the scene. Okay. No, I'm just trying to clarify. Same conversation, Mr. Whitley. I'm not trying to —
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Yannetti. He just asked for a point of reference. It's clear. Now go.
MR. YANNETTI: Understood. Um, and Mr. Brennan said, "Can you share with the jury what those conversations were about?" And your answer was, "So, we were talking. She was upset. She kept asking if there was any chance her husband could be alive, even sitting outside in the snow without any coat for many hours." Do you recall that answer that you gave yesterday on direct examination?
MR. WHITLEY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And that was the first time that you mentioned that she said — supposedly — or asked — supposedly — about him sitting outside in the snow.
MR. WHITLEY: I was just using phrases generally speaking. At that point I was paraphrasing. I was not speaking verbatim to what she said.
MR. YANNETTI: Let's try that again. That was the first time that you mentioned that she claimed or asked that he was sitting outside.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct. It could have been sitting, laying, being.
JUDGE CANNONE: Just ask the question, not "let's try it."
MR. YANNETTI: Was that the first time that you testified under oath that Ms. Read said or asked about him sitting outside?
MR. WHITLEY: Are you asking me to clarify whether she used —
MR. YANNETTI: I'm not asking to clarify anything. I'm asking you whether that was the first time yesterday during direct examination that you mentioned that she asked about him sitting outside.
MR. WHITLEY: I am very confused because I'm trying to figure out if you're — he was being outside, sitting outside —
MR. YANNETTI: I'm asking you about Ms. Read's statements, sir. That's all I've been asking you about. Her statements to you and your testimony about her statements to you — was yesterday on direct examination the first time that you testified under oath that Ms. Read mentioned the words sitting outside.
MR. WHITLEY: I don't know. I — I'm just using — she might have said laying outside, being outside, outside.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So when you testified yesterday before this jury —
MR. WHITLEY: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: — that she mentioned the words sitting outside, you're now saying that that might not have been accurate.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct. It could have been a different word.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. But you didn't say it could have been a different word yesterday. You just left it as sitting outside.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct. Yeah, that's what I said. Sitting.
MR. YANNETTI: All right. So now we get from — the grand jury with no many hours mentioned, to questions about many hours, to sitting outside — to let's talk about what you said on cross-examination.
MR. BRENNAN: I object.
JUDGE CANNONE: Objection sustained.
MR. YANNETTI: Sure. Um, on cross-examination, your words were, "She said he had been out in the snow without a jacket on for many hours."
MR. WHITLEY: Correct. She had asked if he could be alive even though he was outside without a jacket for many hours.
MR. YANNETTI: So it always was a question.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct. It was a question.
MR. YANNETTI: She never said what you said on cross-examination yesterday, which was she said that he had been out in the snow without a jacket on for many hours. That was not a declarative statement by Ms. Read.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MR. YANNETTI: Was that a declarative statement by Ms. Read?
MR. WHITLEY: She asked if he could be alive without a jacket in the snow for many hours. So again it was a question, sir. She asked me, and we were just trying to give her hope in terms of telling stories of hypothermic patients that could survive outside in the snow.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Is there any redirect briefly?
MR. BRENNAN: When you were called to the grand jury, was the testimony as in-depth and as long as it is in front of this jury?
MR. WHITLEY: No, not even close.
MR. BRENNAN: When you're recounting your memories of what happened, do you memorize word for word what you've said in the past?
MR. YANNETTI: Objection as to form.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Um, when you're recounting the past, do you record your statements?
MR. YANNETTI: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to let that. Do you record your statements?
MR. WHITLEY: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: Next question.
MR. BRENNAN: When you testified in the grand jury, page 90, line 15, and you said the defendant told you, "I'm upset — if he dies, I want to die." And then you later testify last year and you said, "If my husband dies, I want to die." Do you notice the little differences between those phrases?
MR. WHITLEY: I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that you making up words?
MR. WHITLEY: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that you trying to help a case?
MR. YANNETTI: Objection as to form.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: Are you inventing facts?
MR. WHITLEY: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Sir, when you are recounting what happened that day, are you using your best memory?
MR. YANNETTI: Objection.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were asked by the defendant about someone out in the snow without a jacket for many hours — do you remember that conversation with her?
MR. WHITLEY: I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Where were you during that conversation?
MR. WHITLEY: We were in the back of the ambulance.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember it distinctly?
MR. WHITLEY: I remember it distinctly. She was looking at me.
MR. BRENNAN: When you tried to give her hope and comfort and you told her stories about other situations where people — maybe children — have fallen through the ice and had hypothermia, did you have that conversation with her in trying to comfort her?
MR. WHITLEY: I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember that conversation?
MR. WHITLEY: I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you necessarily share those conversations with the grand jury?
MR. WHITLEY: I don't recall if I did or I didn't.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever write that in your report?
MR. WHITLEY: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that something you typically put everything in your report?
MR. WHITLEY: No, we do not write — generally we only write patient complaint, what happened, and what they did. Not their opinions or anything like that as to what's going on.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you have any interest in the outcome of this case?
MR. WHITLEY: I do not.
MR. BRENNAN: How long have you been a firefighter for?
MR. WHITLEY: Since March of 2006, and an EMT since November of 2002.
MR. BRENNAN: Over 20 years.
MR. WHITLEY: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: You said that you live near Kerry Roberts.
MR. WHITLEY: I do.
MR. BRENNAN: You've been to a block party for the kids where you've brought the fire engine down.
MR. WHITLEY: I have.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to allow it.
MR. BRENNAN: When you're at that block party, do you ever step out and have secret meetings with Kerry Roberts trying to concoct some conspiracy on their behalf?
MR. WHITLEY: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to allow that.
MR. WHITLEY: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Would you put your career on the line to do so?
MR. YANNETTI: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: No further questions.
JUDGE CANNONE: Any followup, Mr. Yannetti?
MR. YANNETTI: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Thank you, Mr. Whitley. You are all set.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd like to play clip five.
VIDEO PLAYBACK: clip plays: — and his mother leans over the kitchen island and says to me, "I think it looks like you got hit by a car." "They'll say got hit by a car."