Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveKerry Roberts - Direct (Part 2)
550 linesCOURT CLERK: Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. All persons having anything to do before the honorable Beverly Cannone, Justice of the Superior Court, now holden in Dedham, within and for the county of Norfolk. Draw near. Give your attendance and you shall be heard. God save the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. This court is in session. Please be seated. 22117. The Commonwealth versus Karen Read.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. Good morning again, counsel. Good morning, Miss Read. Good morning, jurors. Thank you for your patience. The lawyers and I got some work done this morning while you were waiting for us, and we do appreciate it. So, I do have to ask you those three questions. Were you able to follow my instructions and refrain from discussing this case with anyone? Everyone said yes or nodded affirmatively. Were you also able to follow the instruction and refrain from doing any independent research or investigation into this case? Yes. Everyone said yes or nodded affirmatively. Did anyone see, hear or read anything about this case since we left yesterday? Everyone said no or shook their heads. All right. Thank you very much. Can we have Ms. Roberts back in, please?
JUDGE CANNONE: I'll remind you you're still under oath.
MS. ROBERTS: Thank you. Good morning.
JUDGE CANNONE: Whenever you're ready, Mr. Brennan.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you, your honor. Good morning, Mrs. Roberts.
MS. ROBERTS: Good morning.
MR. BRENNAN: Yesterday, you told us a little bit about when you went into John's home at Meadows to look for him.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And I recall you said that you did not see him there.
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, you left.
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: When you went into Meadows, who did you go into Meadows with?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, Karen and Jen McCabe.
MR. BRENNAN: Have you ever seen any video from a Ring camera depicting you and the defendant and Miss McCabe going into the home?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I have.
MR. BRENNAN: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Actually, I move to introduce a ring video and have certification and then a small ring video, if there's no objection.
MR. JACKSON: There's no objection. Can I introduce, your honor? It's 12A and 12B.
JUDGE CANNONE: Did you say if there's no objection or there is no?
MR. BRENNAN: If there's no objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: One final matter. 12C.
PARENTHETICAL: [unidentified]
MR. BRENNAN: : That's accurate.
JUDGE CANNONE: 12C will be just fine. Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: Your honor, if I may note, 12A is the ring video from 12 Meadows, 12B is the certification from Ring, and 12C is a clip, a portion of 12A.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. With the court's permission, I'd like to play 12C for the jury.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you, Ms. Roberts. You've seen that video before?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I have.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that you and the defendant and Ms. McCabe going into Meadows?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, it is.
MR. BRENNAN: When you came out of Meadows, did you have a chance again to look at the defendant's tail light on her Lexus?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. When we left the house, she pointed it out to me.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you stop and get a closer look?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: I want you to describe to the jury your best memory of what it looked like.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, Karen pointed it out and said, "Look, my tail light." She said, "Do you think I hit him?" And I said, "No, I don't think you hit him. What are you talking about? Let's just go find him." Um, but the tail light itself, the piece was missing. And as you got closer, there's a metal sort of square and one of the pieces was sort of sticking out. And I only remember it because I thought if someone walks by that, they're going to catch their jacket on it.
MR. BRENNAN: How long of a time did you have to actually look at the tail light?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, under a minute.
MR. BRENNAN: How close were you to the tail light when you looked at it?
MS. ROBERTS: I was in front of it. I could see.
MR. BRENNAN: And when you talked about the tail light, you said a piece was missing. Is this the left side or the right side of the Lexus that you saw the piece of the tail light missing?
MS. ROBERTS: It was the right side.
MR. BRENNAN: So, it was the passenger tail light. May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MS. ROBERTS: Should I remain, your honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. You recognize what is in that photo?
MS. ROBERTS: That is Karen's SUV.
MR. BRENNAN: Is it a similar or fair and accurate depiction of how you saw the vehicle that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: Uh, without the snow, I can't be positive, but this square piece was missing, as is in this picture.
MR. BRENNAN: The photograph — it looks like it's not the car in the snow in the driveway the day you saw it.
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: Um, putting that aside, is that a fair and accurate depiction of the damage that you saw to the right rear tail light of Miss Read's car that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: I move to admit this as an exhibit, please.
JUDGE CANNONE: Any objection?
MR. JACKSON: No objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: 13.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. With the court's permission, I'd like to publish exhibit 13.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sure.
MR. BRENNAN: Ms. Roberts, I'm going to ask you to take a look at the photo that you just described. Do you see the white area in that photograph?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that where the tail light had the missing part?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And where was the metal in relation to that white part that you see?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, if you look at the white part, it's the upper left. It's sort of like a rectangle, but it's vertical sort of.
