Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveMichael Camerano - Direct/Cross
333 linesMR. BRENNAN: Commonwealth calls Michael Camerano.
COURT OFFICER: Hold on. Can you follow me, please?
COURT CLERK: Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help me.
MR. BRENNAN: Good morning, sir.
MR. CAMERANO: Good morning.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you please introduce yourself to the jury?
MR. CAMERANO: Hi, good morning. My name is Michael Camerano.
MR. BRENNAN: Mr. Camerano, can I ask — spell your last name.
MR. CAMERANO: C-A-M-E-R-A-N-O.
MR. BRENNAN: And so if you could either move the microphone down a little bit or speak up, or maybe a combination of both, please.
MR. CAMERANO: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. Could I ask you how old you are?
MR. CAMERANO: 48.
MR. BRENNAN: Where do you live?
MR. CAMERANO: Canton, Mass.
MR. BRENNAN: How long have you lived in Canton for?
MR. CAMERANO: Me and my wife have lived there for 20 years. We have two children.
MR. BRENNAN: How old are your children, sir?
MR. CAMERANO: My daughter is 17. My son is 14.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you know John O'Keefe?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: How did you know him?
MR. CAMERANO: I met John for the first time at his sister's — they had a benefit for his sister in 2013 — I met John there for the first time, and then years later our kids got involved with sports together and they became very close. As they became close, I became very close with John and his family.
MR. BRENNAN: Was your daughter close with John's niece?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was your son close with his nephew?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you spend a lot of time together through sports and socially?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes, we did.
MR. BRENNAN: I want to take you forward to January 28th of 2022.
MR. CAMERANO: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember that day?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you — without any discussion of what might have been said — did you have any discussions with John that day?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have a plan?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes, we were communicating.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did you decide that you were going to spend some time or go meet John?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes. That Friday, my daughter and his daughter, they got acceptance letters to school. So we wanted to get them together so they could enjoy the time together and, you know, just go over, like, how it will be — so much fun, something new, different. Yeah, so we were going to meet up after I got out of work.
MR. BRENNAN: Was your daughter planning to go to a new school?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Where?
MR. CAMERANO: Bishop F—
MR. BRENNAN: And how about his niece?
MR. CAMERANO: Same. They both got accepted to the same school.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it a celebratory move?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have a plan to bring the children together so they could celebrate?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes, we did.
MR. BRENNAN: And then separately you were going to meet John and celebrate.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Where did you drop your daughter off?
MR. CAMERANO: I dropped my daughter off at John's. I went into John's. I was at the house with John and the girls and we had a little celebration. Talked about how nice it's going to be — fun, change, different, meet new people.
MR. BRENNAN: And you celebrated at John's house before you went out.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: After the celebration with your children, did you and John leave?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: During that celebration, was there anybody there other than you, John, and your two daughters?
MR. CAMERANO: No. Karen was not there.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there anybody else there?
MR. CAMERANO: No, just the two girls, myself and John.
MR. BRENNAN: What was the weather like that night?
MR. CAMERANO: Um, it was cold. It was not snowing yet.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there an expectation?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes, there was. Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And what was that?
MR. CAMERANO: That there was going to be a big snowstorm coming in.
MR. BRENNAN: A storm was coming.
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you left, did you leave in a separate car than John or did you leave together?
MR. CAMERANO: No, we left together. John got in my car and we were leaving.
MR. BRENNAN: Where were the girls?
MR. CAMERANO: The girls were in the house. They were staying at John's house. Yes, correct.
MR. BRENNAN: Where did you go?
MR. CAMERANO: We went to C.F. McCarthy's.
MR. BRENNAN: When you got there, did you know anybody who was there other than you and John at that time?
MR. CAMERANO: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you spend time at C.F. McCarthy's?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you drinking?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was John drinking?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Alcohol?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: How long were you there for?
MR. CAMERANO: Uh, a couple hours.
MR. BRENNAN: While you were there, did anybody come and meet you that you knew?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Who?
MR. CAMERANO: A friend. And then Karen came in.
MR. BRENNAN: The friend. Yes. What was the friend's name?
MR. CAMERANO: Curt.
MR. BRENNAN: And then how long after you first got there was it that the defendant arrived?
MR. CAMERANO: I would like to say within an hour or so. Not 100% sure.
MR. BRENNAN: You said back home it was a celebratory mood. Was it still a celebratory mood at McCarthy's?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And when the defendant arrived, did she spend time with you and John?
MR. CAMERANO: Uh, I talked briefly to her and her and John were mostly talking.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. You didn't see any issues?
MR. CAMERANO: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. It was a normal night. Seemed to be.
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: As far as you could see.
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And you saw John drinking?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see the defendant drinking?
MR. CAMERANO: I saw her with a glass. Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Did you leave at the same time that John left?
MR. CAMERANO: No, I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: When you left, was John still at the establishment?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you left, was the defendant still with him?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Why did you leave?
MR. CAMERANO: I left because I got a phone call. My son was playing hockey in a backyard and he got hit with a stick and lost his tooth.
