Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveKerry Roberts - Redirect/Recross
302 linesJUDGE CANNONE: Okay, Mr. Brennan, any questions?
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. Thanks. When you spoke to the grand jury about your memory, were you trying to fool them in any way?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you trying to —
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Watch the form of your questions.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you trying to mislead them in any way?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Watch the form of your questions.
MR. BRENNAN: When you spoke to the grand jury, were you honest?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were asked the question, what if anything did the defendant ask Miss McCabe — did you begin your response by saying "at one point?" You can show her her response. May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Page 83, line 19. I'm going to ask you to look at page 83, line 19. Just read it to yourself and the lines that follow. When you were asked that question by Mr. Lally at the grand jury, did you ever say you specifically personally heard that statement?
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you tell the grand jury you actually heard that statement being made?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: And when you spoke to the people in that report that you looked at on page seven, did you ever tell them you specifically heard that statement being made?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you consistent in both of those statements?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you say anything different as far as what you personally observed between those statements?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: And when you were asked about what the defendant may have said to Mrs. McCabe to Miss McCabe, did you generalize your answer?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you begin your answer with "at one point"?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. When you chose the words "at one point," what were you trying to convey to the grand jury?
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MS. ROBERTS: I didn't know at what time it was done.
MR. BRENNAN: Was that a topic of conversation around the time you were brought to the grand jury? At around the time that you were brought to the grand jury to testify — this Google search —
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Were you asked here in front of this jury whether or not you personally heard that statement?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: By me? Did I ask you that question?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you personally hear that statement?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: After this happened, you discussed what had happened with people, didn't you?
MS. ROBERTS: I'm sorry. Say it again.
MR. BRENNAN: After you found John lying in the snow, did you discuss what had happened? What you saw with other people?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, of course.
MR. BRENNAN: Did anybody tell you that you couldn't discuss the trauma that you had been through?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to allow that.
MS. ROBERTS: Say it again.
MR. BRENNAN: Did anybody tell you that you couldn't discuss what you had just seen?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: After you found John that morning, did anybody, civilian or law enforcement, ever tell you you weren't allowed to discuss what you had just went through?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did anybody ever tell you that you couldn't have support of other people?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Was this a traumatic event?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Have you spoken about it to a number of —
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us why you would want to speak to somebody about what happened that morning.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to allow that.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, I've spoken to many people, obviously, that we all grew up with. Um, but Jen in particular, I do speak to her. I am friends with her. We went through a really traumatic experience together.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever confide in other people other than Jen McCabe about what you endured that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, many people.
MR. BRENNAN: Why?
MS. ROBERTS: Because it helps me get through, and, um, whether John's family, friends, whoever — I've talked to a number of people about it.
MR. BRENNAN: You're friends with John's parents?
MS. ROBERTS: Parents?
MR. BRENNAN: John's parents. You still friends with them?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you ever discuss what happened?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You were asked by law enforcement if they could have your telephone.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there a warrant?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Ask it differently.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you feel like you had any legal obligation to give your phone to law enforcement?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MS. ROBERTS: No, they asked for my phone. I handed it over willingly.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you think you had to?
MS. ROBERTS: No, but there was no reason not to.
MR. BRENNAN: When they went through your phone, do you know whether they saw all of your phone calls that were on that phone?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Do you know that?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know. They cloned my phone, so I assume they saw everything.
MR. JACKSON: Objection, please.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to strike that answer. So, the answer is I don't know.
MR. BRENNAN: What type of information did you have on your phone when you voluntarily gave it?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, text messages, phone calls, call logs, pictures.
MR. BRENNAN: You said that you stayed friendly and still are friendly with Peggy O'Keefe and John Senior.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. At times, do you try to help them with things?
MS. ROBERTS: Daily.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you try to help them with the children?
JUDGE CANNONE: Objection sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: Well, you were asked about contacting the district attorney's office about replacing a Ring camera.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Whose Ring camera was that?
MS. ROBERTS: It was at One Meadows, where Mr. and Mrs. O'Keefe, John's parents, are now living.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. What motivated you to call the district attorney's office about the Ring camera?
MS. ROBERTS: Because we knew the Ring might be some sort of evidence and they didn't want to take the camera that was not working down without permission.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you have a Ring camera?
MS. ROBERTS: I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know if there's a difference between the actual physical camera and the iCloud storage that keeps the actual video on it?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know the difference.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Did you ever ask to replace any hard drives or storage, or were you asking to replace the camera itself?
MS. ROBERTS: Just the camera.
