Commonwealth v. Read — Trial ArchiveKerry Roberts - Direct (Part 1)
549 linesMR. BRENNAN: I now call Kerry Roberts.
COURT CLERK: Raise your right hand. [oath administered — inaudible/garbled] ...the truth and nothing but the truth.
MS. ROBERTS: So, yes.
MS. ROBERTS: K-E-R-R-Y.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right, Mr. Brennan, whenever you're ready.
MR. BRENNAN: Miss Roberts, good afternoon, ma'am.
MS. ROBERTS: Good afternoon.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you please introduce yourself to this jury?
MS. ROBERTS: Hi, my name is Kerry Roberts.
MR. BRENNAN: Ms. Roberts, where do you live?
MS. ROBERTS: I live in Canton, Massachusetts.
MR. BRENNAN: How long have you lived in the area for?
MS. ROBERTS: I was raised in the Boston area, North Shore, South Shore. I went to high school in Braintree and I moved to Canton about 12 years ago.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you live alone?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I live with my husband and two children.
MR. BRENNAN: How old are your children presently this day?
MS. ROBERTS: My son is 13, my daughter is 15.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you work?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Without identifying specifically where, can you share with us a little bit about what you do?
MS. ROBERTS: I'm an executive assistant, and I've been with my company for 18 years.
MR. BRENNAN: Ma'am, if you could just move the microphone just a tiny bit closer. Thank you very much. You have two children. You're married?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And you live in the area?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: I want you to tell us whether you know a person by the name of John O'Keefe.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Would you be willing to share with us when you first met Mr. O'Keefe?
MS. ROBERTS: Well, I went to high school with John in Braintree. He played soccer, I played soccer, so we probably hung out in middle school, but we went to two different middle schools. And then I hung out with him more in high school. He was a year older than me, his sister was two years older than him in school, and his brother was younger. So at some point I was in high school with each of his siblings.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you at some point become friendly with John O'Keefe?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you tell us about that?
MS. ROBERTS: When his sister Kristen passed away, and then her husband Steve passed away, John — they lived in my neighborhood. John took over for the children and moved into my neighborhood as well.
MR. BRENNAN: When John took in the children, did you offer any assistance or any help to him?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. When John — well, before John was even going to take over, he was going to potentially move in with his brother-in-law and the children to help out. And then when his brother-in-law passed away unexpectedly, John took over and I jumped in because I was a friend from high school that he knew and he had all kinds of people helping, but he sort of said, "I'm going to lean on you for right now, 'cause I know you best." And I knew his parents and his siblings. And so my — I introduced him to my husband and we jumped in. It was, you know, preschool drop-offs, preschool pickups for my son and his son. And just from then until the time of his death. We were just friends, very close friends, and we hung out all the time.
MS. ROBERTS: The children hung out all the time, and he was on the emergency contact list at my children's school to call if something had happened.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you close friends before he took over the care of the children?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I wasn't very close friends with him then.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you close with his family before he took over care of the children?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did your friendship with him develop after he took care of the children?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: You mentioned you have a son.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I do.
MR. BRENNAN: And is your son the same age as John's nephew?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there any common interest or activities that engaged your son with John's nephew?
MS. ROBERTS: Well, they went to in-home daycare together. They went to preschool together. They went to pre-K together and they went to elementary school. Um, they played baseball together since they were T-ball. My son plays hockey. Patrick tried hockey. He didn't like that. So we spent a lot of time at the baseball fields together.
MR. BRENNAN: As you spent a lot of time together and had mutual care of children, did your relationship with him grow closer?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And can you share a little bit with the jury how close you became?
MS. ROBERTS: Well, John was a bachelor and he didn't have any children of his own. So when he took over for the children, he sort of, you know, leaned on us to kind of guide him and, you know, all the things to do — if there's someone with a headache, you know, if there's an ear infection — or, you know, he had his mom and dad also helping as well, but I was right up the street. So if I would go to BJ's I would call and say, you know, can I grab you anything? Um, if I would go to Walmart, you know, any of the places I would go, I would call and say do you need anything? Can I help you? Can I grab something for you? And he did the same. We just sort of all chipped in and helped.
MR. BRENNAN: As your friendship grew, um, could you tell us a little bit about your relationship with John?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, John and I were very close. We spoke on the phone and hung out. He became very close with my husband as well, cuz he was right down the street. Um, but we just had a friendship, a very close friendship.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us about the day-to-day activities and how you would try to assist John with the children.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, well, John moved across town. Um, I don't remember when. I forget how many — Patrick, I think, was in fifth grade or fourth grade. And I would take him home with me on Wednesdays because John would be working. So it was more of a, you know, if he was at my house and my daughter needed a ride to the other side of town, he would take her with him. Um, we were just very close friends. We did a lot together. We would do baseball tournaments together. We would have drinks together. We would, you know, all the things friends do.