MR. BRENNAN: And that's the metal part that you were concerned about?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. One of the sides, it's almost like an encasement, but the right side, I think it was the right side, was sticking out a little bit, like out from the car toward me.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you express any concern about the metal sticking out?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, because I thought at that height it could clip someone's coat or something if they were walking by.
MR. BRENNAN: You mentioned the defendant asked you if you thought she hit somebody.
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: How many times did she ask you that?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, she asked me that in the driveway. How many times — she said, "Do you think I hit him? Do you think I hit him?" And my answer was, "No, I don't think you hit him. I'm sure you hit something because your tail light's broken, but I don't think you hit him." Why would I think that?
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have any reason to think at that point that she hit anybody?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did she ever repeat that phrase or question in the same or similar manner again that night?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, she did at the scene where we found John.
MR. BRENNAN: Before or after you found John?
MS. ROBERTS: After we found John.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. So, we'll get to that then. Could we please take that picture down, Miss Gilman? How far of a ride is it from Meadows to Fairview?
MS. ROBERTS: Uh, I would — I don't know, maybe 8 minutes.
MR. BRENNAN: So, when you left John's house at Meadows and you traveled to Fairview, um, you said you were driving.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there any comments or conversation from the defendant on that ride?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, there was talk of Ella's mom who lived near Jen's sister. Um, there was talk and I said, "Where is Fairview?" And Jen said, "It's off of Chapman." So, it was near Spring Lane. And I knew of somebody previously that John had dated on Spring Lane. So, I brought it up thinking, could he have gone there if he was walking home? I don't know. I didn't know where he was or why he was missing.
MR. BRENNAN: Describe the mood in the car.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, well, it was scary driving and Karen was, you know, frantic and she was yelling. I don't even remember at this point what she was yelling, but she was yelling. She had an elevated voice. She would be in between us while I was driving and she would sit back in the back seat and be in between us.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have any words with Miss Read?
MS. ROBERTS: I told her to shut up several times because I was trying to drive and I couldn't concentrate. I told her to sit back and buckle up because it was bad driving. I didn't want to get into an accident and her not have a seatbelt on.
MR. BRENNAN: How often was the yelling on the way to Fairview?
MS. ROBERTS: Oh, several times. It was like you couldn't control her and I was trying to drive in a blizzard.
MR. BRENNAN: You went down Spring Lane before you get to Fairview?
MS. ROBERTS: No. Spring Lane is before Fairview, off of Chapman.
MR. BRENNAN: And did anything remarkable happen on Spring Lane?
MS. ROBERTS: I'm sorry. Anything remarkable happened on Spring Lane?
MR. BRENNAN: No?
MS. ROBERTS: More of the same.
MR. BRENNAN: Yes. Now, you mentioned yesterday that when you got to Fairview, the defendant began kicking your door.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you looked out, you didn't see anything?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: And at some point, you ran over to where Miss Read was.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us what your first observations are when you get close to the defendant.
MS. ROBERTS: Well, it was a shape of a body, like the length of a body. She ran over and I said, "Oh my god." I jumped out of the car. I ran over and I got to— she was lifting up his shirt to try and warm him, I guess. Um, so I went over to his head and I began to dig his head out of the snow.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you take us back and describe for us what you're seeing?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, his body was completely covered, but his head was completely covered. So I started to dig around his face and his eyes, and um, his left eye was fine, but his right eye looked like it was huge, um, like he had had something happen to it. Um, and after that I told Karen to get off him. We were going to start CPR. Um, I had been certified at work through the American Red Cross. So I knew chest compressions were more important. So I started to do chest compressions and I yelled to Jen and told her to call 911. Karen was trying to do mouth-to-mouth. I don't know if she knew what she was doing, but I knew chest compressions were more important so I concentrated on that. I yelled for Jen. I carry blankets. I have two kids, so I carry blankets in the car.
MS. ROBERTS: So I yelled to Jen to get the blankets. I don't know what I thought I was doing with blankets, but I wrapped them around his head just thinking we're trying to warm him up. He was covered in snow.
MR. BRENNAN: When you first ran over, you mentioned that his head was covered in snow. Was his head fully covered in snow?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you looked down, could you see who it was at first?
MS. ROBERTS: At first, no, I had to dig him out.
MR. BRENNAN: When is it that you realize that this was your friend John?
MS. ROBERTS: When I cleared the snow off his face.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you feel his skin?