MR. BRENNAN: And that was on March 7, 2023?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know when.
MR. BRENNAN: You were asked questions about what the defendant said that morning when you were trying to help Mr. O'Keefe.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You were asked whether you heard any comments from her about dropping John off.
MS. ROBERTS: Say that one more time.
MR. BRENNAN: You were asked whether you heard any comments about her saying she dropped him off in the car on the way to the hospital.
MS. ROBERTS: Okay. She said it to Mrs. O'Keefe.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were outside trying to help John, were you ever told where the defendant dropped John off?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you ever told where he was left?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it ever suggested that he went into 34 Fairview?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it ever suggested that he went into any house whatsoever that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you ever asked to go into the house to look for him?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were being interviewed by law enforcement, did you ever refuse to be interviewed?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Were the interviews all the same or different?
MS. ROBERTS: They were all different. They were all different.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Were you ever asked to give a complete review and detail of everything that you knew?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, I was just asked to tell me the story of what happened that morning.
MR. BRENNAN: And at some point when you were interviewed, you were asked about the phone calls that the defendant made to you that morning at 5:00.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you received those phone calls, Jennifer McCabe was not on the line, was she?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Was she a party to the calls?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did she influence your memory in any way about the words that the defendant spoke to you that morning?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow that.
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you have a clear memory of what the defendant said to you on the morning of January 29th, 2022 at around 5 in the morning when she first called you?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Is it your independent memory?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us what you remember her saying to you.
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll allow it.
MS. ROBERTS: When she first called, she said, "John's dead. Kerry, Kerry." And hung up.
MR. BRENNAN: And she called you back.
MS. ROBERTS: She called back.
MR. BRENNAN: When she called back, was there any other party on the line other than you and her?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: What do you remember from the second time that she called you?
MS. ROBERTS: She said, "John, I think he got hit by a plow. He did not come home last night. He would never not have come home. I wasn't supposed to stay in Canton. And Kaye was here. He would never leave Kaye by herself."
MR. BRENNAN: Did anybody ever ask you to lie?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Or exaggerate?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: You were asked whether or not you told people on January 29th about the missing pieces to the defendant's tail light, and you began to say you didn't tell anybody that morning.
MS. ROBERTS: I didn't think it had anything to do with John. I didn't want to point fingers at anybody.
MR. BRENNAN: Why not?
MS. ROBERTS: Because I had no idea what had happened to him. I wasn't going to point fingers at his girlfriend.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it in fact broken with missing pieces that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You saw the Ring video of you and Miss McCabe and the defendant going into John's house?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you seen that video before today?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you been shown it before in other proceedings?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you went into the house with Miss McCabe and the defendant, did you do anything before you went into the house?
MS. ROBERTS: Actually, in the house — when I — we took off our shoes.
MR. BRENNAN: You took off your shoes.
MS. ROBERTS: Jen and I both took off our boots.
MR. BRENNAN: Why did you take off your boots?
MS. ROBERTS: Because you had to take off your shoes to go into John's house.
MR. BRENNAN: Well, you say you had to. Explain to us a little bit of the background on that.
MS. ROBERTS: John was a neat freak. You were not allowed to wear shoes in the house.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you ever worn shoes in his house?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you ever seen anybody wear shoes in his house?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: You and Miss —
MS. ROBERTS: They do now. They do now.
MR. BRENNAN: You and Miss McCabe took your shoes off?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did the defendant take her shoes off?
MS. ROBERTS: She did not.
MR. BRENNAN: How do you remember that?
MS. ROBERTS: Because Jen and I were standing there for about a good two minutes trying to get our boots off and she had already gone in the house.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Do you know why you were called that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you volunteer to be part of this?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: After the call?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You had said you thought — you looked at the tail light before you went into John's house.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember actually seeing the tail light that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it simply cracked?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know that the portion of the Ring video from when you came out of the house with the defendant and Miss McCabe — do you know that that portion is missing?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: Have you ever seen any Ring video depicting when the defendant was showing you her missing pieces of tail light that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Despite no video, are you certain that you saw it?
MS. ROBERTS: Say it again.
MR. BRENNAN: Are you certain that you looked at it with the defendant that morning in that driveway?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd like to play clip three, please.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Quiet, folks. Still on the record. It is now. All right. Go ahead. Mr. Brennan.
MR. BRENNAN: When you first got to John and you were trying to save him that morning, do you have a distinct memory of it?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Counsel had asked you if it was your story. Was this a story?
MS. ROBERTS: Say it again.
MR. BRENNAN: Was it a story that you told?