MR. BRENNAN: As you grew closer to John and helped with the children, did you become closer with his family?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And who specifically did you become closer with?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, Mrs. O'Keefe and Mr. O'Keefe. Um, his parents. Um, and Paul I would see from time to time, but not a lot — he doesn't live in Canton. But Mr. and Mrs. O'Keefe would be there all the time to help as well. Um, so — and Mr. O'Keefe would take my son and Patrick, the nephew, out to Dunkin' Donuts all the time.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you tell us a little more about the collective effort of other people, including his family, helping John raise these children?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, there was a lot of us that jumped in to help. It was not just me. Um, there was a lot of Kaylee's friends' parents um that jumped in and helped for Kaylee, um, his niece, and Patrick. There was a lot of us that helped out with Patrick. All of the community all came together to help him because there was this guy that just lost his sister and brother-in-law and he stepped in to take care of these two kids and he didn't really know what he was doing at first, but he got the hang of it pretty quickly.
MR. BRENNAN: You have a son that shared a lot of interests with his nephew.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: He also had a niece.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you spend more time helping with his nephew or with his niece?
MS. ROBERTS: With his nephew.
MR. BRENNAN: Were there other people in the community you knew of who spent more time helping with his niece?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And who was that?
MS. ROBERTS: Jen McCabe.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you know Jen McCabe?
MS. ROBERTS: I had met her once. John got a discount at Reebok. So he would— well, he would take anyone with kids up with him to get um shoes like sneakers for back to school or whatever. So one day he did take Jen and I up to Reebok, but other than that, I had never — I'd never talked to her on the phone. I never saw her out. Her children are older than mine, so we never really crossed paths.
MR. BRENNAN: As it relates to the night of January 29, 2022, how much earlier was it that John took you out with the children and Miss McCabe out with her children to get sneakers? How many years before that?
MS. ROBERTS: Oh, years — like six or seven, maybe.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. And from that time you met Jen McCabe in the years past, did you ever spend time with her again before January 29th, 2022?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I did not. I didn't know her.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you friends with her?
MS. ROBERTS: I was not.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you speak on the phone with her?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: So, other than that one meeting, you were strangers.
MS. ROBERTS: Yep. That was the only time I knew her. I knew of her. She has four girls. Um, but I didn't know her.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, um, as you were part of John's life, did you learn that he was dating a person by the name of Karen Read?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you see that person here in the courtroom today?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you point her out and describe an article of clothing that she's wearing?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, she has a black suit jacket, seated at the front table.
MR. BRENNAN: When did you first become familiar or know about Miss Read?
MS. ROBERTS: July, I think it was, of 2020. Um, John — we were having people over and so I invited him and he said, "I'm going to bring Karen over." And I was like, I don't know who that is, but okay. He assumed I knew cuz he had been dating her for a little bit, but it was COVID, so we didn't see him very often during that time. So, um, Karen came over that night. And this is early 2020. I think it was — it was summer, so I think it was — I think it was around June or July.
MR. BRENNAN: Briefly, just tell us a little bit about where and the circumstances of meeting John and Karen for the first time.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, they came over to my house and we hung out on the back porch. Um, had some drinks, there was music, kids were around. Um, just a nice normal summer night. We had other people over as well.
MR. BRENNAN: Over the next coming months, uh, did you become more familiar with the defendant?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see her more often?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And could you generally describe for the jury how you learned more of her and saw her more often?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, she would take care of the kids a lot. Um, mainly — well, not mainly Patrick, but not mainly Kaylee either. She helped out a lot with the kids. So if we were at baseball, she would come to all the baseball games. Um, or she would drop off or pick up my son or Patrick if they were going to the golf course or the driving range.
MR. BRENNAN: Would you see her during events with your son and John's nephew?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, we did baseball tournaments.
MR. BRENNAN: And so when you go to baseball tournaments, would that be an away, overnight type trip?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, one of them was down the Cape.
MR. BRENNAN: How often would you spend time with John and the defendant?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, not that often together, but John would stop by by himself. My husband would go out more with John, but I didn't spend much time with the two. Not a lot of time outside of the baseball field.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you become friends with the defendant?
MS. ROBERTS: We were friendly.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever spend time alone to go out or socialize?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: Would you see her when you would pick up or drop off kids, or she would pick up or drop off kids?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever speak to her on the phone?
MS. ROBERTS: Uh, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: In relation to what?
