Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveCarl Miyasako - Direct/Cross/Redirect
233 linesCOURT CLERK: Do you swear that the testimony you shall give to the court and the jury in the matter now pending shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. MIYASAKO: I do.
JUDGE CANNONE: Good morning. Go ahead, Mr. Lally.
MR. LALLY: Thank you. Good morning, sir.
MR. MIYASAKO: Good morning.
MR. LALLY: Could you please introduce yourself to the jury, spelling your last name for the court?
MR. MIYASAKO: Carl Miyasako. M-I-Y-A-S-A-K-O.
MR. LALLY: And what do you do for work, sir?
MR. MIYASAKO: I'm a senior DNA analyst at a forensic laboratory called Bode Technology.
MR. LALLY: And where is Bode Technology located?
MR. MIYASAKO: Lorton, Virginia.
MR. LALLY: And where did you go to school?
MR. MIYASAKO: Virginia Commonwealth University.
MR. LALLY: And what degrees did you receive there?
MR. MIYASAKO: I have a bachelor's of science in forensic science.
MR. LALLY: Now, following your education, where did you go to work?
MR. MIYASAKO: Bode Technology.
MR. LALLY: And how long have you worked there?
MR. MIYASAKO: I've been employed at that laboratory for over 11 years.
MR. LALLY: And when you joined Bode Technology, what was your position and title that you were initially hired for?
MR. MIYASAKO: Initially I started off as a DNA technician.
MR. LALLY: And when did you become an analyst?
MR. MIYASAKO: After a few years at the laboratory, I became a DNA analyst.
MR. LALLY: What is the difference at Bode Lab between a technician and an analyst?
MR. MIYASAKO: A technician mainly does laboratory work, and an analyst is allowed to analyze data and write reports.
MR. LALLY: Now could you please describe for the jury the training that you underwent initially as a technician?
MR. MIYASAKO: So I observe people perform all the tasks that I was training in, and then I'm supervised performing tasks by a qualified individual, and then I do competency tests where I'm performing things independently.
MR. LALLY: Now is there a continuing educational component of Bode?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And could you please describe for the jury what that entails?
MR. MIYASAKO: So continuing education just allows analysts or technicians to keep up to date with current topics within the community and future technological advancements.
MR. LALLY: Now could you please describe for the jury what type of lab Bode is?
MR. MIYASAKO: Bode is a private accredited forensic laboratory.
MR. LALLY: And where do your cases come from?
MR. MIYASAKO: Our cases come from different agencies throughout the country — law enforcement agencies, medical examiners, other laboratories as well.
MR. LALLY: And is that purely on a statewide basis, national basis, or something else?
MR. MIYASAKO: National basis.
MR. LALLY: And what is the difference at Bode Lab or Bode Technology between a DNA analyst one and a DNA analyst two?
MR. MIYASAKO: The type of case load and different cases being assigned to these individuals.
MR. LALLY: Now, what is your current role at Bode Labs?
MR. MIYASAKO: My current role is a senior DNA analyst.
MR. LALLY: And what is a senior DNA analyst, and what do you do in that role?
MR. MIYASAKO: So a senior analyst provides expertise or leadership in at least one discipline within the company. Senior analysts report challenging cases, are independent of other analysts, and also train other analysts as well.
MR. LALLY: Sir, I'm going to ask you to keep your voice up, please. And sir, that microphone in front of you is adjustable. You can put it as close to yourself as you feel comfortable with. Thank you. Now specifically with reference to DNA analysis, can you explain to the jury first in general terms how that analysis is performed at your lab?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yeah. So it starts with receipt of evidence, and then it goes through the laboratory through different procedures up until we develop that DNA profile and it gets interpreted and analyzed.
MR. LALLY: Now, is the Bode lab accredited?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And by whom is it accredited?
MR. MIYASAKO: We are accredited by ANAB, the ANSI National Accreditation Board.
MR. LALLY: Now are there steps taken within your lab at Bode to prevent against contamination?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yeah, we have protocols to monitor contamination and to also prevent contamination.