MS. ROBERTS: A story? Yes. It's what happened.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you wish it was just a story?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
MR. BRENNAN: I have no further question.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. So, recross — you just asked just a few minutes ago.
MR. JACKSON: Did you ever say that you actually heard that statement about that Google search? And you said no.
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: The question that was posed to you by Mr. -- was, what if anything did Miss Read ask Miss McCabe while they were sitting in the back of the cruiser that you heard?
MS. ROBERTS: Correct. I misunderstood the question.
MR. JACKSON: And you misunderstood that question?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: What did you misunderstand about that question?
MS. ROBERTS: I didn't know it was — that you heard. So I was explaining what happened in the back of the car.
MR. JACKSON: I see. So you just ignored — literally the part of the question where he said, "What did you hear her say?" That's what your testimony is.
MS. ROBERTS: I just — I didn't hear it. I obviously got the question wrong because I did not hear anybody ask about a Google search.
MR. JACKSON: Well, I know that's what you're saying now. I get that. But when you were asked, what if anything did she ask Miss McCabe while they were sitting in the back of the cruiser that you heard? Your immediate answer was, "At one point she asked her to Google hypothermia and how long — Google hypothermia," end quote.
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Correct. That was your answer.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
MS. ROBERTS: To a question I misunderstood.
MR. JACKSON: And that was a false statement, wasn't it?
MS. ROBERTS: Technically.
MR. JACKSON: Technically. Yes. Technically pregnant, Miss Roberts.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. So remember, jurors, I said earlier, comments of counsel are not evidence and you're to disregard them. Ask a question.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, your honor. What do you mean technically?
MS. ROBERTS: Technically I was under oath and I did not hear Jen. Karen asked Jen to Google it.
MR. JACKSON: And yet under oath?
MS. ROBERTS: But I knew it happened at that time.
MR. JACKSON: And yet under oath you said you did.
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And that was a lie.
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: Objection.
MR. JACKSON: Was that a lie? Did you lie?
MS. ROBERTS: I did.
MR. JACKSON: Not intentionally, but you did —
MS. ROBERTS: And not intentionally.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay, that's the end of this.
MS. ROBERTS: I misunderstood the question, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: I didn't hear what you just said.
MS. ROBERTS: I said I misunderstood the question, Mr. Jackson.
MR. JACKSON: That's what you're saying now, correct?
MS. ROBERTS: That's what happened.
MR. JACKSON: All right. Can I ask one more question?
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: In that quote, you said, "At one point she asked her to Google hypothermia and how long." Then you corrected yourself and finished with "Google hypothermia." What did you mean by "how long"? What were you about to start?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't recall.
MR. JACKSON: Had someone told you something about a phrase that started with "how long"?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't recall.
MR. JACKSON: Like for instance, how long to die in cold?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't recall.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. All right, Miss — I'm sorry. Miss — thank you. May I?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes, sir.
MR. JACKSON: I'd like to play clip three, please.
MR. BRENNAN: Before this is played, can — is it possible to take a quick break so we can review this? I'm not — there's a lot of clips. I'm not sure what this is. I'd like to see it before it's played.
PARENTHETICAL: [break]
COURT OFFICER: You are unmuted. Court is back in session. You may be seated.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. How long a clip is this?
MR. JACKSON: Probably about 10 seconds, 15 seconds.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Jurors, we're going to ask you to take a break. And we'll bring you back in. We'll give you a 5-minute break.
MR. JACKSON: That's fine. Thank you.
PARENTHETICAL: [gap — ~2 min 13 sec — transition to live courtroom feed]
COURT OFFICER: Court, arise, please. Jurors, close your books. Follow me.
MR. BRENNAN: I'm sorry. Is the food here? Okay, folks. We'll take a 40-minute lunch recess.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, Mr. Brennan, whenever you're ready.
VIDEO PLAYBACK: When my car received — there were a few small pieces of tail light missing that I had picked out at John's at quarter to 6, before we drove over to Fairview. I'm showing J and Kerry — look what I just did to my light. And I'm worried that there's going to be some kind of electric short circuit. There's — the bulb is showing and some of the red plastic's missing. So I picked pieces out of the light housing that had kind of collapsed within the light and dropped them in John's driveway.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd like to have that marked as an exhibit, please.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Right. All right. Rather than calling your next witness — it'll take 10 minutes to bring a witness in and do all of that. Why don't we take the lunch recess?
COURT OFFICER: All rise for the court, please. Jurors, close your books. Put them on your chairs and follow me.