MS. ROBERTS: Coordinating with the kids — pickup, drop off — mainly Ryan and Patrick, not about Kaylee.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you ever spend any important dates or times or holidays with John and Miss Read?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: I want you to take us ahead to January 28th, 2022.
MS. ROBERTS: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: On January 28, 2022 — do you remember that day?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Generally, what do you remember about the day of January 28, 2022?
MS. ROBERTS: There was a blizzard coming and it was my — my daughter's friend's birthday. So we were going to be going out celebrating that night, but we did it on the early side because there was a blizzard coming.
MR. BRENNAN: What was your plan for that evening?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, we went bowling. Um, we got dinner, then we went bowling, and then I came home because I wanted to be in before the snow started.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you communicated in any way with John that day?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, he texted me. My son had had an issue at school. Patrick had been dismissed, I think, for a doctor's appointment. Um, so he did text me to see how my son was doing.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you simply text or did you get a chance to speak to him that day?
MS. ROBERTS: I believe we just texted.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you go out that night after bowling?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: Was your husband home?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Did he go out that night?
MS. ROBERTS: He did. He went out with John.
MR. BRENNAN: And do you know where he was planning on going?
MS. ROBERTS: Uh, they went to McCarthy's, a bar in Canton Center.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you been to McCarthy's before?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Can you just briefly describe what McCarthy's is?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, it's a restaurant bar. There's a large bar in the middle with seating on the left and the right. It's right in the center of town.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember about what time your husband went out?
MS. ROBERTS: Uh, I do not remember exactly. I don't even — I don't know if I got home and then he went out, or if he was already gone when I got home. I don't remember. But it was around — he went out around the same time that I arrived home, which was on the earlier side.
MR. BRENNAN: How many times had you been to John's home, would you say, over the past couple of years before this night?
MS. ROBERTS: Oh, many. Many times. Many times.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you familiar with the house and the driveway?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: May I approach?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Should I return to the podium and ask the questions?
JUDGE CANNONE: You can ask them from there.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you, ma'am. I'd ask you to take a look at that photo in front of you. Do you recognize what is in that photo?
MS. ROBERTS: That is John's house.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that a fair and accurate depiction of how his house looks?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, it is.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd like to move this into evidence, please.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Any objection?
MR. JACKSON: No objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Exhibit 66.
MR. BRENNAN: May I publish to the jury, your honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. Thank you. You can take it down. I've shown you a second photo. Do you recognize what's in that photo?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. That's John's driveway.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that a fair and accurate depiction of how John's driveway appears?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, it is.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd move... ...that into evidence.
MR. JACKSON: No objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Exhibit 67.
MR. BRENNAN: May I publish?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. I'm showing you a third photo. Do you recognize what's in that photo?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And could you share with the jury what's in that photo?
MS. ROBERTS: It's the side of John's house looking up from the driveway.
MR. BRENNAN: Is there anything you notice on the side of the house?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, the lights or the Ring camera?
MR. BRENNAN: Are you guessing or do you know that's a Ring?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I know. I know there's one there.
MR. BRENNAN: And how do you know that?
MS. ROBERTS: Because I got a Ring camera and I could look and see who was at my door, and then he said, "Why didn't you tell me about these things?" So, he... ...bought one.
MR. BRENNAN: I move to introduce this photo.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: No objection.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. May I publish, your honor?
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Miss Roberts, with the laser pointer, could you just point at the picture and show where the Ring camera is on this screen?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Whichever one you can do.
MS. ROBERTS: Okay. Why isn't it working?
MR. BRENNAN: It's on.
MS. ROBERTS: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: Well, you know what? Rather than use the pointer, why don't we describe? Can you describe where you see the Ring camera on that picture?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, it's in where the two lights are under the top window.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay, thank you. We can take that down, please. How many times would you guess you had been over to his house?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know. More than... ...50,000. I don't even know. A lot. It was weekly.
MR. BRENNAN: That night you told us that your husband went out to meet John at McCarthy's bar.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, he did.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you remember your husband coming home that night?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you have any memory of about what time he returned?
MS. ROBERTS: I'm guessing, but somewhere around 10, 10:30.
MR. BRENNAN: I'm not going to let you guess. Do you know?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know. It was around 10 or 10:30. I can't be exact.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see him come home?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: What was the forecast for that night and the next morning?
MS. ROBERTS: There was a blizzard coming.
MR. BRENNAN: Was that part of the decision-making of going out or staying home?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: At that time when your... ...husband came home, did you look outside? Do you have any memory of what the weather looked like around 10:00, 10:30?
MS. ROBERTS: I remember sitting — I remember the snow started to fall somewhere around 12, 'cause I remember looking out the window and I could see it starting, and that was the beginning of the snowfall, I believe.