MS. ROBERTS: Did I feel what?
MR. BRENNAN: His skin.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. And could you tell us how it felt?
MS. ROBERTS: It was cold, like he had been there in the elements for a while.
MR. BRENNAN: You mentioned that his head was covered with snow before you brushed off the snow. Were other parts of his body still covered in snow?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you share with us what you saw?
MS. ROBERTS: His legs were covered, his arms were by his side. He was on his back. Karen had lifted up his shirt. So now his shirt was down, but I was doing chest compressions so you could see his clothing. He had blood coming out of his nose and his mouth, and when I put the baby blankets under the back of him, there was blood on the blanket. So I think he had a cut on the back of his head.
MR. BRENNAN: Was the blood from his nose and mouth frozen or running?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't think it was running. It was not gushing.
MR. BRENNAN: You said that you brushed off the snow from John's face?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you brush it off from both sides?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you brush it off to the extent that you uncovered his entire face and head?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have gloves on?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Bare hands?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And that's how you felt the temperature of his skin?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you brushed off both sides of his face, did you ever feel any pieces of glass sticking out of his face?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever see any pieces of glass sticking out of his face?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: How long did you give chest compressions to Mr. O'Keefe?
MS. ROBERTS: Oh, I can't be sure. I would say 4 minutes, 5 minutes while we were waiting for the EMTs. I had Jen take over at one point. And then the EMTs came. So, however long it took for them to get to us. Six minutes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were trying to save your friend John, did the defendant say anything?
MS. ROBERTS: She was just running around screaming, "Kerry, Kerry, Jen, Kerry, Jen."
MR. BRENNAN: Was anything said at that point about her tail light?
MS. ROBERTS: About what?
MR. BRENNAN: Her tail light?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: When the EMTs were around and they were working on the body, what was she doing?
MS. ROBERTS: She was running around and saying, "Did I hit him? Did I hit him? Is he dead? Is he dead?"
MR. BRENNAN: When you were waiting for the police and EMTs, just briefly, what was the temperature like and the visibility like?
MS. ROBERTS: The temperature was freezing, because I remember at one point I couldn't feel my knees, which is why I had Jen take over, and the wind was still whipping and the snow was still coming down.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did help arrive?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, they did.
MR. BRENNAN: And when help arrived, what did you do?
MS. ROBERTS: I stood back and watched them work on him.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see first responders trying to give first aid to Mr. O'Keefe?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: How long were you outside for that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: At that point? Well, the entire morning. Oh, I don't — maybe a half hour.
MR. BRENNAN: When the first responders were trying to save John, what else were you doing?
MS. ROBERTS: I was calling my husband. I called my mother. When they put him in the back of the ambulance, I then made a call to Mrs. O'Keefe. I think I called Mr. O'Keefe first, but he didn't answer. So I called Mrs. O'Keefe and told her John had been in an accident, and she screamed, "I can't do this again."
MR. BRENNAN: What did you do after that phone call?
MS. ROBERTS: The police put Jen and Karen in the back of a cruiser and I was looking in the ambulance to see what was going on with my friend. So I was standing outside of the cruiser. They were inside. I was standing outside just watching. And Karen was saying, "Is he dead? Is he dead? Is he dead?" And I said, "No, they're working on him. I can see tubes moving. I can see them moving something. If he was dead, they wouldn't be working on him." She grabbed the front of my shirt and said, "Are they working on him?" And I said, "Yes, they're working on him." I didn't — at this point, I think I was in shock. I didn't know what was going on. I didn't think he was dead. I thought they could save him.
MS. ROBERTS: I knew he was in the ambulance with the EMTs and I was just hopeful that they were going to be able to do more than I could.
MR. BRENNAN: You said that at one point Miss McCabe and the defendant were in a car, and then you mentioned at some point the defendant grabbed you. Did she grab you when she was in the car or out of the car?
MS. ROBERTS: She was in the car. I was outside of the car.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did the defendant and Miss McCabe get out of the car?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you go over to the ambulance before it left?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you watch?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did you see the defendant get out of the police cruiser?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I didn't see them get out, but they were out at one point.
MR. BRENNAN: They were what?
MS. ROBERTS: They were out of the vehicle, but I didn't watch them get out. I was watching the ambulance.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, you saw them out?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And were they near you when you were watching the ambulance?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know. I wasn't concentrating on either one of them. I was concentrating on my friend in the ambulance.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were trying to save Mr. O'Keefe, did you ever see any signs of life?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not. And I checked his pulse. No, I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: After the ambulance took John to the hospital, tell us what you do next.