MR. LALLY: Now, also at the lab, is there a review process, and can you sort of describe your role as it applies as a senior DNA analyst to that review process?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yeah, so all cases go through a review process. So after — let's say the reporting analyst completes a case — it goes into submission for a technical review. During that review process the entire case file is looked over. So it's looked over to see if everything was done per protocol, if it's something that I or anyone else in the lab would have done, if any necessary reprocessing steps were taken. Data is reviewed. If there were comparisons, that's something that a reviewing analyst would also do and see if they come to the same conclusions as the other analysts.
MR. LALLY: Now, just again in general terms, can you explain to the jury just a little bit more in detail as far as the protocols that a technical review is concerned with, and sort of how a technical review is able to establish that the testing was done in comportment with that?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yeah. So — as me — if I were doing a technical review, I would look over the entire case file. Did the processing steps happen? Were they per protocol? Is also something that I would have done in this case? If data is ultimately generated, I also do that comparison. Based on that comparison, what did I come to the conclusion? Was that the same as the other analyst? Did we agree? Were stats done? Were they done the same way I would have done it? Essentially all conclusions would have to be in alignment between both analysts.
MR. LALLY: And so when you're doing a technical review, you're looking at or doing your own sort of comparisons, coming to your own conclusions and running your own statistics. Is that correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes, I'm doing the comparisons myself and seeing if I also agree and come to the same conclusions.
MR. LALLY: Now, as part of the accreditation process, do you undergo any sort of proficiency testing?
MR. MIYASAKO: We do.
MR. LALLY: And can you explain to the jury that proficiency testing process at Bode Technology?
MR. MIYASAKO: So an outside organization sends tests to a laboratory. Everyone participating in these proficiency testing completes their assignment. It gets submitted back to the organization and they review the results to see if it matches
MR. LALLY: Up with the expected results on their end. And how often do the analysts at your lab undergo proficiency testing?
MR. MIYASAKO: Twice a year.
MR. LALLY: Now turning to you specifically, what areas do you specifically undergo proficiency testing in?
MR. MIYASAKO: I do testing within short tandem repeats, STRs, Y-STRs, mitochondrial DNA analysis.
MR. LALLY: And have you successfully completed each of those proficiency tests that you've taken?
MR. MIYASAKO: I have.
MR. LALLY: Now, could you explain to the jury what are positive and negative controls, and sort of what is the difference between the two of those?
MR. MIYASAKO: So throughout processing we introduce controls such as a positive and negative control. A positive control is just a known template that we introduce during processing. It measures the efficacy of the testing and to see if we develop the known profile that we are expecting, just to make sure that testing went as it should have. A negative control on the other hand monitors for any type of contamination and cleanliness of reagents and to detect if dna is introduced — so we don't expect data, so once that aligns with it then we know that the reagents used were good.
MR. LALLY: Now sir, are you familiar with some mitochondrial DNA testing that was performed at Bode on lab case number CCA2416-0023 pertaining to this defendant and Karen Read?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And the lab received those items for testing from the Massachusetts State Police Crime Laboratory. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And did you also, or do you also receive a corresponding agency case number from that submitting agency?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And in this case was the Massachusetts State Police Crime Laboratory lab number 22-02184?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And what type of work did Bode Labs do on CCA2416-0023 with respect to mitochondrial DNA testing?
MR. MIYASAKO: So we received two evidence items, a hair sample and a reference sample, and we were asked to type these for mitochondrial DNA.
MR. LALLY: Now, could you explain to the jury the process in general terms used to analyze that type of evidence?
MR. MIYASAKO: So it's a similar process that you may have heard already for nuclear DNA or STRs. So after DNA extraction — that's where we isolate and release DNA from the sample — it goes through amplification processing. This is where we employ the polymerase chain reaction or PCR technique. So we create numerous copies of a targeted section within the DNA. This is just so we have enough DNA to generate a DNA profile. Following that we do what's called quantification. So we determine and generate an estimate of how much DNA is present within the sample. Following that we do what's called sequencing. So we used a technique called Sanger sequencing. So bases within the sample — the order of bases are determined — and bases are essentially building blocks of the DNA.