MR. BRENNAN: So, what was the weather like out that night?
MS. ROBERTS: The weather that night, I think, was fine. It was cold, but it wasn't snowing yet.
MR. BRENNAN: I see. I want to move forward. At some point that night, did you go to sleep?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you sleep through the night, Miss Roberts?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, did you wake... ...up?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I did.
MR. BRENNAN: I want you to tell us what was the reason that you woke up.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, I got a phone call at 5:00 in the morning from Karen Read.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you expecting a call?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I was not.
MR. BRENNAN: Had you ever received a call at 5 in the morning from Miss Read before?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Share with us what happened that morning. What did you hear?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, Karen called and — the first thing she said was, "Kerry, Kerry, Kerry, John's dead." And then she hung up.
MR. BRENNAN: And then when she said that, did you have a chance to have a conversation with her?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: Describe her demeanor when she said that.
MS. ROBERTS: She was yelling loud enough — my name, I think it was three... ...times. It might have been two. Um, she was yelling loud enough that she woke my husband.
MR. BRENNAN: Your husband was sleeping next to you?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, he was.
MR. BRENNAN: Was she loud — yelling, screaming?
MS. ROBERTS: She was — yes, she was very loud. She was screaming.
MR. BRENNAN: After she said Kerry, Kerry, Kerry, John's dead, did you know what she meant?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: And did you say this was around 5:15?
MS. ROBERTS: This was at 5:00. She called me at 5 on the dot.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. After she hung up, what did you do?
MS. ROBERTS: I — well, I was half asleep still. I didn't know what was going on. So, I started to get up and I think I tried to call her back. I know I tried to call her back, but I don't know... ...exactly when, because I was like, "What? What?" So, um — my husband said, "What was that?" I said, "I don't know. Something's going on. I don't know what's going on. That was Karen." And then I tried to call her back. I know I tried to call her back, but I don't know if she answered or if she called me back the next time I spoke to her.
MR. BRENNAN: After you or she called you again, did you have another discussion or did you hear her say something else the second time you spoke to her?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. The second time she said, "Um, I think something happened to John. I think he got hit by a plow. He didn't come home last night. Kaylee was home. He would never leave her... ...by herself, and I was not supposed to stay at the house last night." So, I — I think something happened to him.
MR. BRENNAN: Did she say anything about drinking?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes. She said, "We drank so much I don't remember anything from last night." And I said, "Okay, where are you now?" She said, "I'm driving." And I said, "You need to go home. Where's Kay?" And she said, "At home." I said, "You need to go home and be with Kay. She cannot handle this." Thinking, you know, her uncle's missing. Um, I said, "You're going to get a DUI. You need to go home."
MR. BRENNAN: Was there anything else in the conversation that she said to you at that time?
MS. ROBERTS: She said, "I'm going to drive... ...to your house. Would you drive my car?" And I said, "Yes." So, at that point, I started to get dressed. I turned on the automatic car starter so it would warm up. Um, told my husband — you know, I don't know what's going on, John didn't come home — and so I think my husband tried to call him and I tried to call him. And my husband said, "You're not going anywhere. It's a blizzard. He's probably on somebody's couch." And I was like, "I know, but she's really upset. I'm just going to go. She wants to come here. I'm going to drive her car." And then I went out to my car and sat and waited for her.
MR. BRENNAN: When you called John,... ...did you get any response?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: As you were waiting for the defendant, did you make any other phone calls?
MS. ROBERTS: I did. When I was in the car, I thought to myself, well, she thinks he got hit by a plow. I'm going to call the police and see if there were any accidents, or maybe something happened. They brought him in. Um, and I spoke to the officer who said, "No, nothing of that sort. I've been here all night." And then I called the Good Samaritan Hospital and Milton Hospital to see if they had anybody that was taken in in an accident.
MR. BRENNAN: When you called the police to look for Mr. O'Keefe, did you call 911?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I called the non-emergency line.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know if that call was recorded?
MS. ROBERTS: I believe so.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd like to introduce an exhibit.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording plays] [recording - roberts]
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : All right. No problem.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Good luck.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Okay. Thank you.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording ends]
JUDGE CANNONE: Byebye.
JUDGE CANNONE: : Um — we talked to him, but I mean, as of right now, it's more, you know, he just didn't come home last night.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Is this common sometimes with him?
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : No, no, no, no. That's — that's kind of why she's more freaking out.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Um, so I think I called the other hospital. I said I'll call police just to make sure, you know...
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : I wasn't there. I was [unintelligible] — uh, we haven't — we didn't get any calls or anything like that. Um, nobody was arrested or anything like that. Um, you know, all righty.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : All right.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Well, thank you.