MS. ROBERTS: I left. I told Mrs. O'Keefe, I said, "I'm going to come get you." She said, "Well, I'm going to have Braintree Police take me to the hospital," which was in Brockton. And I said, "They're not going to take you to Brockton. I will come get you," because neither of their cars had four-wheel drive. So I asked if I could leave, and they said, "Give me your number. We'll follow up with you." And I took Karen with me. We drove down the street. At some point, she was on the phone with Erin O'Keefe, John's sister-in-law, and Karen was saying, "I think he's dead. I think he's dead." I grabbed the phone and I said, "I don't think he's dead. He's in an ambulance. He's been in an accident." At this point, I didn't know what was going to happen.
MS. ROBERTS: At some point in the car as we're driving, she was on the phone with her mother. And I think when we were driving, we got all the way to the elementary school and Karen said to me, "If anything happens to John, I'm going to kill myself. You're going to have to take care of the kids." And I said, "Nobody's dying. Nobody's killing themselves. Let's not think about that." And then one of the officers called me and said, "Do you have Karen Read with you?" And I said, "Yes." And he said, "Could you please turn around and bring her back? Her parents are saying that she's suicidal, so we're going to take her to the hospital and section her." I said, "Okay." I didn't get far. So I turned around, went back.
MS. ROBERTS: At some point she was on the phone with her mother, and I got on the phone with her mother and said, "I'm going to be heading to the hospital. Let me give you my phone number. It's the same hospital John's at. I'm assuming they're going to the same. That's where Canton takes everybody." And her mother said, "Please make sure that they don't let her have her bag. There are things in her bag, medicine I don't want her to have." So I said, "Okay, I will." So we got back to the house. And she got in the ambulance, and one of the EMTs asked me for her phone. So I handed that over and I said, "The mother wants to make sure that she does not have her purse because there's medication in there that they don't want her to have."
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see the defendant leave with medical personnel?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Before we move forward, I want to step back for just a moment. Did you see when the medical personnel, the first responders, lifted John from the ground and then put him on a bed?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Shortly after they moved John from the ground and brought him to the bed to bring him to the ambulance, did you go back to where John lay when you first saw him?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Why did you go back to the spot where John was lying when you first saw him?
MS. ROBERTS: When they lifted him up, there was grass underneath him and I could see his phone. So I went over and picked up the phone and the two baby blankets that were left on the ground.
MR. BRENNAN: So let me ask you — when you went back to where John was lying on the ground, you said you saw grass. There was not snow under him?
MS. ROBERTS: No, there was not.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there many inches of snow around that area?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: But none where he was lying under him?
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: You said you picked up a couple of items. Could you repeat what you picked up?
MS. ROBERTS: I picked up John's phone and two blankets — the blankets that I had Jen get out of the car.
MR. BRENNAN: What did you do with John's phone when you picked it up from the ground?
MS. ROBERTS: I put it in my pocket and gave it to a first responder when they came over. I handed it off to a first responder.
MR. BRENNAN: And the blanket you picked up, were they in the ground area or on snow as well?
MS. ROBERTS: They were — I don't remember.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. How long after you put the phone in your pocket, do you remember when you gave it to a first responder? How long you had it for?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't remember.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember the time that you picked up the phone?
MS. ROBERTS: I do not.
MR. BRENNAN: Have you seen video of that event?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And does that video have times when you went over and picked up that phone?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, but I don't remember. Somewhere around 6:12, 6:19.
MR. BRENNAN: And you don't know how long you kept it in your pocket before you gave it to a first responder?
MS. ROBERTS: I do not.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did you get in your car during that morning before you left and drove from the scene?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know if John's phone was still in your pocket when you first got into your car?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't — I don't know.
MR. BRENNAN: Was your car heated that morning? Did you keep it running?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. And was the heat — I think I kept it running the whole time. I don't even think I shut it off.
MR. BRENNAN: I see. I want to now step forward to where you left us when you said that you had spoken to John's mother, Peggy. And did you decide what you were going to do next?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, after I dropped Karen back off at 34 Fairview to get in the ambulance, I then made my way to Braintree — barely. I was on the highway. I was the only one on the highway. I spun out a couple times.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you describe what you mean by spun out?