MR. MIYASAKO: So everyone has four bases in their DNA and we refer to these bases by the letters A, G, T and C. After sequencing we go through what's called capillary electrophoresis. And so these bases are sequenced individually and the data is interpreted.
MR. LALLY: Now was there a known standard done in this case?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And did another analyst test and report the results from the known blood standard from Mr. John O'Keefe? What was that? Sorry. Did another analyst test and report the results from the known blood standard from Mr. John O'Keefe?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And again with reference to mitochondrial DNA testing, what items did the Bode lab test for?
MR. MIYASAKO: A hair shaft sample and the known DNA standard.
MR. LALLY: Now, can you please describe to the jury again in general terms the process of comparison between a known standard and an evidence sample?
MR. MIYASAKO: So we generate data from typically the evidence sample first, just to see that we get comparable data, and then we process the known reference standard. Then we look at the two DNA profiles of these different samples and we compare them. Based on the data, are we seeing that we can or cannot exclude the individual — the reference donor — as being a source of the evidence sample.
MR. LALLY: What is autosomal DNA?
MR. MIYASAKO: Autosomal DNA is like nuclear DNA. It's something that you may be more — when thought of in forensics — traditionally STR short tandem repeats.
MR. LALLY: And what is mitochondrial DNA?
MR. MIYASAKO: Mitochondrial DNA is a different type of DNA from nuclear DNA. Nuclear DNA — you get half of your DNA from your parents, so mom and dad — whereas mitochondrial DNA gets entirely inherited from mother to child.
MR. LALLY: What is the difference between the two as far as where it's located in reference to the nucleus of the cell?
MR. MIYASAKO: So with STRs there are basically two copies per cell, whereas with mitochondrial DNA there are several copies per cell. So there's more abundance in mitochondrial DNA.
MR. LALLY: Now how does that apply to an extract from a hair sample?
MR. MIYASAKO: So for hair samples we typically categorize these — hairs with roots and rootless hair samples. So with hair samples, typically in the shaft end, there's more abundance of the mitochondrial DNA versus nuclear DNA, where nuclear DNA tends to be degraded or not present in high enough amounts.
MR. LALLY: What does PCR stand for?
MR. MIYASAKO: PCR stands for polymerase chain reaction.
MR. LALLY: And can you please describe the PCR method to the jury?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes. So that's the process where we create specific targeted sections of the DNA over and over. So we're replicating DNA using the source material as a template. This is because we want enough copies of that DNA to generate the end result of a DNA profile. So it would be similar to, say, like a copy machine. You start with a single piece of paper and you make many many copies from that piece of paper.
MR. LALLY: Now sir, you alluded to it I believe earlier in your testimony, but just specifically as to this topic, what is DNA sequencing?
MR. MIYASAKO: DNA sequencing is where we determine the order of bases within that sample.
MR. LALLY: And how is DNA sequencing used specifically in mitochondrial DNA testing?
MR. MIYASAKO: So we use that to generate the sequence specific to that sample, so that when we get the end result data we compare it to a known standard or a common reference standard, and any differences from that common standard get reported as that individual's mitochondrial profile.
MR. LALLY: Now how is the testing different between autosomal versus mitochondrial DNA testing?
MR. MIYASAKO: A lot of it does have some similarities, but the difference comes with STRs being more of a length fragment testing and mitochondrial DNA is more of a base nucleotide DNA testing.
MR. LALLY: Now as far as the running of the DNA, how is that sort of physically done, or what kind of tools are you using specific to mitochondrial DNA testing?
MR. MIYASAKO: So we use different instrumentations such as a thermocycler to do the PCR step, and then we also use what's called a genetic analyzer at the end step of capillary electrophoresis.