JUDGE CANNONE: : Yeah.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : And even my husband had been out with him earlier, but then he obviously came home, and he has got to be with niece and nephew, 'cause their parents passed away.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Okay.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : And so she has to be home and she's nervous because — yeah. So she's like — they have — and I said, okay, well, the area hospital — I personally think he probably picked him up. I don't — I don't know.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Yeah. He didn't drive last night?
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : No, no.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Okay. I mean, yeah. I mean, again, it's more — [unintelligible], you know, she would have to...
JUDGE CANNONE: : Can't believe my friend's boyfriend did not come home last night. They were at Waterfall and now she is calling me because she doesn't know where he is.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : You didn't pick anybody up by the name of John O'Keefe, did you? John O'Keefe.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : [unintelligible] No.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Uh, he probably got a ride and passed out. I don't know. But yeah. No, we didn't — pick up anybody else or anything like that. Um, and where does he live?
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : He lives on — he lives on [unintelligible].
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Okay. In where — you said your...
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - officer]
JUDGE CANNONE: : ...girlfriend?
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
JUDGE CANNONE: : Yeah.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Any objection?
MR. JACKSON: No objection.
MR. BRENNAN: When you called the police, what was your level of worry at that point?
MS. ROBERTS: I wasn't super worried. I mean, he didn't come home, but they were out drinking, so I assumed — like my husband said — he's probably on somebody's couch.
MR. BRENNAN: The second call you had was Miss Read. Can you describe her demeanor in that second call?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, she was frantic. She was frantic. I mean, she was — she couldn't find John, so she was very worried.
MR. BRENNAN: How soft or loud was that phone call?
MS. ROBERTS: It wasn't as loud as the first... ...one, but it wasn't a regular conversation.
MR. BRENNAN: With the court's permission, I'd like to play the exhibit of the call.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
JUDGE CANNONE: They were out having drinks and then she left and expected him to come home at some point and he never did.
JUDGE CANNONE: ...[unintelligible] call in the patient.
PARENTHETICAL: [recording - roberts]
MR. BRENNAN: Were you in your car when you called the police station and the hospitals looking for John?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I was.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know at that point whether anybody else had called the police station?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I don't know.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know at that point if anybody else had called any hospitals?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know.
MR. BRENNAN: How long did you wait in your driveway?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know. I'm sorry. Maybe like 7 minutes, 8 minutes.
MR. BRENNAN: What were the conditions like out that morning?
MS. ROBERTS: It was bad. It was in the middle of a blizzard.
MR. BRENNAN: When you were outside in your car in the driveway waiting, describe the lighting conditions for us.
MS. ROBERTS: It was still dark out. It was 5:00 in the morning and it was snowing, so it was not great.
MR. BRENNAN: How was the visibility?
MS. ROBERTS: Not great. It was coming down really fast at that point.
MR. BRENNAN: You said that night when you went to bed the snow just started. Had snow accumulated at that point?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I don't think so. It was just starting to stick.
MR. BRENNAN: I'm sorry. That was the night before. But at this point when you were in the driveway, had the snow accumulated?
MS. ROBERTS: Oh, yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know how many inches it was?
MS. ROBERTS: No, I don't.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Enough that the plows are out. As you were waiting for the defendant, did she arrive at your house?
MS. ROBERTS: She did not.
MR. BRENNAN: What happened?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know if I called her or she called me, but eventually we connected on the phone. And she said — I said, "Where are you? I'm — I'm waiting." And she said, "I'm at Jen's house." And I said, "Jen, who?" And she said, "McCabe, she's going to drive my car." And I said, "Okay, well, listen, they don't want cars on the road cuz it's so bad. I'm already in my car. I'll come there to Jen's house. Stay there and we'll follow each other and we'll go back and drop your car off." Did you look in the house for John? Could he just be in the house passed out somewhere? And she said no. She hadn't looked in the house. So I said, "Okay, now we're going to — I'm going to come to Jen's. We're going to take the car home, drop it off.
MS. ROBERTS: We'll check around the house, and then I don't know what the next step at this point was. I just wanted to check the house."
MR. BRENNAN: At the time you directed that you were going to meet at Jen McCabe's house and then drive to John's house, was there any suggestion by the defendant where she wanted to go?
MS. ROBERTS: I didn't know where Jen's house was. I knew the street. I had dropping Kaye off or picked her up a few times. So I said stay on the phone with me — I don't know which house it is. And so when I got there, I pulled in the driveway and there was some conversation —
MR. BRENNAN: Can I back you up and just ask you a little bit about the drive there? I don't mean to interrupt. When you left your house, you talked a little bit about the weather conditions. How long did it take you to get from your home to Jen McCabe's?