MS. ROBERTS: Well, the driving — no one else was on the road. The driving was horrible. So, I spun out almost at the Braintree exit to get to their house. And then I got to the O'Keefe's house and I said, "We are not taking the highway back to Brockton. We're going back roads, which is a much longer way, but there's no way I was putting us in the car on that treacherous —"
MR. BRENNAN: When you went to the O'Keefe's house, you mean Peggy O'Keefe and John O'Keefe Senior's house?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. John's parents.
MR. BRENNAN: That's different than Meadows Road.
MS. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. BRENNAN: When you got to the home, did you go in?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, yes, for a second. Um, they were ready and waiting for me. They wanted to get to the hospital.
MR. BRENNAN: When you say they, can you tell us who was waiting for you?
MS. ROBERTS: Uh, John's parents. Mr. and Mrs. O'Keefe were waiting.
MR. BRENNAN: What happens next?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, Mr. O'Keefe said something about a Dr. Rice and that they were trying to warm John up. Um, we got into the car. Mr. O'Keefe got in my passenger seat. Mrs. O'Keefe got in the back seat. Mrs. O'Keefe's niece worked at Good Samaritan, so we were trying to get in touch with her to see if we were going to be allowed in, because there was still COVID restrictions. Um, John's brother was already on his way there and, uh, Mr. O'Keefe at some point said, "He's gone, Peg." And he slammed his hands on the dashboard, but they didn't actually know if he was gone yet. Um, at one point Karen called me from the ambulance. And on the phone, Mrs. O'Keefe said, "Karen, what happened?" And she said, "I left him at a party." And Mrs. O'Keefe said, "And you just left him?" And Mr.
MS. ROBERTS: O'Keefe said, "All right, that's enough. She's been through enough." Then we hung up with her. I said, "We're on our way to the hospital."
MR. BRENNAN: Let me ask you a question. When the defendant said that she left him, did she say whether she left him outside or inside?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Was the follow-up question never asked?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Was there any other conversation with the defendant at that point?
MS. ROBERTS: Not in the car, but when I got to the hospital, she called me multiple times from the hospital room.
MR. BRENNAN: We'll get to that. Okay. How long did it take for you and the O'Keefes to get to the hospital?
MS. ROBERTS: I would say maybe 45 minutes to an hour.
MR. BRENNAN: Share with us the mood in that car.
MS. ROBERTS: I think I was in shock and I think they were in shock. There wasn't — other than talking to Mrs. O'Keefe's niece trying to find out if we could go in for COVID reasons — there wasn't much talk.
MR. BRENNAN: When you finally get to the hospital, take us through your first steps. What happens?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, we finally get to the hospital. We walked in. Paul, John's brother, was there. Um, we went over to him and then, uh, Susanna, Mrs. O'Keefe's niece, came out from her office and offered to take me to the bathroom to wash up because I had blood all over my hands. Um, so I went into the bathroom and I asked her afterwards if she could take me to the chapel so I could say a prayer. So, she did. She took me to the chapel and then when I came out, she took me into her office and explained to me that Dr. Rice was going to come talk to the family, um, and take them into an office and talk to the family, and then the family would be able to go see John.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you get a chance to see John?
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
MS. ROBERTS: I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Would you be willing to tell us a little bit about what you saw?
JUDGE CANNONE: Oh.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, I waited in the waiting area. I spoke to my mom. Phone calls were coming in because people had heard what happened. Um, and Mrs. O'Keefe — the family went in to see Dr. Rice. I watched them go in. I watched them walk down a hallway. And then when they came back out, uh, Mrs. O'Keefe told me he was gone.
JUDGE CANNONE: Strike that.
MR. BRENNAN: So, without telling us what anybody said to you, please just share with us what you saw.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, I went into the hospital room. Um, and John was in a neck brace. At this point, um, there was a trail of blood going toward the gurney, or the bed that he was on. Um, this time both eyes were filled with blood. They looked like raccoons. Um, that's the only way to describe it. Um, I thought he was going to look better seeing him in the hospital because he had been worked on, but he was not. There was much more blood.
MR. BRENNAN: Were there any other ways that John looked different in the — he first brushed the snow off his face in the front of Fairview?
MS. ROBERTS: When I brushed the snow off his face, his left eye was fine. It had an ice cube on it that I pulled off, but the right eye was out to here like — like a golf ball. When I got to the hospital, both eyes were swollen — it looked like blood. They looked purple. [unintelligible]: Dan, may I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes. [unintelligible]: May I quickly approach sidebar? Okay. [unintelligible]: With the court's permission. May I approach? Yes. Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: I got to show you a photograph.
MS. ROBERTS: Yeah.