MR. LALLY: Is there a certain type of gel that's used as far as visualization of that profile?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes. So during the quantification step, we use what's called a yield gel and we get a visual presentation of how much DNA is present within that sample.
MR. LALLY: When you say a visual presentation, what type of instruments are you using to get that visualization?
MR. MIYASAKO: So we use a gel and a UV light and a camera to capture essentially what we refer to as a band.
MR. LALLY: And what does that band look like?
MR. MIYASAKO: Generally if there is presence of mitochondrial DNA within that sample it emits a bright band on this gel. If there isn't anything then we don't observe that band.
MR. LALLY: And what kind of instrumentation does your lab utilize in mitochondrial DNA testing?
MR. MIYASAKO: We use a thermocycler, 3130 genetic analyzer as well.
MR. LALLY: Could you spell that please?
MR. MIYASAKO: The thermocycler: T-H-E-R-M-A-L C-Y-C-L-E-R.
MR. LALLY: And then what were the digits after?
MR. MIYASAKO: The genetic analyzer is a 3130.
MR. LALLY: And if you could, could you please describe what those instruments do or what they're used for specifically within the process of the mitochondrial DNA testing?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes. So instrumentation is common within laboratories for automation purposes. So the thermocycler helps with the PCR stages, and then the genetic analyzer helps with the separation of the individual bases and then generating that end result data where the analyst will interpret the data.
MR. LALLY: What is a D-loop?
MR. MIYASAKO: The D-loop is the control region.
MR. LALLY: And how does that D-loop factor into this type of analysis?
MR. MIYASAKO: So with mitochondrial DNA analysis we analyze certain regions within the D-loop or the control region, and we refer to these as hypervariable regions — HV1 and HV2.
MR. LALLY: And what does the D-loop have to do with certain variabilities within the human population?
MR. MIYASAKO: So this region is a non-coding region within the mitochondria. So it can allow for mutations because it doesn't — it wouldn't affect the mitochondria's functions. Because of this highly variable difference within this region, it's useful for determining different maternal populations.
MR. LALLY: Now did the Bode lab also perform mitochondrial DNA testing on the known standard from John O'Keefe?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And is that mitochondrial DNA testing the same for the known standard of John O'Keefe as it is as you've been describing with reference to the evidence sample?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yes.
MR. LALLY: And what is then done generally in the comparison of those two profiles?
MR. MIYASAKO: So once we develop the profiles from these two separate sources, a comparison is done to each other and we look at it to see if the profiles are consistent — essentially matching ...with each other, and seeing if an exclusion or inclusion can be made.
MR. LALLY: And did you then perform your own comparative analysis of those two mitochondrial DNA profiles from the hair extracts from the rear panel of the defendant's vehicle and that of the known standard of Mr. O'Keefe?
MR. MIYASAKO: I did.
MR. LALLY: And what is your opinion or conclusions that you arrived at from that comparative analysis?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. Hold on. Ask it differently.
MR. LALLY: Mr. Miyasako, what conclusions did you come to from that comparative analysis between those two standards — that John O'Keefe could not be excluded as being a source of the hair sample? Now can you expound a little as far as your conclusion is concerned? What — what is that, what does that mean?
MR. MIYASAKO: Uh, yeah, if I may refer to my report.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. MIYASAKO: Um, so whenever we have a conclusion of a probable inclusion, like in this case where I could not exclude John O'Keefe as being a source of the hair sample, we do a statistical analysis to give weight to that probable inclusion. Um, so in this case, using a database, and with 95% confidence, at least 99.895% of the population can be excluded as being a source of that hair sample.
MR. LALLY: Let me ask you just in general terms — that database you're using, is it referred to as EMPOP? Is that correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. LALLY: And what is an EMPOP?
MR. MIYASAKO: Um, so it's a searchable database where we search profiles in the database, and essentially to see how common or rare that profile would be seen in the population. Um, with EMPOP, in our laboratory, we searched three main population groups within the United States: African-American, Caucasian, Hispanic. Um, and so the general goal is just to see how rare would that profile be within these populations.