MS. ROBERTS: Oh, it's quick. Probably 4 minutes.
MR. BRENNAN: What was the driving like?
MS. ROBERTS: It was not good driving. That's why I didn't want two cars on the road.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you have any difficulty driving through that storm?
MS. ROBERTS: No. I mean, it was treacherous, but I was in four-wheel drive. I have an SUV.
MR. BRENNAN: You mentioned you didn't know exactly where Jen McCabe lived. Had you been there to drop off John's niece before?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, but I didn't know which house it was because when I picked her up before, she was either getting out of the car at the driveway or waiting at the end of the driveway. So I couldn't — I didn't know which house it was.
MR. BRENNAN: I think I interrupted you, but were you telling us that as you drove to Jen McCabe's house, you were on a Bluetooth on an open conversation with her to help with directions?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, Jen and Karen were in Karen's car and I was on the phone essentially with both of them.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know what type of vehicle the defendant was driving at that time?
MS. ROBERTS: A Lexus SUV.
MR. BRENNAN: As you drove over to Jen McCabe's home and you had some guidance finding it, did you hear any conversations in that open line with — or even any statements by the defendant?
MS. ROBERTS: I remember when I — I pulled in behind her car in Jen's driveway and at some point Karen said my tail light, my tail light, and I looked and Jen had the — she must have had the brake on, cuz you could see that there was a missing tail light.
MR. BRENNAN: When you say missing tail light, was it merely cracked?
MS. ROBERTS: No. There was a piece missing.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you see that as you were parked right behind the defendant's SUV or Lexus?
MS. ROBERTS: She must have been applying the brakes because you could see it, but there was a lot of snow. When you saw that the tail light had a missing piece, did you say anything? No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you think anything of it?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: How long were you parked behind the defendant's Lexus while it was parked in Miss McCabe's driveway?
MS. ROBERTS: Not long. We were just — I — I pulled in and then — we stopped and then the next plan — at some point in that conversation as well or maybe on the ride, because now we're heading to John's house to drop a car off. I pulled out of the driveway. Jen pulled out and I followed behind all the way to John's house. And at some point Karen said, "I left him at Waterfall," and I heard Jen say, "No, I saw you pull up in front of my sister's." Was anything else said about the broken tail light? No.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. You followed Miss McCabe?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Where did you go?
MS. ROBERTS: To John's house.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you arrive?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: I want to ask you some questions about when you arrived and what you did next. Okay. When you arrived at Mr. O'Keefe's home, you're in two separate cars. Who pulled into Mr. O'Keefe's driveway first?
MS. ROBERTS: Jen pulled Karen's car in first.
MR. BRENNAN: So, Miss McCabe was driving the Lexus, correct? And the defendant, was she in the passenger seat?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: After you both pulled in, tell us what happens next.
MS. ROBERTS: We went — I wasn't sure if it was — at some point Karen showed us the tail light up close, but I didn't know if it was when we arrived or when we left. But we went into the house to look for John.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. When the Lexus was parked by Miss McCabe in Mr. O'Keefe's driveway, was it facing the street or facing away?
MS. ROBERTS: Facing — where the basketball hoop is. Not facing the street.
MR. BRENNAN: I'd like to approach.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: I'm going to show you a photograph. Do you recognize what's in that photograph?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, that's John's driveway. That's Karen's car on the left and John's car on the right.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you recognize both those cars?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, I do.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you recognize that photo as a fair depiction of his driveway?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you recognize it as a fair depiction of the motor vehicles?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Now, when you went there that night and you pulled in behind Miss McCabe and the defendant, is there any differences between how that area looked when you pulled in as opposed to that photo?
MS. ROBERTS: Well, it was the early hours of the morning, so it was dark out and there was much more snow coming down.
MR. BRENNAN: I'm so sorry. You want to?
MR. JACKSON: Nope.
MR. BRENNAN: Other than the snow and the lighting, is there any other differences?
MS. ROBERTS: Nope.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. I'd like to introduce this as an exhibit, please.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. There's no objection, Mr. Jackson?
MR. JACKSON: No objection.
MR. BRENNAN: With the court's permission, I'd like to publish.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: And to help us understand, you see on the left is the house.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: There's a motor vehicle in the middle of the driveway, but it's the vehicle to the left.
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And whose vehicle is that?
MS. ROBERTS: That's Karen's.
MR. BRENNAN: Is that where it was parked that night when you went into the house?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: In the motor vehicle to the right — you recognize that?
MS. ROBERTS: That's John's car or SUV.