MR. BRENNAN: Oh. Where did you go?
MR. CAMERANO: I went to my son's friend's house.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know about what time that was when you went to see your son?
MR. CAMERANO: I would like to say 9:30.
MR. BRENNAN: Between 9:30 and 10, you didn't go back to McCarthy's that night, did you?
MR. CAMERANO: No, I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: After you helped your son, where did you go next?
MR. CAMERANO: I went to pick up my daughter Maline.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you go at John's house? Did you go in John's house?
MR. CAMERANO: No, I did not. When
MR. BRENNAN: You got to John's house, did your daughter come out?
MR. CAMERANO: No, we went to the side door and rang the doorbell.
MR. BRENNAN: And then what happened?
MR. CAMERANO: And then my daughter came to the door.
MR. BRENNAN: Where did you go from there?
MR. CAMERANO: We left and went home.
MR. BRENNAN: When you went home, had the weather changed at all?
MR. CAMERANO: It was cool. It might have been flurrying at that time.
MR. BRENNAN: No accumulation?
MR. CAMERANO: No. No.
MR. BRENNAN: You got home?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you do anything significant when you got home?
MR. CAMERANO: Um, put the kids to bed, my son and — no, I went to bed.
MR. BRENNAN: What's the next thing you remember happening?
MR. CAMERANO: Waking up to — I missed some phone calls.
MR. BRENNAN: Who were the missed phone calls from?
MR. CAMERANO: From my wife and Karen.
MR. BRENNAN: What did you do?
MR. CAMERANO: I called my wife.
MR. BRENNAN: After speaking to your wife, what did you do?
MR. CAMERANO: I got in my car and drove to John's house.
MR. BRENNAN: About what time was this?
MR. CAMERANO: In between maybe 5 and 6 a.m.
MR. BRENNAN: What was your mood at that point?
MR. CAMERANO: Um, I was panicked.
MR. BRENNAN: Why did you go to John's house?
MR. CAMERANO: Because I went to get Kaye.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you know if she was alone?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: How long did it take you to get to John's house?
MR. CAMERANO: Maybe five, seven minutes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you get to John's house, what do you see?
MR. CAMERANO: Um, I pull in the driveway. I see that the garage door is open. I go in through the garage door. I don't know if Kaye was standing there, if the door — she came out the door and I asked her, you know, if she needed anything, she could get in my car and stay warm.
MR. BRENNAN: And when you first saw Kaylee, what did she look like?
MR. CAMERANO: She looked distraught.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you try to help her?
MR. CAMERANO: Well, I just — I think I just said everything will be okay. Yeah.
MR. BRENNAN: Did she come with you?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Where are you going?
MR. CAMERANO: To my house.
MR. BRENNAN: So, what happens?
MR. CAMERANO: So, we go to my house and my daughter's up and the two girls are just hanging downstairs, just hanging out, just being kids. And then I don't know, couple hours later maybe Paul called me and asked me to bring Kaylee home.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you know anything at that point?
MR. CAMERANO: I did. Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You did or didn't?
MR. CAMERANO: At that point I did when Paul had told me.
MR. BRENNAN: So what do you do?
MR. CAMERANO: I ask Maline and Kaylee — I say, "Maline, come for the ride." I don't say anything to Kaye about why we get in the car and I start heading back to John's house.
MR. BRENNAN: And you didn't say anything to Kaye?
MR. CAMERANO: No, I didn't. I just said everything will be all right. She had a feeling.
MR. BRENNAN: Why do you say that?
MR. CAMERANO: She don't want to go home.
MR. BRENNAN: So, what happens next?
MR. CAMERANO: So I pull in the driveway and I remember Paul and Papa standing — I think they were standing at the side door and we just embraced.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you stay?
MR. CAMERANO: No. No. Not long. No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you go back?
MR. CAMERANO: I went back to my house.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you go back to John's house?
MR. CAMERANO: I did the next day. Yes, I was there.
MR. BRENNAN: When you went back, were there people there?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes. Many. There was people coming and going.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. I have no further questions. Thank you.
MR. YANNETTI: Good morning, Mr. Camerano.
MR. CAMERANO: Good morning.
MR. YANNETTI: This is quite painful for you to remember the events of January 28th, is it not?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You were very close with your friend John O'Keefe.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Were close with him.
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you actually met Karen Read through John.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: After meeting Karen, you spent a good amount of time with both Karen and John.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: As of January 28th of 2022, you had known Karen for maybe about a year or so.
MR. CAMERANO: Sounds correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And you'd see them especially on Fridays.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: That would be sort of the day that you get together with both of them often.
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And of course your children spent a lot of time with John and Karen, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: You entrusted both Karen and John with your kids.
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Sometimes your kids would even go on vacation with Karen and John, right?