MR. LALLY: And so what conclusions did you come to with reference to the consistency of the hair sample versus Mr. O'Keefe's sample in that EMPOP database?
MR. MIYASAKO: Um, with 95% confidence, at least 99.895% of the population can be excluded as being a source of the hair sample.
MR. LALLY: Now you made reference in your testimony a moment before about a confidence interval. What is that?
MR. MIYASAKO: Uh, yeah. So whenever we attain statistical data, we use a confidence interval or upper limit frequency. Um, this is just like a range where the true value of said profile is. But we generally want to report like a conservative end to avoid any false inclusions. Um, so it's at least 99.895% that the majority of the population can be excluded, but it could be higher — but at the lower end, it would be at least 99.895%.
MR. LALLY: And what confidence interval in your conclusion does this consistency between the hair sample profile from the rear quarter panel of the defendant's vehicle have to Mr. O'Keefe's mitochondrial DNA profile?
MR. MIYASAKO: Um, so it's — with 95% confidence, 99.985% of the population. So the majority of the population could be excluded. Um, however, with John O'Keefe and his maternal relatives, they could not.
MR. LALLY: Thank you, sir. I have nothing further.
MR. JACKSON: Good morning, Mr. Miyasako.
MR. MIYASAKO: Good morning.
MR. JACKSON: Uh, couple of quick questions. Mitochondrial DNA, as you've explained, is different than autosomal DNA in pretty significant ways. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Uh, correct.
MR. JACKSON: The — what we think of as traditional nuclear DNA — that's autosomal DNA. That's the DNA that we derive from mom and dad, comes down to the child. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Mitochondrial DNA, by contrast, is simply the maternal line, excluding the dads. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: So my mitochondrial DNA has nothing to do with my father, everything to do with my mother. Is that right?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yeah. Mitochondrial DNA gets inherited from the mom to child.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So a male like John O'Keefe, for instance — the known sample that you were working with — shares the exact same mitochondrial DNA as, for instance, his mother. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Um, his mom and any other maternally related individuals. You just took the words right out of my mouth, and that's my next question. Stop being smarter than me.
MR. MIYASAKO: Uh, it's going to be a tough task.
MR. JACKSON: Um, it's also the exact same mitochondrial DNA for his grandmother. Right?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And let's — let's move the lineage off the trunk of the tree and move it onto branches. For instance, if his mother had two children — John and a sister — his sister would also have the exact same mitochondrial DNA. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And now staying on that branch of the tree, going out to a leaf — if his sister had children, those children would have the exact same mitochondrial DNA. Correct? So another way of saying that — his maternal niece, his maternal nephew would have the identical mitochondrial DNA as John O'Keefe. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. When you indicated that John O'Keefe is included in the population of those who match that profile, that does not mean that you're determining that the hair that you analyzed came from John O'Keefe, does it?
MR. MIYASAKO: No. With mitochondrial DNA analysis, it's not unique to an individual. Um, compared to traditional STRs, or short tandem repeat, that could be unique to an individual. But with mitochondrial DNA, it's not unique to an individual, but more so a maternal lineage.
MR. JACKSON: All right. So, Mr. Miyasako, very importantly, you're not sitting here saying that that hair belonged to John O'Keefe.
MR. MIYASAKO: Um, I'm saying that John O'Keefe cannot be excluded as a source of the hair sample, as well as his maternal relatives.
MR. JACKSON: We're speaking in negatives. I want to speak in a positive. You are not saying that that hair belongs to John O'Keefe, are you? Yes or no?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Are you suggesting to these jurors that the hair that you analyzed belonged to John O'Keefe?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Are you telling the jurors to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty that the hair that you analyzed belonged to John O'Keefe?
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. [garbled — sidebar follows]
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Miyasako, going back to my question — you're not saying that the hair belonged to John O'Keefe, correct? That's not what you're saying.