MR. BRENNAN: You recognize it?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I do.
MR. BRENNAN: How does John —
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, he did.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd ask that the camera not film that, please. I'd like to mark this as an exhibit. I will not publish it. [unintelligible] [unintelligible]: Yes. Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: Are you ready?
MS. ROBERTS: Yeah.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: After you last saw your friend John, what did you do after the hospital?
MS. ROBERTS: I'm sorry, ma'am. After the hospital?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, I drove — well, we went back into the corridor with the family and, um, Karen at one point called from the hospital asking me — she said her father was on his way and could I go over and greet him or bring him to the O'Keefes when he arrived, and she described him. Um, her father did arrive, so I went over and said, "Are you Mr. Read?" or something of that nature, and I said, "Mr. O'Keefe would like to speak to you." So, Mr. Read went over and spoke to Mr. O'Keefe and Paul, um, and John's parents and I — we didn't know next steps. We were waiting to see if we could leave or if we had to give information, and, um, eventually we were able to leave. So, I drove Mr. O'Keefe home and Paul drove Mrs. O'Keefe home to John's house.
MR. BRENNAN: Before you left John, did you take a bracelet from him?
MS. ROBERTS: When Mrs. O'Keefe and I went in to see John in the hospital, there was a bracelet that was on his right wrist. It was a blue like rubber bracelet. Um, and that bracelet was made when his sister passed away. Um, and her husband and he wore it all the time. Mrs. O'Keefe still wears it to this day.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you drive the O'Keefes back to their home?
MS. ROBERTS: I drove — no, I drove Mr. O'Keefe back to John's house and Paul drove Mrs. O'Keefe back to John's house.
MR. BRENNAN: You went back to John's house on Meadows.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you arrived at Meadows with Mr. O'Keefe, did you go in?
MS. ROBERTS: I arrived with Mr. O'Keefe and no, I did not go in.
MR. BRENNAN: What did you do next?
MS. ROBERTS: I went home.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point after you went home, did you return to the O'Keefe residence or Meadows?
MS. ROBERTS: Uh, not that day. The next day I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Where did you go?
MS. ROBERTS: I went to go see the family the next day.
MR. BRENNAN: And where were they?
MS. ROBERTS: They were at John's house at Meadows.
MR. BRENNAN: So they were then staying at John's house at Meadows.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you go and visit them?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Why did you do that?
MS. ROBERTS: Because my friend had just died and I wanted to be with the family.
MR. BRENNAN: Were there other people that were coming and going?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Describe the level of traffic of people coming and going to Meadows that next day.
MS. ROBERTS: There were people coming from all over. John's friends, um, people from Canton, people we went to high school with. There were people coming in and out dropping off food.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were there the next day, how long did you stay for?
MS. ROBERTS: Uh, several hours. Maybe like two and a half, three hours.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever see the defendant there?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: Now, you told us that you had only met Miss McCabe once before that night.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And after that night, shortly after what happened, did you speak to Miss McCabe again?
MR. JACKSON: [unintelligible]
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: How often?
MS. ROBERTS: Very often. We wanted to know what happened to our friend. So she would call me.
JUDGE CANNONE: [unintelligible] Next question, please.
MR. BRENNAN: Would you speak to her on the phone often?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Regularly?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And so things changed?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: After that moment?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you start to see her in person?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Spend time with her?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: For somebody who was not your friend, why did you at this point form this close bond?
MS. ROBERTS: I think because we went through something horrific together, we bonded over it. Mrs. O'Keefe at one point did say, "You two need to sit."
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever write down a list of things that had happened to try to remember?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were spending time with Miss McCabe, did you become friendly?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Friends?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: How close of friends did you become?
MS. ROBERTS: She, to this day, is a close friend of mine.
MR. BRENNAN: To this day?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were at the scene, when you were trying to help John, there were police officers and first responders?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Now, you're from that area?
MS. ROBERTS: Well, yes. I'm from Canton, but not that side of town.
MR. BRENNAN: And you are active in the community at all?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. Sports, children. Yes. Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know a lot of people from Canton?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you know any first responders?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Who did you know that you saw that night as a first responder? That morning?
MS. ROBERTS: I'm sorry. That morning?
MR. BRENNAN: That morning?
MS. ROBERTS: Mike Lank is my daughter's friend's father. I'm sorry.
MR. BRENNAN: It's okay. Your daughter's friend's father. Does he have children that are friends with your daughter?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, his daughter is friends with my daughter.
MR. BRENNAN: How close are his daughter and your daughter?