MR. BRENNAN: Thank you. You can take that down. I'm showing you a second photo.
MS. ROBERTS: Okay.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you recognize that photo?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: What is it?
MS. ROBERTS: It's the back of Karen's car.
MR. BRENNAN: Does it look like a fair and accurate depiction of her car as it appeared that morning in the early morning hours to you?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you notice anything that's distinguished in that photo?
MS. ROBERTS: The piece that's missing in the tail light.
MR. BRENNAN: Which one?
MS. ROBERTS: The right passenger rear.
MR. BRENNAN: Do you know — I'm sorry, do you know when this photo was actually taken?
MS. ROBERTS: I do not.
MR. BRENNAN: Although you don't know when it was taken, is that a similar depiction to your memory of how it appeared that morning at 5?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Or a little after 5?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: I move to introduce this exhibit.
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
MR. BRENNAN: With the court's permission, I'd like to publish.
JUDGE CANNONE: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: We could take that down, please. After you arrived at Mr. O'Keefe's house, what was the plan to go inside? What were you looking to do?
MS. ROBERTS: To go inside and look and see if he was passed out somewhere. So we went in through the garage and I started looking. Jen — I think Jen ran upstairs to Kaylee's bedroom and I just started looking through the living room. The basement door was locked from the inside, so I knew he wasn't in the basement. And then I checked the other living room. He has a big house. Then I went to the top of the stairs to check his bedroom.
MR. BRENNAN: As you looked around, what was your mood?
MS. ROBERTS: What was my mood?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes. Were you calm?
MS. ROBERTS: I mean, I was worried. So, we were —
MR. BRENNAN: At this point, Jen had already established that they went to her sister's [unintelligible]. Okay. I had already asked the question better. My apologies. How many rooms did you look through in
MS. ROBERTS: Um, one, two, five or six.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see Miss McCabe looking in rooms as well, searching?
MS. ROBERTS: She went upstairs when I was looking downstairs.
MR. BRENNAN: At some point, as you were looking, did you see the defendant?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Was she looking with you?
MS. ROBERTS: She was in John's room.
MR. BRENNAN: What was she doing?
MS. ROBERTS: She was just standing there when I came up to the top of the stairs.
MR. BRENNAN: Did she say anything?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Did she do anything?
MS. ROBERTS: No.
MR. BRENNAN: Was she searching?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know. She was in the room.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. What happened next?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, at some point, Jen earlier had said, "Well, let's not talk about what was said."
JUDGE CANNONE: Okay. Let's just talk about the plan at this point. Miss Roberts, I know that — I'm just going to ask you to wait for a question, because we can only get one person at a time. So, next question, Mr. Brennan.
MR. BRENNAN: Again, my apologies. And so as you're looking through the house, you don't find John. What happens next?
MS. ROBERTS: The plan was to go back to Jen's sister's house.
MR. BRENNAN: Who made that plan?
MS. ROBERTS: Karen wanted to go back there.
MR. BRENNAN: Well, tell us a little bit about that. How did that conversation come up, and share with the jury what was said?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, in the car ride to Meadows, Karen said, "I left him at Waterfall." And Jen said, "No, I saw you pull up in front of my sisters." So then Karen said, "We need to go back to your sisters." And I said, "No, we're going to go to Meadows and we're going to drop the car and we're going to look there. Then we'll go there if we don't find him."
MR. BRENNAN: When you were at the house — Meadows, John O'Keefe's house — and you didn't find him. Was there any further conversation about what the next steps would be?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, I said, "Let's go. He's not here." But I didn't know where Jen's sister lived. So, we got into the car. Um, Jen was in the passenger seat. I was driving my car. Karen was in the back seat.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you begin?
MS. ROBERTS: And then Jen was giving directions.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you begin your way towards Meadows?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: And it was Miss McCabe who was giving directions?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: As you began driving to head towards Meadows, in addition to trying to drive, were you doing anything like looking or searching?
MS. ROBERTS: Well, yeah, we were looking — I was looking on both sides of the road in case he was walking home.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Did you see Miss McCabe searching?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes, she was looking out as well.
PARENTHETICAL: [Bench conference]
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. So, Miss Roberts, we're going to have you come back tomorrow. Okay. Jurors, we're going to break for today. So, we're going to send you home. The same three cautions that I'll tell you every single day. Please do not discuss this case with anyone. Don't do any independent research or investigation in this case. If you happen to see, hear, or read anything about this case, please disregard it. Let us know. Please be extra careful with your social media. We'll see you tomorrow morning. All right. Please hold your books. Put them on your seats.
MR. BRENNAN: Describe in a little detail what you saw Miss McCabe doing.