MR. MIYASAKO: Um, what I'm saying is, based on the genetic data obtained from the hair sample and the genetic data obtained from the known reference sample of John O'Keefe, I could not exclude John O'Keefe as being a possible source of the hair sample. In addition, all maternally related individuals could not be excluded as being a source of the hair sample.
MR. JACKSON: Another way of saying that, Mr. Miyasako, is — to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, you cannot say that hair belonged to John O'Keefe specifically, can you? Yes or no?
MR. MIYASAKO: It's no — with mitochondrial DNA, you can't say that it is, per se, an individual person. So it's more so the maternal line.
MR. JACKSON: Because the hair could have come from his mom, it could have come from his maternal nephew, or anybody in his maternal line. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: If they also had access — for instance, access meaning if his maternal nephew lived in the home with him where the SUV was stored, it's just as reasonable that the hair came from him. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: Your analysis does not tell us when the hair got to where it was found. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: Your analysis does not — does not tell us how the hair got to where it was found. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: And mitochondrial DNA does not reveal anything about the hair's color or age or texture. Nothing like that.
MR. MIYASAKO: Uh, not on the analysis that we performed.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. So, for all you know, that hair could have been placed where it was found by somebody else.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: You're not telling this jury how the hair got where it was ultimately found and recovered.
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct. Correct. Our testing is just based on the evidence provided to us and the comparisons done between the two different evidence.
MR. JACKSON: And in short, you can't say that the hair specifically came from John O'Keefe either, can you?
MR. MIYASAKO: Uh, with mitochondrial DNA, I can't say that it is specific to an individual.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. Including John O'Keefe.
MR. MIYASAKO: Uh, in this instance, John O'Keefe's profile was consistent with the hair sample.
MR. JACKSON: That's not what my question was, Mr. Miyasako. We could go round and round. I realize that you're saying it's consistent, but it's also consistent with his nephew, right?
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct. I can't exclude maternal relatives because mitochondrial DNA is not specific to an individual, but just the maternal line.
MR. JACKSON: Right. So you're not saying it was John O'Keefe's hair.
MR. MIYASAKO: Uh, I can't say whether it is, but the profile obtained from John O'Keefe is consistent with that hair sample.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Jackson, Mr. Jackson, let's move on.
MR. JACKSON: The reason you can't say that it's John O'Keefe's hair is because it also matches everybody in his maternal line. That's what we're getting down to. Correct?
MR. MIYASAKO: Yeah. With mitochondrial DNA, again, it's not unique to an individual, but their maternal lineage.
MR. JACKSON: And if the maternal nephew lived in the same residence and had access to the same SUV, couldn't exclude him either, right? So, in short, Mr. Miyasako, you cannot tell this jury when the hair got to where it was.
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: You can't tell this jury how the hair got to where it was found.
MR. MIYASAKO: Correct.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained.
MR. JACKSON: And you certainly cannot tell the jury that the hair belonged to John.
MR. MIYASAKO: Right.
JUDGE CANNONE: Sustained. I think we've got it.
MR. JACKSON: Thanks, your honor.
JUDGE CANNONE: Mr. Lally, anything?
MR. LALLY: So, Mr. Miyasako, including the EMPOP, the statistics, and the confidence interval — what is your conclusion in reference to the comparative analysis from mitochondrial profiles from the hair sample from the rear quarter panel of the defendant's vehicle and the known standard of John O'Keefe?
MR. MIYASAKO: Um, based on the genetic data obtained for the two different samples, I could not — could not exclude John O'Keefe's known standard's profile being consistent... with the hair sample's profile, and with 95% confidence, at least 99.895% of the population can be excluded as a source of the evidence.
MR. LALLY: Thank you, sir. One final question. Do you also maintain that 95% confidence?
MR. MIYASAKO: Um, yeah. So again, with uh maternal population —
JUDGE CANNONE: Finish your answer. Go.
MR. MIYASAKO: With the maternal populations, I can't exclude anybody maternally related to John O'Keefe as well.
MR. LALLY: Thank you very much, sir.