MS. ROBERTS: There's a group of five or six of them that are best friends.
MR. BRENNAN: Are you on a first-name basis with Mr. Lank?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: When you saw him that morning, did you recognize him?
MS. ROBERTS: I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you speak to him?
MS. ROBERTS: I said, "Mike, is that you?" He said, "Yes." That was it.
MR. BRENNAN: Are you friends with Mr. Lank's wife?
MS. ROBERTS: I am.
MR. BRENNAN: How often had you been to the house with the children or on your own before that day? Before that morning when you found John.
MS. ROBERTS: Well, often. When the kids can't drive, so when they do sleepovers or whatever, you drop them off, pick them up.
MR. BRENNAN: Your children would sleep over each other's house.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: So, you had a friendly relationship with Mr. Lank before you found John?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you continue to have a friendly relationship with him?
MS. ROBERTS: Did what?
MR. BRENNAN: Do you continue to have a friendly relationship with him?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you go to his house the day after you found John?
MS. ROBERTS: I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Who were you with?
MS. ROBERTS: Well, Jen and I had gone to the O'Keefes' house together with — I don't know if it was one or two of her daughters and both of my kids. And then when we were leaving, my daughter said, "Can you drop me off at Mike Lank's daughter's house?" So I dropped her off.
MR. BRENNAN: And did you do that? You dropped her off.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: When you dropped her off at the Lank house, did you speak to anybody?
MS. ROBERTS: His wife came out and got into the back seat just to find out how I was and how the O'Keefes were.
MR. BRENNAN: And how were you? How were they? How were you?
MS. ROBERTS: Oh, I was not well.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. And did you have a long conversation with Mr. Lank's wife?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was Miss McCabe with you?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: After you left the Lank house, you left your daughter at the house.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You remained in the car?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did you speak to Mr. Lank's wife again?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Are you friendly with her?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever try to get information, inside information about this case?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: After this case began, did you ever come to court?
MS. ROBERTS: Did I ever come to where?
MR. BRENNAN: To court.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And what was the reason you came to court?
MS. ROBERTS: To support the O'Keefe family.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did you stop coming to court?
JUDGE CANNONE: Don't answer. Yes or no?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Were you aware or watching about any type of news or publication on this?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: As you were watching and learning information, did you begin to contact people at the district attorney's office?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
MR. BRENNAN: Form of the question.
MR. BRENNAN: Did that include victim witness advocates?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did it include law enforcement assigned to the case?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. BRENNAN: Who did you contact?
MS. ROBERTS: Specific names?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes.
MS. ROBERTS: Steve Nelson, my victim advocate; Yuri Bukhenik, who was a state trooper; and at one point I contacted Michael Morrissey's office.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember at any time being interviewed by police officers or state police about this case?
MS. ROBERTS: At my house on January 29th.
MR. BRENNAN: So that same day you found John, you were interviewed?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember who interviewed you?
MS. ROBERTS: I do not.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Do you remember your mental state at that time?
MS. ROBERTS: I was not well. It was in the evening at some point.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you interviewed at a later time by any other law enforcement?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Where were you at that next interview?
MS. ROBERTS: I think I was at Jen's house. We were making a timeline together when two law enforcement showed up to question her, but I happened to be there, so they took us in separate rooms and questioned both of us.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you sober at that point?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And what was your mental state then?
MS. ROBERTS: Still — we hadn't even had a funeral, so I was still — I couldn't believe what was happening.
MR. BRENNAN: And after John's passing, did you still continue to help out with the children?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: With the court's permission, I would like to play an exhibit that's already in evidence.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: It's Exhibit 4. Before you start it, ma'am, I'm going to show you a video from the scene that night.
MS. ROBERTS: Okay. Yes, please.
MR. BRENNAN: Miss Gilman, is this on? Thank you. Could we start at 6:09:50, please? [video audio]: What happened? [video audio]: Does he have a problem? Huh? Could you stop there, please? Miss Roberts, do you see yourself in that video?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And where were you in that video?
MS. ROBERTS: I'm over near the flag pole.
MR. BRENNAN: What were you doing in that video before you stood up?
MS. ROBERTS: I think I was picking up the phone and the blankets at that point.
MR. BRENNAN: You see the first responders getting there?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay, continue please. Is that you with the fur on the hood?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. That's you in the middle of the street.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I'm to the right of the car. [video audio]: What's up?
MR. BRENNAN: Could you stop for one moment, please? Ma'am, you see the other two people in the middle of the screen right now? Do you know who they are?