MS. ROBERTS: She was looking out the window as we were driving. So was I as I was driving.
MR. BRENNAN: And where was the defendant during that time?
MS. ROBERTS: She was in the back seat.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there any conversation, comments, statements?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, well, she would be in the back seat and then she would be in between Jen and I. In the back seat and then in between Jen and I. She was just very frantic.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Was she saying anything specific?
MS. ROBERTS: I mean, there was conversation on the way there.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Was she looking as well? Did you see her looking out the windows like you and Jen?
MS. ROBERTS: I don't know if she was because she was in the back seat.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. As you drove to Meadows, what was the visibility? The same, or better, or worse?
MS. ROBERTS: No, it was poor.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you make your way towards Meadows?
MS. ROBERTS: I did.
MR. BRENNAN: As you finally got to Meadows, was the house on your left side, your side, or on the other side?
MS. ROBERTS: Are you talking about Fairview or Meadows?
MR. BRENNAN: I'm sorry. Fairview.
MS. ROBERTS: Okay. The Fairview house came up on the left-hand side before you got to the house.
MR. BRENNAN: Is there a tree line between that house and the house before it?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, yes. There's a cluster of trees and bushes.
MR. BRENNAN: All right. Take us back. I want to talk about that morning. As you're driving and approaching Fairview, tell us what you hear, what you see, what's happening.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, Jen's giving directions and it was really bad driving. I was white-knuckling because it was getting slippery. Karen wouldn't put on her seat belt, because she was in between us again the whole ride and then sitting back, but she was worried because we weren't finding John.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you having words?
MS. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. BRENNAN: Tell us.
MS. ROBERTS: I said to Jen, "Where are we heading?" And she said, "Uh, my sister lives on Fairview." And I said, "Where is that?" She said, "Off of Chapman." I said, "Oh, okay, near Spring Lane."
MR. BRENNAN: At some point Bella's mom came up. Tell me what that means.
MS. ROBERTS: I didn't know who it was, but it was one of Kaylee's friends — Bella's mom. Um, well, the directions — at some point Karen was talking about Bella's mom to Jen, saying she never liked me. I didn't know who this woman was that they were talking about, but apparently Bella's mom lived near where Jen's sister lived on Fairview.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you learn any more about the relevance of Bella's mom?
MS. ROBERTS: No. Oh, well, I think John had dated her.
MR. JACKSON: Objection.
JUDGE CANNONE: I'm going to allow it.
MR. BRENNAN: So, as you approach Fairview, tell us what happens.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, as we approach Fairview — at the house. You mean the house or the street?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes. Yes. The house. The house.
MS. ROBERTS: Um, Jen said, "My sister's house is right up here." And I said, "Okay." And as we approached the house, Karen from the back seat is now screaming, "There he is. There he is. Let me the f*** out of this car." And she's now kicking the back door to get out.
MR. BRENNAN: When you heard the defendant scream, "There he is. There he is," and started kicking the car door, did you see anything?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see anybody?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you look?
MS. ROBERTS: I looked.
MR. BRENNAN: Was there anything that impeded your ability to see far?
MS. ROBERTS: No, it was just snow.
MR. BRENNAN: How far could you see when she was yelling, "There he is"?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, how far could I see?
MR. BRENNAN: Yes.
MS. ROBERTS: I mean, the visibility wasn't great.
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. Was she pointing or giving any direction?
MS. ROBERTS: No, she just said, "There he is."
MR. BRENNAN: Okay. What happens next?
MS. ROBERTS: And then I unlocked the car. I looked over. I didn't see anything. And I unlocked it so she could get out of the back seat. I looked at Jen and I said, "She's crazy." And then I turned around and watched, and she ran over to a mound of snow.
MR. BRENNAN: When she started running, before she got anywhere, did you see anything at that point?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: Were you looking?
MS. ROBERTS: I was looking. She said, "There he is." So looking around to see where he is.
MR. BRENNAN: And you could see nothing?
MS. ROBERTS: I did not.
MR. BRENNAN: Did you see her run around or directly?
MS. ROBERTS: She ran right over to the mound of snow.
MR. BRENNAN: Could you tell what the mound of snow was from the car?
MS. ROBERTS: Um, once she got to it, yes — once she got to it, you could tell it was a mound of snow. That was the length of — what? A body.
JUDGE CANNONE: All right. I'm going to stop you there, Mr. Brennan. I need to see counsel for just a minute, please.
JUDGE CANNONE: All motions — Jimmy?, those motions [unintelligible] to enforce compliance with the court's April 16th ARCCA discovery order, and the motion to continue. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry, Chrissy. I didn't mean to do that.