MR. CAMERANO: They did go to the Cape. Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Sometimes you'd see Karen without John at your house or on a ball field.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And your daughter in particular would sometimes spend time with just Karen without John.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Your daughter would sometimes go over to Karen's house in Mansfield when she lived there.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And obviously when your daughter would go to Karen's house in Mansfield, Karen would be the one in charge of caring for her.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And you were fine with that because you liked and you trusted Karen, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And in your view, Karen was very good with kids, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: But you also had the opportunity to see Karen and John together, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You saw how they interacted with each other over that year period that you knew Karen?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You saw how they got along.
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And you never observed any arguments or bickering, correct?
MR. CAMERANO: I mean, they argued and bickered.
MR. YANNETTI: You had previously testified that you wouldn't even call it arguing. You just call it banter, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes. I mean, he would — I mean, no, he would get upset over if she bought expensive things for the kids.
MR. YANNETTI: Yes. Yeah, we'll get to that. That would be the one thing that John would complain about — Karen buying like very nice things for his niece and nephew. Right?
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Or he'd complain if, you know, Karen was taking his niece and other girls to get their nails done — like extravagances like that.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And one specific memory you have is when Karen bought his niece a very expensive sweater. Right.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And you recall John telling you that he wished that she hadn't done that because he considered that to be spoiling the girl.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: But it was very clear to you from your observations that John really really liked Karen. Right?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. YANNETTI: He certainly never told you or even suggested he was thinking about or planning to break up with Karen. Right?
MR. CAMERANO: No.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. So, with regard to that Friday night, January 28th, sir, the plan was for you and John to go to McCarthy's to have some drinks because there was a storm coming in.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And because of the celebration of the girls getting into Bishop Feehan.
MR. CAMERANO: Well, yeah, we were going out. It wasn't a continuation of the celebration of the girls. We were going out to have a few beers as guys.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And when you were leaving the house, John asked you to move your car, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: Where was your car when John asked you to move it that night?
MR. CAMERANO: Actually, I backed up my car. We were leaving the driveway and John asked me to stop so he could move his car.
MR. YANNETTI: I see. And he wanted you to move your car because of the storm coming in and he wanted Karen to be able to pull her car into the garage, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And that was really thoughtful of him, wasn't it?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes. Extremely.
MR. YANNETTI: It showed you that he was being chivalrous toward Karen that night, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Want Karen to be out in the heavy snow later when she returned to his house during the expected blizzard, right?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. YANNETTI: Um, you took from that that there was an expectation that Karen would be coming back to his house.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. YANNETTI: Um, you had no inkling that day that anything was wrong between Karen and John, correct?
MR. CAMERANO: No.
MR. YANNETTI: Everything seemed fine between the two of them, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: He did mention, though, that night, that — he just didn't understand why Karen had a plumber go to the house, um, because he had somebody that could have done that work instead of paying for the plumber. Right?
MR. CAMERANO: Well, yes. Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. And, um, but in any case, the plan was for Karen to meet up with the two of you, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And she did show up to McCarthy's at about 8:30 p.m. or so?
MR. CAMERANO: If — yes, I guess, if that's the time.
MR. YANNETTI: I'm sorry. What was the answer that you said?
MR. CAMERANO: If that was the time — I'm not sure about the timeline.
MR. YANNETTI: Okay. It was sometime after you had gotten there, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And when Karen arrived, there was an affectionate greeting between John and Karen, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You saw them kiss, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: You saw John put his arm around Karen.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct.
MR. YANNETTI: And you saw that Karen sort of nestled into his embrace.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And when she did that, that's when he kissed her.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: And they seemed happy to see each other, did they not?
MR. CAMERANO: They did.
MR. YANNETTI: That night they were affectionate?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Laughing?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Happy?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Like a normal couple?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: No arguments?
MR. CAMERANO: No.
MR. YANNETTI: You witnessed no bickering, no tension.
MR. CAMERANO: Correct. No.
MR. YANNETTI: And during the month before John's passing, that January of 2022, um, you observed their relationship in your presence to be normal, caring, and affectionate, right?
MR. CAMERANO: Yes.
MR. YANNETTI: Thank you very much, sir.
MR. BRENNAN: You were asked a number of questions about the relationship between John and Karen that night. Do you know what was going on behind closed doors other than what you saw?
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MR. CAMERANO: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know whether or not they texted each other that day?
MR. CAMERANO: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know whether or not there were any arguments that day?
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MR. CAMERANO: Not to my — no, I don't — I don't know if they were — well, I don't know if they were arguing over the plumber situation. I don't —
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know if there were any vulgarities that day?
MR. CAMERANO: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know if there were any vulgarities that night?
MR. CAMERANO: No, not to my knowledge.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know whether or not John was trying to end the relationship with Miss Read?
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Do you know that, sir?
MR. CAMERANO: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: Next question.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know if there was any jealousy in that relationship?
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
MR. CAMERANO: Oh, I mean — she — I mean, Karen wouldn't — I mean, they did everything together, a lot of things together, and I thought at times, yeah, you could see, you know, she didn't want other women around John. I don't know. Not at that —
JUDGE CANNONE: But thank you. Any followup? All right, Mr. Camerano, you're all set. I'll see counsel at sidebar for just a minute, please.