MS. ROBERTS: That's Karen and Jen McCabe.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you see the proximity or the closeness between them?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You are not close to Jen McCabe in this video?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Is there a reason why?
MS. ROBERTS: I didn't really know her and Karen was running around like you saw. I didn't want to be near her. I just found my friend.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Could you continue please to 6:15? You can let it run, please. Stop, please. Thank you, Ms. Roberts. Is this when the first responders were moving John from where he was laying?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Please continue. Could you continue to watch the area near the flag pole, please?
MS. ROBERTS: Oh.
MR. BRENNAN: Stop. Please. That last 15 or 20 seconds of video, did you pay attention to that, Miss Roberts?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. That was the moment that I picked up the phone and blankets. Not before. I don't know what I was doing before when you asked me.
MR. BRENNAN: And that location where you picked up the phone and blankets, was that where John was lying?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, it was.
MR. BRENNAN: And is that where you saw the ground that did not have snow?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, it was.
MR. BRENNAN: At that point, had you put the cell phone in your pocket?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: If there's no objection, with the court's permission, I'd like to watch a little more of the film, but if we can double speed it so we get an opportunity to view it, I want to get to another moment in it.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Any objection?
MR. JACKSON: No objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Thank you.
MR. BRENNAN: Around 6:17 would be fine. Let's go. Stop, please. The person in the blue jacket, do you know who that is on the right side of the screen?
MS. ROBERTS: That's Jen McCabe.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you — well, you can't see you now. Do you know where you are at this point?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know where I am.
MR. BRENNAN: Continue, please. Excuse me. What are you doing, Miss Roberts?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, cleaning off my car.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you please stop? Did you mention at some point you went back and the defendant and Miss McCabe were in a car?
MS. ROBERTS: They were in a police car at some point.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you do anything with them when they were in that car?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, at one point Karen asked us to say a prayer, to pray. So we said a prayer.
MR. BRENNAN: Is it before or after this moment on the video? Do you know?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. If you could continue, please. Thank you. Stop, please, just for a moment. Do you know where you are at this point, Miss Roberts?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay, if you can continue, please. Was that you walking by, Miss Roberts?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, it was.
MR. BRENNAN: I'll note the time is 6:21:22. Do you know where you walked?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I do not.
MR. BRENNAN: Behind this car, this dash cam view. Say that again. Are you behind the view of the dash cam?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, I think — it looks like I went over to the right of the vehicle.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Stop, please. This is for the record, 6:23:08. At 6:23:08, are you still beside or behind the view of this car?
MS. ROBERTS: I believe so.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you know where Miss McCabe is at this point?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Or the defendant?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Please continue. Miss Gilman, when it reaches 6:24:18, if you would stop again at this time. 6:24:18. Are you within view of this camera angle?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Where do you think you are in relation to this camera angle at this point?
MS. ROBERTS: I'm still either to the right or behind the dash camera.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you see the defendant or Miss McCabe in this view?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: And this is at 6:24:18. Could you continue to 6:26:25, Miss Gilman? Did you notice the first person that came from the right and the second person that are not law enforcement?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, that was myself, and I think that's Jen McCabe.
MR. BRENNAN: 6:26:25. Continue, please. And do you know who that is on the right with the police officer?
MS. ROBERTS: That was Karen.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know where the cell phone is at this point? Mr. O'Keefe's cell phone.
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know. I could have handed it to a first responder at this point, or it could still be in my pocket. I'm not sure.
MR. BRENNAN: Miss Gilman, if you could next stop at 6:34:48. Was that you walking by in the street?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: What are you doing? Do you know who you're speaking with?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Brennan, at this point, can we pause this and take our morning recess, please?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes, your honor. Pause, please. Thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: Thank you. Folks, why don't we take 15–20 minutes? All right. Please, jurors, close your notebooks, leave them on the chairs, and follow me.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Do you know where you are at this point, Miss Roberts?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Fast forward just a little bit more, please. Were you in the car?
MS. ROBERTS: I just got out of the car.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you remember if your car was warm?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Stop. 6:34:36. Do you see yourself?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. I just got in the driver's side of my car.
MR. BRENNAN: And at that point, do you remember whether you still had John's cell phone or you had given it to a first responder?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't remember.
MR. BRENNAN: Between you having it in your pocket and giving it to a first responder, did you put it or place it anywhere else?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you take it out of your pocket and place it in the elements at all?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: So, it was either in your pocket or in the hands of a first responder?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you for your time.